Pre-Game Talk: Preds @ Jets - Fri Oct 17 - 7PM

[jetkarma*]

Maurice = Noel.

Uhh no , NOT EVEN CLOSE.

 

[Board Bard]

Thorburn and Peluso weren't competing with Petan for a job. Right or wrong those 2 players are on 1 way contracts and are expected to be willing to fight as necessary. You can argue that has no place in the game and I would probably agree with you. But Petan was not competing with them or going to supplant their role on the team. Petan was competing for the seemingly available winger spot in the middle 6 and was deemed not ready. You do realize how exceedingly rare it is for a 2nd round pick to make the NHL while they are still junior eligible? Last season a total of 2 players drafted in the second round played a total of 24 games as 19 yo. This season not a single 19 yo 2nd round pick has played a single shift.

These decisions are made with input from all levels of the organization. Every indication was there was a place for Morrissey on the team if he proved to be ready. And apparently he wasn't. And Lowry plain and simple earned a spot. He is 2 years older and has a more NHL ready game. One of the biggest knocks on the Jets organization when they first came to Winnipeg from Atlanta is that they needlessly rushed their prospects. I for one I'm glad we changed course and the organization is being run closer along the lines of the the more successful teams.

With Thorburn obviously the go-to guy for moving up to the third line, and in fact playing up the roster with Kane's injury (an injury on the top three lines was inevitable), yes, he and Petan were directly competing. Maurice chose the same old useless slug that has helped the team get nowhere, instead of some skillful fresh blood that might have helped the team get somewhere. Maurice will have to live with his failed decision at the end of the season when the Jets miss the playoffs again. Problem is, so will the fans.

 

[KingBogo]

With Thorburn obviously the go-to guy for moving up to the third line, and in fact playing up the roster with Kane's injury (an injury on the top three lines was inevitable), yes, he and Petan were directly competing. Maurice chose the same old useless slug that has helped the team get nowhere, instead of some skillful fresh blood that might have helped the team get somewhere. Maurice will have to live with his failed decision at the end of the season when the Jets miss the playoffs again. Problem is, so will the fans.

You honestly believe a 31 yo 6'3" 235 lbs face puncher on a brand new 3 year $ 1.3 M 1 way contract was in direct competition with a 5'9" 165 lbs 19 yo junior eligible (delayed ELC) player? Considering we have a coach who is old school and wants not just one face puncher around but 2.

 

[Board Bard]

You honestly believe a 31 yo 6'3" 235 lbs face puncher on a brand new 3 year $ 1.3 M 1 way contract was in direct competition with a 5'9" 165 lbs 19 yo junior eligible (delayed ELC) player? Considering we have a coach who is old school and wants not just one face puncher around but 2.

Thorburn playing on the third line = Petan playing on the third line.

Except they are not quite equal. One player is useless. One player is not.

 

[KingBogo]

Thorburn playing on the third line = Petan playing on the third line.

Except they are not quite equal. One player is useless. One player is not.

I'm not saying Petan isn't a better offensive player, and one day will be a much better player, and I don't like moving up Thorburn to the 3rd line either. But in no way were they competing for the same roster spot. Thorburn was on the team no matter what. The organization just over paid him on a 3 year $ 1.3 M 1 way deal. Petan needed to beat out the slew of NHL minimum range guys on 1 year 2 way contracts (Halischuck, Galiardi, O'Dell, Klingberg, Cormier & Albert) There were 2 spots and Halischuk and Galiardi earned them for now, though I think we will eventually see O'Dell up with the team. But due to age, contract status, junior eligibility etc. Petan needed to clearly come out on top...which the Jets organization didn't believe to be the case.

 

[ps241]

As long as Thor is playing up I don't think we are taking this seriously or if we are we have a priority problem. If they think Thor is a good guy for team chemistry who am I to debate as long as he sees limited action in a sheltered role on the 4th line.

Mort you were wondering why talk is turning to chips, the oilers, and we are wandered away from the substantive debates from the summer (all be it often circular in fashion).........speaking for myself when I look at Thor on the 3rd line I think maybe I should just relax, dim the lights, not look too close, and be a fan that doesn't worry so much. I should just try to enjoy the journey and not be so darn results oriented.

 

[CaptainChef]

You honestly believe a 31 yo 6'3" 235 lbs face puncher on a brand new 3 year $ 1.3 M 1 way contract was in direct competition with a 5'9" 165 lbs 19 yo junior eligible (delayed ELC) player? Considering we have a coach who is old school and wants not just one face puncher around but 2.

For sure Mo is obsessed with size and thats about the only way that Thorb constantly gets shuffled into the top 9. If anybody based this on skill, Thorbs would be warming the bench so give us a better explanation that explains why Thorbs was repeatedly used in the top 9 last year (when guys like O'dell should have been given that spot) and he's back to that same crap again. If it isn't a size obsession, its a soft tank -- take your pick

 

[Aavco Cup]

Maurice = Noel.

The way they run a practice is definitely not the same.

 

[jetkarma*]

The way they run a practice is definitely not the same.

One is a bonafide , successful NHL head coach ,one isn't.

Were you at yesterday's practice? Looked like Frolik was definitely working on his skating and it was more than a maintenance day when he missed the previous practice.

 

[jetkarma*]

For sure Mo is obsessed with size and thats about the only way that Thorb constantly gets shuffled into the top 9. If anybody based this on skill, Thorbs would be warming the bench so give us a better explanation that explains why Thorbs was repeatedly used in the top 9 last year (when guys like O'dell should have been given that spot) and he's back to that same crap again. If it isn't a size obsession, its a soft tank -- take your pick

I neither as both are not correct.

 

[Aavco Cup]

One is a bonafide , successful NHL head coach ,one isn't.

Were you at yesterday's practice? Looked like Frolik was definitely working on his skating and it was more than a maintenance day when he missed the previous practice.

Yeah I was there but didn't see that from Fro. Was that after the formal practice? I left pretty early yesterday. Buff was the one who didn't look right to me. He warmed up very gingerly and at the end was holding his hip area during the last drill and was the first one off the ice.

 

[KingBogo]

For sure Mo is obsessed with size and thats about the only way that Thorb constantly gets shuffled into the top 9. If anybody based this on skill, Thorbs would be warming the bench so give us a better explanation that explains why Thorbs was repeatedly used in the top 9 last year (when guys like O'dell should have been given that spot) and he's back to that same crap again. If it isn't a size obsession, its a soft tank -- take your pick

I don't know why Thorbs is moved up to the 3rd line...it sure isn't my choice. My posts were a debate that Petan and Thorburn weren't competing for the same roster spot. The Jets have made it clear they value Thorburn more than what is clearly visible from the cheap seats. But as soon as he signed a 3 year $1.3 M 1 way contract he was going to be a Jet and absolutely nothing was going to change that. If Petan made the team it wasn't going to be at the expense of Thorburn. It would have been over either Halischuk or Galiardi who were the guys on 1 year 2-ways that would have been sent down.

 

[CaptainChef]

I neither as both are not correct.

ok whats the answer then - why is he forever getting put into skill positions? Mo has says he wants scoring from all three lines and then he does this - explain

 

[CaptainChef]

I don't know why Thorbs is moved up to the 3rd line...it sure isn't my choice. My posts were a debate that Petan and Thorburn weren't competing for the same roster spot. The Jets have made it clear they value Thorburn more than what is clearly visible from the cheap seats. But as soon as he signed a 3 year $1.3 M 1 way contract he was going to be a Jet and absolutely nothing was going to change that. If Petan made the team it wasn't going to be at the expense of Thorburn. It would have been over either Halischuk or Galiardi who were the guys on 1 year 2-ways that would have been sent down.

Well I don't care how you swing this, with Thorbs being signed for 3 years its preventing them from doing anything with him (other than bench or play). Therefore for the next 3 years he is blocking one person who belongs to be playing on the team from doing that. Whether its Petan or whoever, he serves little purpose on this team other than as a block

 

[KingBogo]

Well I don't care how you swing this, with Thorbs being signed for 3 years its preventing them from doing anything with him (other than bench or play). Therefore for the next 3 years he is blocking one person who belongs to be playing on the team from doing that. Whether its Petan or whoever, he serves little purpose on this team other than as a block

I guess...I just happen to prefer discussing the Jets in the context of what the actual circumstances are rather than what I wished they were. Because I wish bigger then Thorbs not being on the team. I wish Toews would have told the Hawks to go to **** when they offered him $10.5 per year and said he planed on going to UFA and sign with the Jets at a home town discount. I wish LA drafted Bogo over Doughty who was now our #1 D. I wish we bought out Pavs and obtained a true #1 goalie. And I wished we won the draft lottery every single year we didn't make the playoffs. But that doesn't change the fact Thorburn is likely to retire a Jet and tomorrow he will be in the lineup. And just about everyone will complain about him.

 

[Jet]

Agree, Joe. While this is only game 4 of the season, this is a really important game, in my opinion. It's one of those early season, defining games. No the season won't be over if we lose, obviously. But I think if we want to be that team who is going to take the next step, make the playoffs, I think this team needs to be taking those 2 points from the Nashville's of the world at every opportunity we can get. If we can't, we really don't stand a chance and this group needs to be reassessed.

For me, I am looking for a mentality out of the Jets this team this game that speaks a few words... "we are better than you, we are going to take these 2 points, we are the team that is going to make the playoffs this year". To me, we need that attitude in each and every game but most certainly against teams such as Nashville, Colorado, Dallas, Minnesota, Vancouver and certainly vs. Edmonton, Calgary, Arizona, etc.

I think this is a game where we will see what kind of coach we have in Maurice. We had a short 3 game test, and a nice 4 game stretch at home to practice and adjust. We will see if PM can get the boys back on track.

 

[CaptainChef]

I guess...I just happen to prefer discussing the Jets in the context of what the actual circumstances are rather than what I wished they were. Because I wish bigger then Thorbs not being on the team. I wish Toews would have told the Hawks to go to **** when they offered him $10.5 per year and said he planed on going to UFA and sign with the Jets at a home town discount. I wish LA drafted Bogo over Doughty who was now our #1 D. I wish we bought out Pavs and obtained a true #1 goalie. And I wished we won the draft lottery every single year we didn't make the playoffs. But that doesn't change the fact Thorburn is likely to retire a Jet and tomorrow he will be in the lineup. And just about everyone will complain about him.

Ok... but you talk about actual circumstances vs pie in the sky wishes. Two of the above are things the Jets should have done something about if anything made any sense -- keeping Pavs & re-signing Thorbs forever. The rest are pure fantasy. So do you wish to live in a fantasy world or do something about the things we could and should do better with.

Sometimes, it seems like the Jets management live in their own little fantasy world as well. Certainly to the ordinary fan who follows the team closely, how do you make sense of the way they have and continue to deal with Pavs and Thorbs. [mod]

 

[AWSAA]

4 years in and Chris Thorburn is not only still on the team, but playing top 9 minutes.

Another wasted season rolls on by. There are no guarantees our patience will be rewarded. Ladd, Frolik, Byfuglien, and Kane could all be gone in less than 2 years. By the time Ehlers, Morrissey, 2015 1st hit their stride Wheeler, Enstrom, and Little will all be near the end of their primes.

Another finish in No Man's Land without any movement at the deadline.... Chevy must be forced out by the fans.

 

[KingBogo]

Ok... but you talk about actual circumstances vs pie in the sky wishes. Two of the above are things the Jets should have done something about if anything made any sense -- keeping Pavs & re-signing Thorbs forever. The rest are pure fantasy. So do you wish to live in a fantasy world or do something about the things we could and should do better with.

Sometimes, it seems like the Jets management live in their own little fantasy world as well. Certainly to the ordinary fan who follows the team closely, how do you make sense of the way they have and continue to deal with Pavs and Thorbs. [mod]

I wish I knew way the Jets valued Thorburn beyond what is readily observable. I really don't have a problem with him as a 4th line 13th forward guy, but moving him up into the 3rd line is a bit mind boggling. Giving him a 3 year 1 way contract seems totally unnecessary. The problem is...and like Pavs they will likely be Jets for a long time. At least we can hope Pavs improves...not much chance of Thorburn becoming more than what he is now.

 

[alchemyindex]

Would rather have Gali or Hali on that third line instead of Thor, but that's been said before.

A week later, and we're almost back to game day! No more dinosaurs in the MTS Centre. Well, Olli's coming back so I guess you could count him.

 

[White Out 403*]

ok everyone can relax, I got this. Just checked into my hotel and about to eat some santa lucia. Ill be ready for tomorrow

 

[ps241]

ok everyone can relax, I got this. Just checked into my hotel and about to eat some santa lucia. Ill be ready for tomorrow

Atta Boy Resi!!

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Thorburn and Peluso weren't competing with Petan for a job. Right or wrong those 2 players are on 1 way contracts and are expected to be willing to fight as necessary. You can argue that has no place in the game and I would probably agree with you. But Petan was not competing with them or going to supplant their role on the team. Petan was competing for the seemingly available winger spot in the middle 6 and was deemed not ready. You do realize how exceedingly rare it is for a 2nd round pick to make the NHL while they are still junior eligible? Last season a total of 2 players drafted in the second round played a total of 24 games as 19 yo. This season not a single 19 yo 2nd round pick has played a single shift.

These decisions are made with input from all levels of the organization. Every indication was there was a place for Morrissey on the team if he proved to be ready. And apparently he wasn't. And Lowry plain and simple earned a spot. He is 2 years older and has a more NHL ready game. One of the biggest knocks on the Jets organization when they first came to Winnipeg from Atlanta is that they needlessly rushed their prospects. I for one I'm glad we changed course and the organization is being run closer along the lines of the the more successful teams.

Yes, of course he was deemed not ready. That's why he is not here. What influenced that assessment?

How rare such an event is has no bearing. Had it never happened before even once has no bearing. Is he NOW a better player than any one of the 14 forwards who were kept?

You judge that Morrissey was not ready how? The fact that he was not kept. OK, every decision, every choice made by every coach, scout, manager is holy writ and not to be questioned. What do you consider the purpose of this forum to be? Endlessly posting 'Go Jets Go'?

The fact is that several big players with acknowledged skill deficits were kept with the team. Several small players of acknowledged high skill levels were not kept.

 

[broinwhyteridge]

What? Did you not see the white font?

D'oh.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Maurice = Noel.

I wouldn't say that. If for no other reason it is just too soon to evaluate the overall effect of Maurice's coaching. I don't like some of his line-up choices. He seems reluctant to call up players from the A when someone is injured. He seems to like big players which is fine when they are also good hockey players but he seems to think it compensates for a serious lack of skill. He likes Thor in the top 6.