Potential new lines per Staple

[Thatguystevie]

Well, tell you what dude, next time I you get any impression that I give a crap what you thinking about my wording choices, let me know so I can correct you. Its a freaking hockey chat board. Going around picking posts apart for word choice is just silly. This is your third post about a wording issue in this thread.

The rest of your points (which, as it turns out, are actually about HOCKEY, not vocabulary) are 100% dead-on accurate. I couldn't agree more. Yeah, JT and KO have been bad - but the REAL problem is meh goaltending, poor defense, and a horrendous PK.

The bad line combos are not helping, but you are absolutely correct (at least IMO) that the major problems are elsewhere.

I also worry about development issues. What does it do to players like Strome and Nelson to be bounced around and paired with crap linemates?

Haha. No ones picking anything apart. You just aren't making an sense. You're writing is too hyperbolic for anyone to really understand what you're trying to say. We aren't trying to pick on you, man. It's not our fault you took so many posts to get your point across clearly. Chill out.

We"re just saying that saying that all their points came from the powerplay is inaccurate. Don't be so sensitive.

I mean I don't really think what you're saying is accurate anyway. Tavares and Okposo have more ES points than anyone currently playing.

 

[redbull]

I respectfully disagree here. Strome looks much better on the wing. He is too small to be an NHL center. If you noticed during the Sharks game he was overwhelmed with the defensive responsibilities at center. Strome is an offensive speedster that should be scoring goals and creating offensive opportunities not a two way center. Strome and Nelson need to stick together with Nelson playing center.

If Strome can't hack it as a 2way centre in the NHL that's one thing, but I don't think that's the case and he's just 21, that experiment hasn't really started yet.

I don't mind him playing the wing early in his career, especially in an offensive role or with offensive linemates. As I posted before, the role and quality of linemates TRUMPS his specific position, always. Nazem Kadri's facing the same issues in Toronto, with the team unsure if Kadri's good enough to be a top six centre, both offensively and defensively (Kadri's two years older than Strome though).

The type of game Strome plays is that of a centre, offensively anyway. Strome isn't big or a speedster by any means. He'll get stronger and his skating will improve as he gets older, but his strength & style is pure centre. His puck distribution/vision and ability to make quick decisions, find open teammates and make plays is bahind ONLY Tavares on the Islanders.

No matter what position he plays though, he'll have to be strong defensively. Not necessarily a shut-down guy, but being on the right side of the puck, positioning in the defensive zone and not being a liability 5on5 is key. On that part, Strome will need to be better whether it's on the wing OR centre. Wingers have a big responsibiliy defensively as well BUT also have different responsibilities on offense. They're often the first ones in on the forececk, responsible for winning puck races and/or dislodging defensemen from the puck - that's not Strome's game either. Strome's a lot like what PA Parenteau was, in a way, and while he could certainly play wing in an offensive role, the defensive part is a key factor in determining his overall effectiveness. Parenteau's play without the puck is the main reason he's no longer in COL.

Strome will have a solid NHL career, because he's talented. He'll have to "do the best he can" without the puck, he's not going to be a Ryan Kesler, but he'll define his career with his offense. He'll be similar to a Nazem Kadri or Mike Ribeiro or Derek Stepan - that type of player, best suited to centre.

 

[The Underboss]

Strome on 4th line? Is he drunk? If you're going to keep him there, send him to BPST. Such a waste having him there.

 

[A Pointed Stick]

Per Staple, Cizikas is not dressing tonight, and Strome is the 4th line center.

Has he played that poorly (yes) or is this the harbinger of a trade?

I HOPE I USED THE WORD "HARBINGER" CORRECTLY, OTHERWISE THE THESAURUS POLICE MIGHT TRY TO SCOLD ME!

That was a preemptive shout. XD

 

[bishop12]

5th line

Capuano-Wang-Snow

hilarious

 

[Darth Milbury]

Has he played that poorly (yes) or is this the harbinger of a trade?

I HOPE I USED THE WORD "HARBINGER" CORRECTLY, OTHERWISE THE THESAURUS POLICE MIGHT TRY TO SCOLD ME!

That was a preemptive shout. XD

You rock, dude. LOL.


I don't personally think CC has been any worse than Martin, and I he has been a lot better than Conacher.

So, I'm not sure I agree with this at all.

 

[Darth Milbury]

I mean I don't really think what you're saying is accurate anyway. Tavares and Okposo have more ES points than anyone currently playing.

That's somewhat irrelevant to the point. Its nice that KO and JT are outscoring the rest of their teammates - as they should do given that they are the top line. Its problematic though that they are ineffective at even ice.

Beyond the mind numbing discussion about wording issues, take a look at that earlier analysis I presented. Looking at the top ten scorers around the NHL, Malkin is the only one who got 50% or so of his points on the PP.

To me, that is a problem. If the PP gets shut down, JT and KO don't score, and there is a not enough offense elsewhere to compensate.

I still agree with Charlie that defense and PK are bigger issues though.


Here is a glaring stat for you to chew on: JT has ONE goal this season at even strength. ONE.

 

[Felix Unger]

Strome will have a solid NHL career, because he's talented. He'll have to "do the best he can" without the puck, he's not going to be a Ryan Kesler, but he'll define his career with his offense. He'll be similar to a Nazem Kadri or Mike Ribeiro or Derek Stepan - that type of player, best suited to centre.

Nazem Kadri and Mike Ribiero, no. Not at all. He's never going to be as flashy or as thick as those guys - he never holds the puck long enough. Stepan, sure. Strome seems to learn every shift, and he's got a chippy competitiveness that I love. I know it's silly, but he reminds me of a young Doug Weight.

 

[startainfection*]

Kuli jt strome
Grabovski Nelson okposo
Lee Nielsen Conacher
Martin/boulton cizikas clutterbuck

Bailey replaces Conacher
Grabner is 4th line left wing and gets moved up when ever someone needs to be scratched and then Martin goes in to the 4th line left wing again

 

[islesfan186]

Kuli jt strome
Grabovski Nelson okposo
Lee Nielsen Conacher
Martin/boulton cizikas clutterbuck

Bailey replaces Conacher
Grabner is 4th line left wing and gets moved up when ever someone needs to be scratched and then Martin goes in to the 4th line left wing again

Martin should always be on the 4th line. Grabner on the bottom line would be a waste of his abilities...though they do get a ton of ice time, so maybe you're on to something lol

 

[Seph]

Haha. No ones picking anything apart. You just aren't making an sense. You're writing is too hyperbolic for anyone to really understand what you're trying to say. We aren't trying to pick on you, man. It's not our fault you took so many posts to get your point across clearly. Chill out.

We"re just saying that saying that all their points came from the powerplay is inaccurate. Don't be so sensitive.

I mean I don't really think what you're saying is accurate anyway. Tavares and Okposo have more ES points than anyone currently playing.

Strome and Nelson have as many ES points as Tavares (7), and more than Okposo (6). Grabovksi also has as many as Okposo. So, they don't have more players than anyone currently playing at ES.

But the discrepancy really shows when you look at how their production is relative to their ice time.

Name		ES Pts	ES TOI		ES Pts/60 min
Mikhail Grabovski	6	110:23:00	3.261
Ryan Strome	7	130:51:00	3.210
Josh Bailey	4	77:28:00		3.098
Brock Nelson	7	147:04:00	2.856
Frans Nielsen	5	138:48:00	2.161
John Tavares	7	200:04:00	2.099
Nikolay Kulemin	5	147:34:00	2.033
Kyle Okposo	6	194:04:00	1.855
Anders Lee	1	62:55:00		0.954
Cal Clutterbuck	2	132:38:00	0.905
Cory Conacher	2	162:57:00	0.736
Matt Martin	1	127:36:00	0.470
Casey Cizikas	0	130:29:00	0.000
Colin McDonald	0	20:44		0.000
Eric Boulton	0	7:48		0.000

Tavares is 6th and Okposo is 8th on the team in ES points per ES TOI. I'm not saying this is a metric the top line must come in 1st all the time, as they play against top checking units so it can be difficult. That said, the two guys geting by far the most ES minutes should be somewhere in the top 5 if you want to say they're getting it done 5 on 5.

 

[Thatguystevie]

That's somewhat irrelevant to the point. Its nice that KO and JT are outscoring the rest of their teammates - as they should do given that they are the top line. Its problematic though that they are ineffective at even ice.

Beyond the mind numbing discussion about wording issues, take a look at that earlier analysis I presented. Looking at the top ten scorers around the NHL, Malkin is the only one who got 50% or so of his points on the PP.

To me, that is a problem. If the PP gets shut down, JT and KO don't score, and there is a not enough offense elsewhere to compensate.

I still agree with Charlie that defense and PK are bigger issues though.


Here is a glaring stat for you to chew on: JT has ONE goal this season at even strength. ONE.

The only thing that's mind numbing is your inability to express your ideas through the English language.

Anyway. The power play and ES goals aren't the biggest problem. The PK is killing this team.

 

[RMimagery]

That's somewhat irrelevant to the point. Its nice that KO and JT are outscoring the rest of their teammates - as they should do given that they are the top line. Its problematic though that they are ineffective at even ice.

Beyond the mind numbing discussion about wording issues, take a look at that earlier analysis I presented. Looking at the top ten scorers around the NHL, Malkin is the only one who got 50% or so of his points on the PP.

To me, that is a problem. If the PP gets shut down, JT and KO don't score, and there is a not enough offense elsewhere to compensate.

I still agree with Charlie that defense and PK are bigger issues though.


Here is a glaring stat for you to chew on: JT has ONE goal this season at even strength. ONE.

I agree with most of what you've been saying here.

The main reason for the bolded is the failed Conacher experiment who has been JT's LW for most games at ES. He's also been snake bit somewhat, hitting posts and crossbars. This will even out. With Kulemin, Nelson or Lee there, JT will get more ES goals. Have we seen more than one solid pass that could've lead to a goal from Conacher in the first 10 games? Scary. Makes me miss Boyes which says a ton.

Grabner is missed more than most realize. He should be tried up top as the recent analytics article you posted recommends. Bailey could work there too.

The fact that these two important possession players (and on the PK - especially Grabner) have missed time hurts a lot because all the lines are compromised and less than what they should be. Just getting back one of these guys will help the entire team.

 

[BEB595]

Lines when everyone's healthy?

Kulemin Tavares Okposo
Grabovski Nielson Grabner
Lee Nelson Strome
Bailey Cizikas Clutterbuck
Martin

 

[Disgraced Cosmonaut]

there seems to be the false impression that every minute of game time is equal. they are not. merely being on the ice less than someone and scoring at a better rate is not in any way indicative of what would happen if the minutes-played were swapped between players.
lighten up people. JT and KO didn't go to Suck School over night (or would that be "Night School for Sucking"). The season is long. Things will balance out. Andddd, we have a winning record despite some statistical oddities. Even better, I say.