Post-Game Talk: Pre-Season | Game 4 | Sharks 3 @ Canucks 2 OT

[orcatown]

Some good things out of some of the prospects but overall play remains erratic at best. Team needs a ton better coverage in its own.

Good

Rodin - emerging as the best Canuck story of the pre-season. We actually have player with superior skill. Looked very good on PP. Like how he finds opening and his quick release. Got to keep him healthy.

LaBate - like how he starting to show confidence and try to carry the puck more. Has improved so much since becoming a pro. Trajectory right now is very good.

Joulevi - not all the time but in the first and in many parts of third showed real well. Love how he stays so square to the play and how he moves in straight lines. That's how Lidstrom played. Rarely made a across over (one was enough with Lidstrom to gain half the ice sheet) when you play like that you don't get leading and beat when you lean. Not saying Joulevi is Lidstrom or ever close to being that but just as to the style. Game gets easier when you can remain so quiet and balanced in the upper body while moving your feet quickly. Very much encouraged by his play in this game.

Miller - solid effort behind an often shaky defense

Not Good

Edler - got a little better late but overall another sad sack effort. Maybe not turning it on in the pre-season. Very slow around his net and lots of sloppy area passes coming out of his zone. Put little pressure on the puck in his end. Often did not provide his defensive partner with any d to d pass as he sort of hung out around his net. No big deal if he can switch it on when the regular season starts.

Etem - Wow. Just bad. Often seems to get with his back to the play and not be watching the puck. Gets caught unaware when the puck comes to him. When he does get the puck takes off and runs into the first defender he meets and loses the puck. Should be an immediate cut.

Others

Ruttu - got the nice goal but looks like legs are gone. Rather keep a younger player.

Sheppard - better but still not much. Maybe give him a another chance. However, very limited in the skating department.

Zelewski - positive game for Z. Looked good when given some better linemates. Did a good job on the cycle and created some offensive pressure. Might have been better than Gaunce in this game. Starts in Utica but has improved during the pre-season.

Gaunce - here and there a good play but could unfortunately see some of the heavy legged play creeping back in. Hustled on the forecheck but when he got in deep ended up chasing the play back into his own end because of lack of speed in transition. You wonder that if the competition b/w Z and Gaunce was given time that Z might begin to emerge as the better player. That's what seemed to have occurred in Utica.

Rendulic - looks like he is close to scoring a couple. Lacks a complete game but likely one of the last cuts.

Dorsett - fringe player that is way overpaid. Now it looks like he is going to be over-played. Putting him in offensive situations is brain dead.

Make a separate comment about WD here:

Willie likes the character guys. Also, likes the players he has coached that were good players to coach. These are the kind of players who you know remain loyal and thus easy to coach. Often the description "character" means easy to coach. (guys like Vey) Problem is that often the best players, the players that are the big talents, are not that easy to coach. And that's when a coach really earns his spurs. Its when you get the undisciplined star to fit your system, to play team hockey and keep out of trouble that you prove yourself as a coach.

Pretty damn easy to get so called "character" (read easy to coach) team when you kick all the difficult players (ala Kassian, Vrbata, etc..) off the team. Trouble is that teams with a bunch of easy guys to coach you often lose.

To me, this as been aspect of the team since Willie arrived. No way that Vey should have ever been given the time he was (or the endless second chances). And there is no way that Dorsett should be paid the way he is or be any consideration for anything special such as overtime. Dorsett is a 4th line plug with no offensive upside. But he is a Willie loyalist and makes it easier for Willie to control the the team

Moreover, you wonder what hand Willie had in bringing in the useless Etem. Maybe better to get someone you are familiar with than someone who might be a problem to coach.

The use of Dorsett in this game, and just the overall treatment of Dorsett, underlines a troubling tendency of this coach.

And btw can we please stop with the too many men on the ice penalties.


Tanev - don't know how this player gets a star in this game. Some ok shifts (but nothing much really) Thought he struggled with the puck (especially at the offensive blue line) and got pushed back (right into the crease) too much in this game. Took a lot of hits again and this should be a concern for the team. You wonder if his off season training has increased his size but maybe decreased his mobility. Certainly not jumping up and getting ahead of the play like last year.

Baertschi - should have done more with offensive opportunities provided. No better than mediocre. Some of his passing was poor.

Pedan - no glaring errors but back on his heels in his own end. Tried to keep it simple but might speculate that this is not going to get the best out of him. Did a good job in the fight and this team needs toughness. Real bubble player. Type of player that you really need high level coaching with.

Stetcher - thought he was overall good. Not as flashy as the other night but not a big problem in his own end which is, in my mind, the only big concern. atm some time in Utica would not hurt him although he, on prefromance, should probably make the team

Megna - can see he is limited but might provide some depth in the organization. However, at present, needs to down to Utica

 

[Rotting Corpse*]

Really appreaciate the in-depth recaps from Mr.C, MS, orcatown and others. Despite all my posts I wasn't actually watching the game tonight so I appreciate the insights.

 

[Serac]

Disappointed in the lack of gifs from WTG of great plays like the Rodin goal, or Stecher's spinorama
Just because it's preseason, doesn't mean you can slack

 

[biturbo19]

Wonder how on the bubble Etem is at this point. Remember last year Vey was waived and sent to Utica after a poor pre-season. Took a lot of us by surprise considering his WillieD Golden Boy status and his 1M contract; Etem getting the same treatment would be less surprising.

Etem is certainly cruising the same direction as Vey last preseason which led to the waiving (unfortunately kind of temporary).

I didn't think he was near as bad as some were claiming in his last game vs Edmonton, but in this outing he was utterly invisible. Showed absolutely nothing worth keeping.

Though i think it's also worth noting that both he and Dorsett looked worse to me tonight...with the biggest change being their Center, swapped from Granlund to Gaunce. And coincidentally, i thought Gaunce also played easily his weakest game of the preseason.

If Willie's Tiger Hat bros are going to be shoehorned into the lineup as the 4th line wingers...Granlund had the much better showing with those two. For whatever that may end up meaning to the final 23 roster.

 

[Bad Goalie]

Again I really appreciate the analysis of Mike Zalewski's play. He is never going to be flashy but what he accomplishes on the fore check should not go unnoticed by any hockey eyes. He is the prototype of the perfect 4th line winger but also capable of stepping in at center. He is always aware of the situation and knows when to press hard and when to just be an annoyance and get back. He denies passing lanes in all 3 zones with the best of them. He is tenacious on the back check often causing the puck carrier to pass it before he wants to or ends up covering the guy the puck carrier wanted to pass to. He will also take the puck from the puck carrier from behind in the neutral zone and create an odd man return rush or his own breakaway. He is equally responsible at the opposite end of the rink. In a shorter sense, he has a very good IQ.

He is as good a 4th liner as the Canucks currently will be considering for that roster spot. Unlike Gaunce, he never takes a shift off or goes missing every once in a while for as much as an entire game.

Biega is also underappreciated by many, but there isn't a better bottom defender on the team. He can sit in the press box and then sub in for a game or many depending upon the injury situations and he will hold his own.

Gaunce can be an every day NHLer as well but needs a coach who knows how to push through his self love without breaking his confidence.

LaBate will disappoint when the AHL opponents are gone and he has to match the speed of the real NHL players. It's something he is going to have to keep improving as well as the use of his edges and quickening his feet in tight spaces. His lumbering efforts on the boards will hold him back. When he gets into trying to fore check quick footed, highly skilled, slick D-men he will lose his edge, miss a step, and even fall down which leads to chasing from behind on the back check. He needs more time at a lower level to work on that on a regular shift getting much more ice than a 4th line NHL player gets not named Dorsett.

 

[sting101]

Seems pointless to talk about the veterans. Veterans seldom get up to much in the preseason and usually seem content to use it as a warm-up to work out the kinks in their game. Lots of motions being gone through. Let's hope that's the case with Baertschi, because he looked pretty woeful tonight. Shades of the player we saw at the beginning of last year. Lost every single puck battle he had.

The bubble guys...

STETCHER - I thought he played a super high-impact game. It wasn't all perfect, but you noticed the guy almost every time he was on the ice. Shows some zip and offensive creativity. You have to think this strong showing is ultimately going to make a similar (and thus far more problematic) player in Subban expendable. You can never have too many good prospects, but you might actually be able to have too many pint-sized swashbuckling offensive defensemen. Stetcher is probably too raw and too risky to get anything more than a cup of coffee with the big club this year, and his waiver situation almost cements that fate, but lord he isn't making the decision easy for anyone.

LABATE - Busted his butt on every shift and was almost always doing something productive or helpful. Looked like the very picture of the prototypical 4th line energy winger, which is exactly the job he should have his sights set on. Unfortunately, there's some aging garbage in his way.

RUUTU - Also looked decent, although it needs to be kept in mind he's a desperate veteran, not a shiny kid taking his first steps on NHL ice. Made some nice little veteran plays, a blocked shot here, an agitated opponent there. His goal was a gorgeous snipe. Probably too small and too slow to realistically make a bid for a lineup spot though.

ETEM - An absolute ghost tonight. He better have some tricks up his sleeve for the remaining games. I realize he just had a kid, but the clock is running on this guy.

PEDAN - Still seems to have troubles pivoting and dealing with faster forwards. Looked like an unhinged lunatic during his fight, which is refreshing, but still seems like he might be a bit too raw for NHL duty. Big, offensively challenged bottom pairing defensemen are ideally steady, and I'm not sure he's there yet.

BIEGA - Speaking of steady, I still like Biega's game. He skates very well and battles hard. Was the victim of some ill timed penalties tonight but I think he has a far more NHL ready game then most of his competition.

JUOLEVI - Not really a "bubble guy" as his return to juniors was as sure a thing as sure things get, but I liked what I saw of his game in flashes tonight. You can see the offensive instincts and creativity are there, but he needs time to adapt to the speed of the pro game and another 2-3 years worth of muscle on his scrawny frame. A long term project but I think the ceiling is super high.

RODIN - Seems dangerous every time he has the puck in a scoring position. Has made a few nice plays with very little time and space, passes and shoots the puck extremely quickly. His feet, however, need to catch up to his hands. He looks sluggish, and easily gassed. Clearly still needs time to get accustomed to NHL action. If he makes the roster, and he almost certainly will, his minutes are going to need to be carefully managed.

DORSETT - Not a bubble guy but probably should be. Everyone is piling on, and as a veteran we should probably expect very little from Dorsett in these games, but as a marginal veteran with a lot of young players knocking at the door coming off a league-bottom finish Dorsett should be looking to make a statement. He was useless in almost every facet of the game. Fudged his offensive looks, was ineffective defensively, and got turned inside-out in his pointless momentum draining fight. Dorsett did a lot more to earn his ridiculous contract than Sbisa did...he was actually pretty decent the season he signed it. Close to 30 points, fightin' all the time, skating hard. Since that time he's been an absolute void, and he's starting to get in the way of younger, cheaper, better players already. Frustrating.

GAUNCE - Had some issues later in the game but early on especially I thought he looked good almost every time he had an opportunity to make a difference. Seems to be using his big frame with a lot more authority than last season. Would be nice to assess this player without two players playing dreadful hockey sagging on either side of him.



Given our coach already treats Baertschi and Horvat like an old married couple, I'd rather see Rodin playing elsewhere in the lineup. Perhaps on Sutter's wing, or Granlund, or Gaunce. I've always liked Virtanen on that line because his speed and north/south game gives Horvat both a net front presence and someone speedy to work with off the rush.

Was at the game and was gonna add a breakdown but this is pretty spot on to what I took from it. Nice job.

I'll add a few comments.

Juolevi - he's not ready this year but I came away really impressed with his game. His tape to tape stretch passes and up ice distribution was excellent. You can see him with his head firmly up looking off players and placing passes in ideal positions. His skating is silky smooth and with added maturity and strength is gonna be top tier. Definitely has the foot speed and IQ to jump into the offence. Came away extremely excited about his potential.

Etem - this player is falling fast in my eyes. Puck just dies on his stick, plays with his head down, seems absolutely clueless about where to be when and even out of shape.

If Sedin Sedin Eriksson Horvat Sutter Hansen Baertschi are the top 7.

The next seven for me at this point are Virtanen?? Rodin Granlund Gaunce Burrows Skille Dorsett.

On D the top 4 is obvious.

5-7 Is still a mystery for me. Sbisa Stecher are my 5-6 the 7th is yet to be decided.

 

[MS]

Zalewski is a great option for a 4th liner. He always seems to win board battles and get possession, especially in the offensive zone.

Zalewski has quietly had a good preseason. The guy is so underrated, he's positionally sound and great along the boards.

Definitely. Really like his speed and understanding of the game too. Both he and Labate have outshone Dorsett and Etem.

Glad others are noticing Zalewski as well.

There's absolutely zero flash to his game and he's never going to dangle anyone and doesn't have great hands and isn't going to run guys over ... but he just constantly wins possession battles along the boards to get pucks to his linemates. Knows where to be, has a good stick, has a great motor, and knows how to get body position on defenders. Whenever a turnover is forced in the offensive zone this preseason it's always #40 or #50 who is right there.

Basically the anti-Dorsett. One guys who runs around being noisily ineffective, another who is quietly tilting the ice in his teams favour and making his linemates better by doing the dirty work in the trenches well.

 

[WTG]

WD's presser

https://www.nhl.com/canucks/video/e...-sharks/t-277437438/c-45038503?autostart=true

 

[ahmon]

Stecher wasn't able to replicate his production of his Game 1, but he showed another side of his game.

His defensive game is quite solid. He's not the biggest guy but doesn't put himself into much battles where he needs to outmuscle the opposing player.

I counted at least 3 times where he simply caught up to the forward and wacked the puck away.

He takes chances, but they seem calculated - most of his pinches were on time.


Rodin is most likely starting the our top 6. His skill just separates him from the crowd.
Much stronger than his first stint here, and his game has evolved now that the can "speed' the game up and "slow" it down.


Juolevi had a much better 2nd game. One of this breakout stretch pass was so fast and accurate the camera man could barely catch it. Needs to get stronger, and learn to be more assertive.


Gaunce better be on the opening night roster.

 

[The Stig]

WD's presser

https://www.nhl.com/canucks/video/e...-sharks/t-277437438/c-45038503?autostart=true

 

[The Stig]

Yea just watched the video. Willie is sold on Stecher.

 

[WTG]

Yea just watched the video. Willie is sold on Stecher.

Yeah, that giggle in the "I noticed that too".

TBH, tonights game might have solidified it for Stecher. It also helps that management seems to love the kid. He's got that "character" or as Orcatown puts it, "easy to coach" personality that is clearly popular with Willie, the way he raves about him. I can easily see Stecher on the opening night roster after tonights game.

 

[Shareefruck]

I have to say, this year is one of the best "bubble guys stepping up and making a case for themselves" years I can remember

Rodin
Stecher
Gaunce
Zalewski
Labate
Carcone
Juolevi

all having/had reasonably strong preseasons

 

[Saturated Fats]

To me, if this is a 'merit-based' camp and pre-season...

Stecher, Gaunce, Rodin and Skille have played their ways onto the roster, and Ruutu and LaBate are worthy of consideration.

Really interesting year. Some organic turnover is incoming, for sure.

 

[Pip]

While Gaunce had a quiet night, IMO it shows really how ineffective Dorsett and Etem are as potential fourth line wingers.

I have to say, this year is one of the best "bubble guys stepping up and making a case for themselves" years I can remember

Rodin
Stecher
Gaunce
Zalewski
Labate
Carcone
Juolevi

all having/had reasonably strong preseasons

Not too mention that Skille and now Ruutu are showing pretty well on their PTOs which would lilkely be a bigger story if not for the kids.

 

[Cupless44]

Yeah to me he's past Biega and Larsen on the depth chart. Solid in the defensive zone, another tough defenseman and seems to have some untapped talent.

IMO Pedan has too good tools....size, nastiness, skating, shot, to be exposed to waivers for the likes of Journeymen like Biega and Larsen.

Larsen looks to me like another Weber...has some offensive potential..but not ..really all that much to make up for his size and how easily he gets manhandled defensively.

If you exposed Biega and Larsen to waivers they would clear for sure, Pedan I am not so sure, which speaks that he still has potential. He offers more upside than Sbisa also.

 

[Samzilla]

On the plus side, only 3 more years of dorsett!

 

[Cupless44]

Labate works so damn hard, don't think that type of effort is sustainable but good for him!

LaBate has done everything to get noticed a young player in his position could do. Kudos to him. He is an intriguing 4th line option with some size and skill, if not right now, certainly in the near future. Ideally Green can help develop his game even more.

 

[Nucker101]

Was recording the game so I just finished watching it. Some thoughts on the bubble guys and prospects:

Rodin: Looked as dangerous as any forward out there tonight. His hockey sense and skill looks NHL-worthy. Pleasantly surprised by how well he retrieves the puck and goes to the dangerous scoring areas. Think he works very well with Bo. Should definitely be on the team, I just hope he's not stuck playing with Sutter and Dorsett during the regular season.

LaBate: Loving his energy, seems to have redefined his game a bit to be more of an energy guy and a poop disturber. Guys like him are exactly why is never bother paying a 4th liner like Dorsett more than 1M or 1.5M max on nothing more than a 2 year deal.

Ruutu: Played his ass off tonight trying to earn one more NHL contract. He was decent, but I don't see him holding up well over 82 games and I'd rather not have another 4th line vet blocking a spot from a younger player who can be just as effective and bring more speed. I think he'd be better off playing in Europe.

Megna: A very meh player at this level. Good depth for Utica.

Etem: Dissapointing and frustrating. Just isn't a smart hockey player and doesn't hustle enough along the boards to maintain possession or establish a forecheck. His speed and decent skill will always be intriguing. Ideally he clears waivers so Green can work with him down in Utica.

Gaunce: I'm a fan of his, but he was pretty meh tonight. Playing with two low IQ wingers doesn't help but I was still a bit disappointed in him tonight. That being said, his overall body of work suggests that he's ready for a 4th line role. Again, another example of why I'd never sign a 4th liner to a significant contract. Guys like Gaunce can hold their own at a much cheaper cap hit.

Dorsett: I actually like him as a 4th line winger, but sadly it's hard to love him when he's overpaid and the coach is overplaying him. People suggesting he should be waived are getting carried away, it's not his fault that he's overpaid and over played. Still a decent 4th liner.

Sheppard: Should be cut. Seems to have lost a step and doesn't seem desperate enough like Skille/Ruutu to make this team which is ironic since he was the one who I'd wager most would have bet on to have the highest odds of turning a PTO into a contract.

Zalewski: Love his game. I'll bang the same drum again, it's easy to put together a passable 4th line in the NHL with guys like this. His forechecking, puck retrieval and board work is phenomenal. It's too bad he doesn't seem to have much offensively, but still he's someone who should be called up when injuries hit and a 4th liner is needed.

Rendulic: Flashes some nice offensive ability and hands. Not NHL-worthy yet but seems to have the upside to be useful in the NHL if he puts it all together. Interested to see how he develops under Green.

Stetcher: He's earned a spot in the top 6. Plain and simple. I know some of the same people who thought Hutton should have been sent down at this time last year will probably want the same for Stetcher. I just believe that the best players deserve to make the team. I can't say that 6 others have deserved to be listed ahead of him. He's the most offensively gifted dman on the roster right now.

Juolevi: Hockey sense is evident. Very mature mentally for a player of his age. Just not strong enough for the NHL yet, and he could also work on pivoting a bit as well. I hope he takes a step forward offensively in London this year and comes into camp next year 10 pounds heavier.

Biega: Still feel the same way about him. He's a good #7 or #8 dman you can have step in as depth when injuries hit. Unlike a lot of defenders(especially Sbisa), he's good at positioning himself between his man and the net, despite his small stature. Boxing out is more crucial than ever since it seems like 90% of the goals scored these days is with a deflection/screen/rebound. Outside of that, I don't see much that he brings though.

Pedan: I can't help but cheer for this guy. I'd love for him to become more steady since it'd be great to have a punishing dman who could kick some ass with heavy hits. Sadly, he still seems raw. His pivoting meets to improve and his awareness/poise still isn't good enough. He looks more confident in the AHL so maybe he just needs a few NHL games to adjust, learn on the fly and gain confidence.

 

[me2]

Liked Rodin a lot. Hopefully he's even better once up to full speed.

Stecher. Excellent again. He's small but he does his best to mitigate it.

Pedan was better but really should be playing every game, top 4 minutes because he needs more development.

Joulevi, decent game but not quite NHL ready. Vlasic is probably his upside, would be very nice outcome.

Z and gaunce should be pushing for 4th line spots but yeah road blocks.

Benning would earn a little more respect if he swallowed hard and sent the road blocks to AHL.

 

[go comets]

Gaunce looked tired as HELL out there.

Not surprising though, as he has played all 4 pre-season games.

This game didn't do him any favors, but he didn't make any mistakes.

Ummm. We saw more games like this from Gaunce in Utica than the ones where he plays with energy... a very frustrating player.......

 

[absolute garbage]

Baertschi looks stronger and faster than last year but it doesn't matter if he plays like a primadonna, like he did first half of last season. Needs to bear down, work harder and pay the price again.

Etem has had a stinker camp. Has done nothing to justify NHL spot. Definitely the biggest disappointment.

Megna and Sheppard shouldn't play another game. Rendulic might be done aswell.

Another strong game by Gaunce. Probably not as strong as previous games, but still he was one of the top players.

Guys like Labate, Ruutu, Skille and Zalewski (and Cracknell last year) are all great examples why signing players like Dorsett to 10M contracts is idiocy. This preseason, those 4 guys make the Canucks a better team than it is with Dorsett. This is purely on-ice too, without salaries. Wish few of those guys make the team but probably won't happen.

Stetcher looked good. Might seriously be in consideration for opening day roster. Has outplayed guys like Tryamkin and Pedan by large margin. Biega's camp has been worse than last year.

Juolevi looked better than in his first game. But ways to go still. Not ready.

Pedan just as awful as always. Seems like every time the play is near him he does something wrong. Glad Willie sees this aswell and doesn't use him much.

 

[tantalum]

ETEM - An absolute ghost tonight. He better have some tricks up his sleeve for the remaining games. I realize he just had a kid, but the clock is running on this guy.

BUt he's not really just a kid. He's 24 with nearly 200 NHl games under his belt and this is his 7th camp. It's not that he's a kid but rather that in the end he appears to be a bubble guy.

And really that is a lot of the issue this team has when it comes to depth. Too many guys in the bottom 6, extra forwards and looking for a call up who are bubble players or destined to be bubble players.

Etem, Dorsett, Granlund, LaBate, Zalewski, Gaunce etc....

You could shave $6 mil from the cap by finding a way to get rid of Sbisa and Dorsett and even if they weren't replaced by league minimum guys the organizational depth wouldn't actually be affected that much, if at all.

 

[Nomobo]

While Gaunce had a quiet night, IMO it shows really how ineffective Dorsett and Etem are as potential fourth line wingers.

Not too mention that Skille and now Ruutu are showing pretty well on their PTOs which would lilkely be a bigger story if not for the kids.

But yet when Granlund played with them, all the talk was that he was really underachieving.

 

[JuniorNelson]

Willie likes the character guys. Also, likes the players he has coached that were good players to coach. These are the kind of players who you know remain loyal and thus easy to coach. Often the description "character" means easy to coach. (guys like Vey) Problem is that often the best players, the players that are the big talents, are not that easy to coach. And that's when a coach really earns his spurs. Its when you get the undisciplined star to fit your system, to play team hockey and keep out of trouble that you prove yourself as a coach.

Pretty damn easy to get so called "character" (read easy to coach) team when you kick all the difficult players (ala Kassian, Vrbata, etc..) off the team. Trouble is that teams with a bunch of easy guys to coach you often lose.

This is a blazing insight, IMO.

Canucks are icing fast line-ups in preseason. This leads me to believe they understand the value! I do not think they have the jam to actually ice a quick team in the regular season, considering what that would entail but it is fun to watch, right now.