Post-Game Talk: Post Trade Deadline Thread

[Matias Maccete]

Yeah I don't like the optics argument for grossman and chip. For hanzal I totally get it, that would've been more in line with what we did last year, but grossman and chip are so easily replaceable. There is the effect on the locker room, but if losing a dman who has been a regular healthy scratch and a 4th liner blows your locker room up there's bigger issues than optics to consider imo.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Yeah I don't like the optics argument for grossman and chip. For hanzal I totally get it, that would've been more in line with what we did last year, but grossman and chip are so easily replaceable. There is the effect on the locker room, but if losing a dman who has been a regular healthy scratch and a 4th liner blows your locker room up there's bigger issues than optics to consider imo.

What you're not taking into account enough is the effect of personality on the room. Sometimes these "scrub" players are important in balancing out clashing personalities. A Kyle Chipchura, as absolutely replaceable as he is on the ice, might be the only guy on the team who can "translate" a player like, say, Duclair to the other guys on the team; a Nick Grossmann might be an easy scratch but might also be someone the younger defensemen listen to far more closely than to Playfair.

I'll ***** all day about guys being ineffective or worse on the ice, but I hesitate to do so about their effect on the room, because I'm not privy to the relationships these guys have or the atmosphere they create together.

 

[_Del_]

I'll ***** all day about guys being ineffective or worse on the ice, but I hesitate to do so about their effect on the room, because I'm not privy to the relationships these guys have or the atmosphere they create together.

Maybe Don was less concerned about the fans, and just didn't want to listen to Doan ***** and moan about breaking up his country club like last year.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Maybe Don was less concerned about the fans, and just didn't want to listen to Doan ***** and moan about breaking up his country club like last year.

Yep, like I posted upthread, Maloney had no interest in making a bad situation worse. It bears mentioning that Boedker was pretty popular in the Coyotes' room, and the fallout from the negotiations and the trade would only have been exacerbated if DM had gone ahead and done more asset-gathering.

Hell, getting Tanguay was probably as much about making the Boedker trade palatable to the Captain as it was about filling a roster slot. The slowly decaying remnants of Tanguay are, after all, great pals with Doaner.

 

[PerpetualTankYear]

Today is Domi's 21st birthday. How terrible is he going to play in tomorrow's game?

 

[Matias Maccete]

What you're not taking into account enough is the effect of personality on the room. Sometimes these "scrub" players are important in balancing out clashing personalities. A Kyle Chipchura, as absolutely replaceable as he is on the ice, might be the only guy on the team who can "translate" a player like, say, Duclair to the other guys on the team; a Nick Grossmann might be an easy scratch but might also be someone the younger defensemen listen to far more closely than to Playfair.

I'll ***** all day about guys being ineffective or worse on the ice, but I hesitate to do so about their effect on the room, because I'm not privy to the relationships these guys have or the atmosphere they create together.

Those two aren't likely on the team next year though, so either way someone else needs to step up into that role. Why not have that happen now?

 

[cobra427]

What you're not taking into account enough is the effect of personality on the room. Sometimes these "scrub" players are important in balancing out clashing personalities. A Kyle Chipchura, as absolutely replaceable as he is on the ice, might be the only guy on the team who can "translate" a player like, say, Duclair to the other guys on the team; a Nick Grossmann might be an easy scratch but might also be someone the younger defensemen listen to far more closely than to Playfair.

I'll ***** all day about guys being ineffective or worse on the ice, but I hesitate to do so about their effect on the room, because I'm not privy to the relationships these guys have or the atmosphere they create together.

Good post. It is called culture. Anyone that has owned a business for any length with multiple diverse employees Would understand this issue better. Keeping the room together and cohesiveness on the ice are important. Adding the 8th or 9th rookie won't help anyone's development.

 

[_Del_]

Good post. It is called culture.

88 wins and 139 losses since 2013-2014. Would you say we have a winning or losing culture? How much worse are we going to be without a 4th liner and a veteran defensemen who is a regular scratch?

 

[Jakey53]

88 wins and 139 losses since 2013-2014. Would you say we have a winning or losing culture? How much worse are we going to be without a 4th liner and a veteran defensemen who is a regular scratch?

You have to hit the reset button. Start when the ownership came on board and when they decided that a rebuild was the way to go. Looking back is pointless because with the NHL owning the team everything on the business side was bare bones. It's a miracle the team is still here and another miracle how the team has played, excluding last year.

 

[CC96]

Yeah I don't like the optics argument for grossman and chip. For hanzal I totally get it, that would've been more in line with what we did last year, but grossman and chip are so easily replaceable. There is the effect on the locker room, but if losing a dman who has been a regular healthy scratch and a 4th liner blows your locker room up there's bigger issues than optics to consider imo.

Yeah, it's a ****ing hockey team. First off, you're absolutely right that we have much larger problems at hand, if the locker room can't handle losing one or two marginal players. The inmates shouldn't run the asylum.

Additionally, our season is shot. We have no chance at the playoffs. All my usual schtick aside, trading a guy like Chipchura gives us another roster spot for us to audition players, who are on the cusp such as Dauphin or Gaudet, who both looked great in their short auditions with the team. We need to see what we have in guys like them. That should be our priority right now. Not a 1 in 100 chance at the playoffs.

Maybe Don was less concerned about the fans, and just didn't want to listen to Doan ***** and moan about breaking up his country club like last year.

I really hope this wasn't the case this time around. I still can't believe how shocked Doan was when we had the big sell-off last year. Like, what did he think was gonna happen?

 

[Mosby]

Don't have the numbers in front of me, but if we move Grossmann AND Chipchura, are we below the cap floor?

 

[SniperHF]

It's all prorated so I doubt it.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Those two aren't likely on the team next year though, so either way someone else needs to step up into that role. Why not have that happen now?

Because it can happen in the off-season when there are going to be wholesale roster changes anyway. If you look at the number of UFA and RFA we have after the season ends, it's a pretty hefty list. So the room is going to get serious upheaval at that point. Might as well wait until then instead of sacrificing our low-end depth for little to no reason.

88 wins and 139 losses since 2013-2014. Would you say we have a winning or losing culture? How much worse are we going to be without a 4th liner and a veteran defensemen who is a regular scratch?

Maloney apparently didn't want to find out.

Yeah, it's a ****ing hockey team. First off, you're absolutely right that we have much larger problems at hand, if the locker room can't handle losing one or two marginal players.

Last year, Maloney basically told the team at the deadline, "You guys are going nowhere," through both his trades and his roster moves. That's not a message that he wants to communicate to a rebuilding team, particularly one trying to integrate two very promising rookies.

It's also important to consider that the market for draft picks this year was soft - teams were getting fifth- and sixth-rounders where in previous years they'd get third- or fourth-rounders for depth players. You as a fan might think Chip and Grossmann are barely worth a bag of pucks but Maloney doesn't. Doesn't make sense to file the paperwork two months early if the return is that low.

 

[CC96]

Last year, Maloney basically told the team at the deadline, "You guys are going nowhere," through both his trades and his roster moves. That's not a message that he wants to communicate with to a rebuilding team, particularly one trying to integrate two very promising rookies.

It's also important to consider that the market for draft picks this year was soft - teams were getting fifth- and sixth-rounders where in previous years they'd get third- or fourth-rounders for depth players. You as a fan might think Chip and Grossmann are barely worth a bag of pucks but Maloney doesn't. Doesn't make sense to file the paperwork two months early if the return is that low.

The value isn't in the draft picks, or trade return we receive. It's in auditioning players we have on our farm, who are on the borderline of being NHL players. Since our season is completely shot, now is the time to try them out. Especially in lieu of players like Chipchura, Gordon, and Grossman, all of whom (I hope to God) won't be here next year.

 

[Matias Maccete]

Because it can happen in the off-season when there are going to be wholesale roster changes anyway. If you look at the number of UFA and RFA we have after the season ends, it's a pretty hefty list. So the room is going to get serious upheaval at that point. Might as well wait until then instead of sacrificing our low-end depth for little to no reason.



Maloney apparently didn't want to find out.



Last year, Maloney basically told the team at the deadline, "You guys are going nowhere," through both his trades and his roster moves. That's not a message that he wants to communicate to a rebuilding team, particularly one trying to integrate two very promising rookies.

It's also important to consider that the market for draft picks this year was soft - teams were getting fifth- and sixth-rounders where in previous years they'd get third- or fourth-rounders for depth players. You as a fan might think Chip and Grossmann are barely worth a bag of pucks but Maloney doesn't. Doesn't make sense to file the paperwork two months early if the return is that low.

It's not signaling that we're going nowhere though if the players are just depth guys. It's not like we haven't brought in others to try out for their spots, in chips case sekac and plotnikov were just brought in, let's see what they can bring. We brought in kconn and tinordi and haven't been able to play them both at the same time often because we have grossman and dahlbeck also. It's not throwing in the towel it's giving new guys a shot to steal a job.

Even if the return is very little that's better than nothing, with the draft the more chances you get the better, hidden gems still pop up in the late rounds.

 

[CC96]

Even if the return is very little that's better than nothing, with the draft the more chances you get the better, hidden gems still pop up in the late rounds.

More importantly, we can audition guys like Daupin and Gaudet against real competition, to see if they're worth giving roster spots to next year.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

The value isn't in the draft picks, or trade return we receive. It's in auditioning players we have on our farm, who are on the borderline of being NHL players. Since our season is completely shot, now is the time to try them out. Especially in lieu of players like Chipchura, Gordon, and Grossman, all of whom (I hope to God) won't be here next year.

They can do that after the deadline as much as they want without having to trade anyone. Remember, the roster limits are gone and so long as the Coyotes stay under the cap (HA!) they can audition their entire 50-man roster if they choose.

 

[_Del_]

Last year, Maloney basically told the team at the deadline, "You guys are going nowhere," through both his trades and his roster moves. That's not a message that he wants to communicate to a rebuilding team, particularly one trying to integrate two very promising rookies.

Maybe that's a message the coach and team need to hear. They aren't getting it done.



Also, Conner Garland was a fifth round pick. I'm not saying that I think our fifth round pick this year will be great, but I'd rather have a fifth round pick and a shot at success or failure than see the same warm bodies play out the string. It's at least another roll of the dice.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Also, Conner Garland was a fifth round pick. I'm not saying that I think our fifth round pick this year will be great, but I'd rather have a fifth round pick and a shot at success or failure than see the same warm bodies play out the string. It's at least another roll of the dice.

The EHM-playing GM in me agrees with you wholeheartedly. Had it been me, I'd have probably traded Chip and Grossmann too.

But I see why Maloney didn't do it, and there's a rationale there that makes sense even if I'm not 100% in agreement with it.

 

[CC96]

They can do that after the deadline as much as they want without having to trade anyone. Remember, the roster limits are gone and so long as the Coyotes stay under the cap (HA!) they can audition their entire 50-man roster if they choose.

Technically yes, but do you really think Dave Tippett is going to give them a shot, when he has the option of playing Chipchura instead?

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Technically yes, but do you really think Dave Tippett is going to give them a shot, when he has the option of playing Chipchura instead?

Yes, I actually do - even the most conservative coach is going to try out and evaluate whatever young players are on his late-season roster when he's faced with the prospect of using them in place of the UFAs who are leaving.

Problem is, Maloney hasn't called up Dauphin and just sent Gaudet back to Springfield, so there's no chance to play them yet. I don't expect that to last, though - I'm almost positive Wood will get his ELC soon, and when it's feasible DM will start bringing up guys from the minors to slot in.

 

[CC96]

Yes, I actually do - even the most conservative coach is going to try out and evaluate whatever young players are on his late-season roster when he's faced with the prospect of using them in place of the UFAs who are leaving.

Problem is, Maloney hasn't called up Dauphin and just sent Gaudet back to Springfield, so there's no chance to play them yet. I don't expect that to last, though - I'm almost positive Wood will get his ELC soon, and when it's feasible DM will start bringing up guys from the minors to slot in.

They're still talking about making the playoffs. I have virtually no confidence Dave will scratch the bums to try out a kid or two.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

They're still talking about making the playoffs. I have virtually no confidence Dave will scratch the bums to try out a kid or two.

Maloney said that they weren't throwing in the towel. That's all he said, and he only said it once on deadline day.

I think it's abundantly clear at this point that there's no way the team is going to make the playoffs.

 

[Dirty Old Man]

The value isn't in the draft picks, or trade return we receive. It's in auditioning players we have on our farm, who are on the borderline of being NHL players. Since our season is completely shot, now is the time to try them out. Especially in lieu of players like Chipchura, Gordon, and Grossman, all of whom (I hope to God) won't be here next year.

Isn't "our farm" a little thin already?

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Doan on Arizona Sports just now: "Newell Brown is the best assistant coach I've had in my career."

Says that he believes Tanguay is going be huge on the power play and that his hockey sense and skill are going to make themselves very noticeable as the season winds down.

Grain of salt, but who knows - I thought Ray Whitney was done when he came here and he obviously wasn't.