OT: Possible LIRR Strike **Tentative Deal Reached**

[TeamKidd]

A "unique skillset"? LIRR workers? I'd have to disagree there.

I'd also bet that the extent of union involvement of 95% or so is when they signed their union cards.

Any deal that these knuckleheads come up with should be mutually acceptable to both parties! It should only be unacceptable to anyone who has had to pay/ride the LIRR as a customer.

You dont think fixing and operating trains is a unique skill set? You really want Jenny from the block operating or fixing the train? we're not just talking about ticket clerks here.

And incidentally, do you have any concept as to how much commuter trains cost in other parts of the world? A lot are heavily subsidized by high taxes in europe but even so i just looked up a train from central norway to the airport (a 20 min ride) is 26 bucks. perspective is key when articulating points. Commuters bear the brunt of the cost (similar to school district tax payers) because we are unwilling to levy taxes at a higher level on a state (or country) wide scale to pay for these things. so you pay more. Exxon pays less. thats our system.

PS looks like the strike has been averted....

 

[The Underboss]

http://www.newsday.com/long-island/lirr-strike-averted-as-tentative-deal-reached-1.8828449

"The MTA and the unions representing 5,400 Long Island Rail Road workers, assisted by Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo, have reached a tentative deal to avert a crippling LIRR strike that would have begun Sunday, the governor said Thursday.

"This is a compromise by both parties after four long years," Cuomo said.
The contract calls for "fair compensation for valued employees," he said. "We want to make sure fares don't go up and the MTA has funds for repairs and to manage the system."

Under the deal, LIRR workers will get 17 percent raises over 6 1/2 years and "all employees will for the first time contribute to their health insurance costs, and new employees will have different wage progressions and pension plan contributions," according to the governor's office."

 

[stranger34]

http://www.newsday.com/long-island/lirr-strike-averted-as-tentative-deal-reached-1.8828449

"The MTA and the unions representing 5,400 Long Island Rail Road workers, assisted by Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo, have reached a tentative deal to avert a crippling LIRR strike that would have begun Sunday, the governor said Thursday.

"This is a compromise by both parties after four long years," Cuomo said.
The contract calls for "fair compensation for valued employees," he said. "We want to make sure fares don't go up and the MTA has funds for repairs and to manage the system."

Under the deal, LIRR workers will get 17 percent raises over 6 1/2 years and "all employees will for the first time contribute to their health insurance costs, and new employees will have different wage progressions and pension plan contributions," according to the governor's office."

Smart move by the union. When you look into how close the deal offered was to their demands they would have looked terrible to the public to strike on critical infrastructure.

 

[Strummergas]

http://www.newsday.com/long-island/lirr-strike-averted-as-tentative-deal-reached-1.8828449

"The MTA and the unions representing 5,400 Long Island Rail Road workers, assisted by Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo, have reached a tentative deal to avert a crippling LIRR strike that would have begun Sunday, the governor said Thursday.

"This is a compromise by both parties after four long years," Cuomo said.
The contract calls for "fair compensation for valued employees," he said. "We want to make sure fares don't go up and the MTA has funds for repairs and to manage the system."

Under the deal, LIRR workers will get 17 percent raises over 6 1/2 years and "all employees will for the first time contribute to their health insurance costs, and new employees will have different wage progressions and pension plan contributions," according to the governor's office."

2.5% average a year wage increase is not bad. Not great, but not terrible. Having to contribute to their health care coverage should have been expected. But I always cringe when I see a two-tier system for retirement and wage progressions introduced. It's a great way to create future dissension within the Union ranks.

 

[Hip Of Rick*]

It's amazing how pensions are still offered in today's world. You could hire 10000 new workers for the price of the 5400.

 

[TeamKidd]

2.5% average a year wage increase is not bad. Not great, but not terrible. Having to contribute to their health care coverage should have been expected. But I always cringe when I see a two-tier system for retirement and wage progressions introduced. It's a great way to create future dissension within the Union ranks.

yeah i've seen some teacher unions do that and i think they're insane for going along with that. As far as i understand it a major issue was the solvency of the pension for current employees, which would have been severely compromised by what the MTA was offering...

 

[TeamKidd]

It's amazing how pensions are still offered in today's world. You could hire 10000 new workers for the price of the 5400.

....and have starving elderly people living on social security. My fear is we are brewing a major generational problem in the private sector by not having sufficient pensions/allocations for old age. I would bet most peoples 401K wont last nearly as long as they think.

 

[Hip Of Rick*]

....and have starving elderly people living on social security. My fear is we are brewing a major generational problem in the private sector by not having sufficient pensions/allocations for old age. I would bet most peoples 401K wont last nearly as long as they think.

People are living for 30 plus years after they can retire from government jobs . The guy hole punching my ticket should not be entitled to retire at 50 with a million dollar pension. Guess who's pays for that...

The majority of the country does not get those cushy pensions. Retirement and healthcare for the elderly are huge issues. Giving out more government pensions doesn't solve it, it makes the problem worse.

 

[TeamKidd]

People are living for 30 plus years after they can retire from government jobs . The guy hole punching my ticket should not be entitled to retire at 50 with a million dollar pension. Guess who's pays for that...

The majority of the country does not get those cushy pensions. Retirement and healthcare for the elderly are huge issues. Giving out more government pensions doesn't solve it, it makes the problem worse.

You read too much newsday. stop believing what you are told and inform yourself. this is a gross distortion of the situation.

I guess we should just let old people starve and die.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railroad_Retirement_Board

The U.S. Railroad Retirement Board (or 'RRB') is an independent agency in the executive branch of the United States government created in 1935[1] to administer a social insurance program providing retirement benefits to the country's railroad workers.

The RRB serves U.S. railroad workers and their families, and administers retirement, survivor, unemployment, and sickness benefits. Consequently, railroad workers do not participate in the United States Social Security program. The RRB's headquarters are in Chicago, Illinois, with field offices throughout the country.


Railroad retirement benefit payments are financed primarily by payroll taxes paid by railroad employers and their employees. Since 2002, funds not needed immediately for benefit payments or administrative expenses have been invested by an independent National Railroad Retirement Investment Trust, which qualifies as non profit 501(c)(28). As of September 30, 2009, Trust-managed assets and RRB assets held in reserve totaled almost $25 billion

I gather most people are impervious to facts, but there they are anyway for the .02% of you with a rational mind.

 

[On Edge]

You dont think fixing and operating trains is a unique skill set? You really want Jenny from the block operating or fixing the train? we're not just talking about ticket clerks here.

And incidentally, do you have any concept as to how much commuter trains cost in other parts of the world? A lot are heavily subsidized by high taxes in europe but even so i just looked up a train from central norway to the airport (a 20 min ride) is 26 bucks. perspective is key when articulating points. Commuters bear the brunt of the cost (similar to school district tax payers) because we are unwilling to levy taxes at a higher level on a state (or country) wide scale to pay for these things. so you pay more. Exxon pays less. thats our system.

PS looks like the strike has been averted....

I have to say I immediately thought of Liam Neeson in "Taken". Now that is a unique skill set.

Seriously though, I know nothing about what it takes to be a RR engineer or what kind of education or training you need. Is it "Jenny from the block" with 90 days of tech training or is it similar to what an airline pilot has to go through? I have no idea so I probably shouldn't have commented but it is just my initial reaction.

That said, I wonder what the service levels, quality of the trains, cleanliness of the trains you get in Norway compare to LIRR. I'd bet big difference.

 

[RWWallpaper]

People are living for 30 plus years after they can retire from government jobs . The guy hole punching my ticket should not be entitled to retire at 50 with a million dollar pension. Guess who's pays for that...

The majority of the country does not get those cushy pensions. Retirement and healthcare for the elderly are huge issues. Giving out more government pensions doesn't solve it, it makes the problem worse.

You show me a municipality with an awful fiscal outlook, and I'll show you a long standing, incestuous relationship between unions and those they get to negotiate with after stuffing their campaign coffers. What benefit and pension packages have done to States like NY and CA would blow your hair back...and here's the kicker...it's only going to get worse from here.

...and I'm not talking about the MTA but I'm very sensitive with regard to PUBLIC unions. If a private company wants to allow people to organize, and my money's not involved, by all means, have at it...but when my tax payer dollars are in play, now it's a problem.

P.S. I just hope they don't ramp up the MTA tax on small business again. As a small business owner, I never quite understood why it was my responsibility to help bail out the MTA. Would they help me out with a few bucks if I were in dire straights? I think not...God damn joke the whole thing...

 

[stranger34]

....and have starving elderly people living on social security. My fear is we are brewing a major generational problem in the private sector by not having sufficient pensions/allocations for old age. I would bet most peoples 401K wont last nearly as long as they think.

Agree 100%. The 401K system has a shell game quality to it. I think a lot of people my age just contribute to it and think oh it will take care of my retirement.

I for one have no faith that I will ever truly be able to retire on my 401K. I contribute for the employer match because I see no reason to leave that money on the table.

 

[stranger34]

People are living for 30 plus years after they can retire from government jobs . The guy hole punching my ticket should not be entitled to retire at 50 with a million dollar pension. Guess who's pays for that...

The majority of the country does not get those cushy pensions. Retirement and healthcare for the elderly are huge issues. Giving out more government pensions doesn't solve it, it makes the problem worse.

Teachers and cops are one thing, this is another.

I am appalled by the by the pay and benefits the LIRR hole punchers get relative to the rest of society. There's no hazard pay or greater good in play here. I wonder if it's a hard job to get / have to know someone with an in... It sounds like they are compensated very close to the NYPD & FDNY which all things considered is an absolute joke.

I haven't had to buy a monthly in over 2 years but i probably will have to starting in October. Man that is going to piss me off.

 

[Hip Of Rick*]

You show me a municipality with an awful fiscal outlook, and I'll show you a long standing, incestuous relationship between unions and those they get to negotiate with after stuffing their campaign coffers. What benefit and pension packages have done to States like NY and CA would blow your hair back...and here's the kicker...it's only going to get worse from here.

...and I'm not talking about the MTA but I'm very sensitive with regard to PUBLIC unions. If a private company wants to allow people to organize, and my money's not involved, by all means, have at it...but when my tax payer dollars are in play, now it's a problem.

P.S. I just hope they don't ramp up the MTA tax on small business again. As a small business owner, I never quite understood why it was my responsibility to help bail out the MTA. Would they help me out with a few bucks if I were in dire straights? I think not...God damn joke the whole thing...

Agreed. Public pensions just destroy the tax payer. Take a teacher, secretary, cop, railroad worker etc.. have them put their years in government work. They retire at 50 and die at 80. Say they make 40k a year from the pension. That is 1.2 million paid to an individual by taxpayers and the taxpayer sees zero benefit. If they live until 90 that 1.6 million...

That does not even include the health benefits... That could probably take that 1.2 number to 1.4ish

No new government hires should get a pension. Its beyond silly, and plenty of people would be willing to take the job with no pension. When the unions say no to that, which they obviously would who cares. Hire elsewhere for a PUBLIC job and save the tax payers 100s of millions and the job will be done just as well if not better than before. The government would be able to afford more employees.

 

[Hip Of Rick*]

Agree 100%. The 401K system has a shell game quality to it. I think a lot of people my age just contribute to it and think oh it will take care of my retirement.

I for one have no faith that I will ever truly be able to retire on my 401K. I contribute for the employer match because I see no reason to leave that money on the table.

The 401k system is not sufficient at all. Its crazy to think a 401k alone will take of ones retirement.

I also contribute to my 401k so I don't leave money on the table. I think alot of people in my age bracket don't even do that.

 

[Strummergas]

yeah i've seen some teacher unions do that and i think they're insane for going along with that. As far as i understand it a major issue was the solvency of the pension for current employees, which would have been severely compromised by what the MTA was offering...

Companies have unions by the balls on these type of issues. Unions reluctantly have to concede to these offerings in order to gain other things in the negotiation process because the current constituency is usually more concerned with what THEY already have as opposed to what future members who haven't even been hired yet will wind up getting. No union is going to strike over what the "unborn" will wind up receiving. What they fail to realize however, this that over time there will be more members with the "new" package than the "old". If the company were to bring up this issue again in the future, and if at that time the percentage of membership under the "new" is significantly higher than the "old", then the Union will have no choice but to do the bidding of the majority of the membership; even if it means that people will lose their pensions 20+ years down the road. I hope they were at least able to negotiate an "evergreen" clause for this issue in order to protect those under the old package until it's time to retire. If not, they're not out of the woods on the issue of their retirement package even though they may think they are.

 

[Strummergas]

Teachers and cops are one thing, this is another.

I am appalled by the by the pay and benefits the LIRR hole punchers get relative to the rest of society. There's no hazard pay or greater good in play here. I wonder if it's a hard job to get / have to know someone with an in... It sounds like they are compensated very close to the NYPD & FDNY which all things considered is an absolute joke.

I haven't had to buy a monthly in over 2 years but i probably will have to starting in October. Man that is going to piss me off.

If anything is a joke it's that the NYPD and FDNY don't make more money than they do.

 

[TeamKidd]

Agreed. Public pensions just destroy the tax payer. Take a teacher, secretary, cop, railroad worker etc.. have them put their years in government work. They retire at 50 and die at 80. Say they make 40k a year from the pension. That is 1.2 million paid to an individual by taxpayers and the taxpayer sees zero benefit. If they live until 90 that 1.6 million...

That does not even include the health benefits... That could probably take that 1.2 number to 1.4ish

No new government hires should get a pension. Its beyond silly, and plenty of people would be willing to take the job with no pension. When the unions say no to that, which they obviously would who cares. Hire elsewhere for a PUBLIC job and save the tax payers 100s of millions and the job will be done just as well if not better than before. The government would be able to afford more employees.

Did you even bother to read what i wrote about pensions? Seriously man. The vast majority of pensions are PAID for BY WORKERS and employers, not the tax payer. Put down the fox kool aid and educate yourself you are so wrong its not even funny.

We sit here and argue about this and meanwhile an army of lobbyists are invading congress and getting sweetheart deals worth BILLIONS for their companies. They are playing a shell game, cant you see that?

 

[Hip Of Rick*]

Did you even bother to read what i wrote about pensions? Seriously man. The vast majority of pensions are PAID for BY WORKERS and employers, not the tax payer. Put down the fox kool aid and educate yourself you are so wrong its not even funny.

We sit here and argue about this and meanwhile an army of lobbyists are invading congress and getting sweetheart deals worth BILLIONS for their companies. They are playing a shell game, cant you see that?

Its wikipedia... not exactly a real source

Big business is corrupt, the government is also big business

 

[TeamKidd]

Its wikipedia... not exactly a real source

Big business is corrupt, the government is also big business

You evaded the point. that information is accurate, Wikipedia or not. The only time taxpayers get into the fray is when pensions become insolvent, which did happen during the economic collapse due to *******s on wallstreet making the stock market crash. The amount of money the taxpayer spent to bail out some pensions pales in comparison to the amount of money we spent to bail out the banks.

 

[BossyMVP]

Agreed. Public pensions just destroy the tax payer. Take a teacher, secretary, cop, railroad worker etc.. have them put their years in government work. They retire at 50 and die at 80. Say they make 40k a year from the pension. That is 1.2 million paid to an individual by taxpayers and the taxpayer sees zero benefit. If they live until 90 that 1.6 million...

That does not even include the health benefits... That could probably take that 1.2 number to 1.4ish

No new government hires should get a pension. Its beyond silly, and plenty of people would be willing to take the job with no pension. When the unions say no to that, which they obviously would who cares. Hire elsewhere for a PUBLIC job and save the tax payers 100s of millions and the job will be done just as well if not better than before. The government would be able to afford more employees.

So the solution is...No pensions? So I guess we can have 401k's? No, b/c they will be destroyed by the corrupt investors who are in charge of them. So luckily we have social security? Wait, no. That's gone too in about 30 years. So basically the answer is when we turn 65...hope we die by 66.

 

[PK Cronin]

People are living for 30 plus years after they can retire from government jobs . The guy hole punching my ticket should not be entitled to retire at 50 with a million dollar pension. Guess who's pays for that...

The majority of the country does not get those cushy pensions. Retirement and healthcare for the elderly are huge issues. Giving out more government pensions doesn't solve it, it makes the problem worse.

Agreed. Public pensions just destroy the tax payer. Take a teacher, secretary, cop, railroad worker etc.. have them put their years in government work. They retire at 50 and die at 80. Say they make 40k a year from the pension. That is 1.2 million paid to an individual by taxpayers and the taxpayer sees zero benefit. If they live until 90 that 1.6 million...

That does not even include the health benefits... That could probably take that 1.2 number to 1.4ish

No new government hires should get a pension. Its beyond silly, and plenty of people would be willing to take the job with no pension. When the unions say no to that, which they obviously would who cares. Hire elsewhere for a PUBLIC job and save the tax payers 100s of millions and the job will be done just as well if not better than before. The government would be able to afford more employees.

The 401k system is not sufficient at all. Its crazy to think a 401k alone will take of ones retirement.

I also contribute to my 401k so I don't leave money on the table. I think alot of people in my age bracket don't even do that.

You and I would really get along on this topic.

Did you even bother to read what i wrote about pensions? Seriously man. The vast majority of pensions are PAID for BY WORKERS and employers, not the tax payer. Put down the fox kool aid and educate yourself you are so wrong its not even funny.

We sit here and argue about this and meanwhile an army of lobbyists are invading congress and getting sweetheart deals worth BILLIONS for their companies. They are playing a shell game, cant you see that?

primarily by payroll taxes paid by railroad employers and their employees

Primarily does not mean entirely.

It negatively impacts the consumer either way, raising the cost of the product, when the actual cost to produce the product isn't going up. The longer people live, the more money they are going to require from their pension, which will be paid for by the working members of the union/organization, who will then want more money as compensation, then will threaten a strike until they get it, then the cost gets passed on to the consumer.

Pensions/Social Security are really interesting, and I'm generally opposed to them. I'm alright with retirement funds that people can set for themselves, but to be guaranteed [x] amount of dollars for the rest of your life after you've worked for [y] amount of years just doesn't add up. The government shouldn't be in the business of caring for old people. Old people should be in the business of caring for themselves and planning for the future.

 

[Hip Of Rick*]

You evaded the point. that information is accurate, Wikipedia or not. The only time taxpayers get into the fray is when pensions become insolvent, which did happen during the economic collapse due to *******s on wallstreet making the stock market crash. The amount of money the taxpayer spent to bail out some pensions pales in comparison to the amount of money we spent to bail out the banks.

I am not as educated as I should be on this topic. But to me common sense does not add up to the taxpayers not contributing money

Maybe my math and logic is wrong so Ill put my thoughts below. The numbers are off but I don't think they are wildly off


A guy punching tickets on LIRR starts at 20 years old and works 30 years retiring at 50. He contributes lets say 10% yearly (High amount!?) of his 50k salary towards a pension fund. He dies when he is 80. He made 1.5 million over his career and contributed 150,000 towards his pension. Say he gets 40k a year as his pension that is 1.2 million. So either they invest better than everyone else on the planet or money is coming from the outside ... the tax payers, train riders

That taxpaying train rider can probably save an extra 15k in their life to contribute to their own retirement, if they did not have to support others

 

[Hip Of Rick*]

So the solution is...No pensions? So I guess we can have 401k's? No, b/c they will be destroyed by the corrupt investors who are in charge of them. So luckily we have social security? Wait, no. That's gone too in about 30 years. So basically the answer is when we turn 65...hope we die by 66.

Government pensions work for a small % of the population, The majority of the population helps pay for them while the majority of the population has no pension.

For example the average person will pay say ~10k in extra taxes in life just to support someone elses pension. Wouldn't that money be better spent on themselves rather than some random government employee who retired 15 years ago?

 

[BroadwayJay*]

If anything is a joke it's that the NYPD and FDNY don't make more money than they do.

I have a client who was an NYPD officer, retired, and later got into an incident where he unloaded his service revolver into an off-duty officer from another law enforcement branch following a minor dispute.

Now he collects 90k a year from his pension while in an upstate facility, which is impossible to spend through commissary, and he'll continue to collect it for the rest of his life. When he gets out (in his early 60s) he'll be close to a millionaire.

NYPD income and pension are quite sufficient, in my view.