Poll: Thoughts on Bill Peters

[My Special Purpose]

So, I guess it depends on if you feel we have the players to win at a better rate than we're currently winning. As somebody said above (too lazy to scroll up, sorry), we said we'd be a playoff team with league average goaltending. Well, our goaltending has gotten *worse* and we're still in the hunt. Peters obviously doesn't feel we have the players to do any better than this. Francis evidently disagrees.

I guess whether you think he should stay or go comes down to how much of the blame for the off-seasons from Skinner, Rask, Faulk, Darling and Slavin is his fault.

I'm personally starting to side with him. He takes a lot of crap for his line combos, but is there really a great way to put together our motley crew of forwards? I don't think we can blame Darling on him. And Faulk, Rask, Skinner and Slavin have all played fantastically previously under Peters, so I feel that's on the players, and not the coach.

If we miss the playoffs this year, Peters probably gets fired. And I don't think that's a bad move for anyone.

 

[Unsustainable]

 

[Ole Gil]

I just have a feeling we're going to end up firing Peters, cycling through 2 more coaches while we wait to put together a decent collection of talent, and then finally draft top-3 a couple of times in a row and miraculously find a great coach right after that. And meanwhile Bill Peters will be sitting there with 3 rings in a big market coaching superstars.

Maybe assistant coaching superstars. I can't imagine why anyone would give Bill Peters a job. There's nothing that points towards him being a good coach. And there's plenty that indicates he may be a bad coach.

 

[Svechhammer]

I can't blame this year on Peters. His frustration with the team has gotten to the point where he's now openly asking for personnel changes. For a guy who is usually fairly reserved, that's extremely telling.

We went into the last offseason knowing we needed 2 things to make us good. 1 - We needed an upgrade at goalie. 2 - We needed a 1C.

We went out and traded to bring in Darling. Should have been a good move, but its been proven to be a complete disaster. Considering he was supposed to be an improvement over Eddie Lack, who Francis also acquired and then proceeded to watch crumble... its not a good look for the GM, to say the least.

Then, after spending a lot of time telling the fans and media here how we were totally ready to go all in to get that 1C, and we were prepared to use draft picks and dangle one of our defensive prospects to do it, what happens? Absolutely nothing. Still don't have that 1C, even when there were other teams out there practically trying to give away players who look to fill that kind of role. We did nothing.

So what should have been an offseason that finally got us pointed in the right direction turned into one where we somehow got worse at goalie, ignored our biggest weakness on offense, brought in a 36 year old winger and a couple bottom line players, and then proceeded to tell everyone that "oh, seriously, this is the year everyone. We're totally making the playoffs this time". And then, when things don't change and we see the same play we have gotten used to with the team, we're stuck sitting on our hands not even making any reasonable callups from the AHL.

Like, we really should have seen this coming. Peters was given chicken shit and expected to make a 5 course 5* quality chicken salad. He deserves a pass on this season because its not really reasonable to have expected this to have changed.

Francis has 2 months to save his job. Unfortunately for Peters, if Francis goes, he's likely out as well, as any new GM would want their own guy. Feel bad for him, he's not really been given the tools to succeed here.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Maybe assistant coaching superstars. I can't imagine why anyone would give Bill Peters a job. There's nothing that points towards him being a good coach. And there's plenty that indicates he may be a bad coach.

That’s what people were saying about Paul Maurice when we fired him (again) and he’s now on his 4th winning season out of 5 in Winnipeg, coaching a top-3 team in the league.

I could absolutely see Peters taking a similar track, considering anyone with eyeballs can tell that the Hurricanes aren’t a “good” team on paper regardless of who’s coaching. He’ll find a head coaching job somewhere, and at that point we’ll see what his system looks like when actual talent is included in the lineup.

 

[Stickpucker]

Does anyone believe this is the best play you can get out of Slavin/Pesce/Faulk/Hanifin? Or lindholm/Rask/Skinner?

I don't trust that Peters is getting all there is to get out of the talent.

I agree. A lot of players have career worst years under Peters.

 

[Stickpucker]

I just have a feeling we're going to end up firing Peters, cycling through 2 more coaches while we wait to put together a decent collection of talent, and then finally draft top-3 a couple of times in a row and miraculously find a great coach right after that. And meanwhile Bill Peters will be sitting there with 3 rings in a big market coaching superstars.

This brings up a question I've had...what roster today do you think would best fit Peters system?

 

[Stickpucker]

That's kind of where I'm at. I'm a bit torn, as I agree with Wally that I don't think it's coincidence that so many players aren't performing to their capability and I have to question how much of that is on the coach. And while I acknowledge that we have a lack of talent on offense, I don't think he has a system that is conducive to creating offense either, and in today's NHL, that's the name of the game. The saying "defense wins championships" really hasn't been the case in the NHL in recent years and I'm not convinced Peter's can create offense unless he has really elite talent.

If it looks like he lost the team the rest of this year though, I'd get rid of him. I also wouldn't wait long next year if they are struggling out of the gate to get rid of him either.

I would go a step further and say I think players like Seguin, Been, Patty Kane, Barzal, Nylander, and Marner would all look a good bit worse playing for Peters.

I really wonder if a new coach could elevate Lindholms game.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

That’s what people were saying about Paul Maurice when we fired him (again) and he’s now on his 4th winning season out of 5 in Winnipeg, coaching a top-3 team in the league.

I could absolutely see Peters taking a similar track, considering anyone with eyeballs can tell that the Hurricanes aren’t a “good” team on paper regardless of who’s coaching. He’ll find a head coaching job somewhere, and at that point we’ll see what his system looks like when actual talent is included in the lineup.

Maurice had coached a team to a Cup Final and another to an ECF so he had some level of success to his resume.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I guess I'll eat crow if I'm wrong, but I don't get people saying "Francis is on the hot seat" and "Francis has 2 months to save his job" etc..

GMs get measured by long term success, coaches get measured by short term success. Also, Francis (and Rutherford for that matter), IMO, was held back by PK's purse strings.

If this team doesn't turn it around next year, I'll be shocked if Peters isn't gone before Francis.

 

[JCLA]

Francis asked for 5 years and we are at 4 years. I'll give him his 5, no matter how antsy i'm getting. He's gotten us on the cusp at 4. Hopefully we can finish strong and get there ahead of schedule or make it in time for his deadline.

However, if we make it ahead of schedule, I hope that he doesn't think he can just sit on his hands this off-season. Because in reality, where our team is at we are probably on a six year schedule to becoming a consistent contender and we are only in contention still because the all the wild card teams have simultaneously shit the bed.

I'm on board with keeping Peters on the same schedule as Francis.

 

[Chrispy]

I guess I'll eat crow if I'm wrong, but I don't get people saying "Francis is on the hot seat" and "Francis has 2 months to save his job" etc..

GMs get measured by long term success, coaches get measured by short term success. Also, Francis (and Rutherford for that matter), IMO, was held back by PK's purse strings.

If this team doesn't turn it around next year, I'll be shocked if Peters isn't gone before Francis.

I can see Dundon pushing for a big splashy move and Francis balking at the price, which leads to a change. Barring that, I agree it's more likely that Francis gets one more shot with a new coach. And I think it's likely Dundon's input is to bring in a more offensive style with that coach.

 

[NotOpie]

I'm of the mind to give him the rest of this year and have a quick hook at the beginning of next, even though I'm not sure he's in the process of losing the room. The team needs consistency. Rask, Lindholm, Skinner, and Faulk need to get back to their career averages (or in Lindy's case continue last year's trajectory).

Something happened over the last 5 weeks. We are 6-8-1 over that span. 7 of those games were on the road, yet we won 4 of those tilts. 2-5-1 at home over that span is curious at best. This is a young team and as such, one would think the coach has a bit more responsibility to get players up for the games. But leadership in the room has responsibility as well.

In the end, this is shaping up to be a coach killing collapse that has as much to do with team leadership as it does coaching. Yes, Peters has significant responsibility for those results, but so do guys like Faulk, Skinner, and Staal. As the putative team leaders, they have responsibility to not just perform, but to provide guidance and examples. If Peters isn't holding those guys accountable for that, then he's failing at a significant coaching responsibility. If he's not getting through to the vast majority of the team, then he's failing as a coach.

In the end, I think we're right where we were at the end of January. If the team goes on a little run of 4 or 5 games, then who knows. If not, then Peters is likely on the hot seat....talent deficit or not.

 

[Ole Gil]

That’s what people were saying about Paul Maurice when we fired him (again) and he’s now on his 4th winning season out of 5 in Winnipeg, coaching a top-3 team in the league.

I could absolutely see Peters taking a similar track, considering anyone with eyeballs can tell that the Hurricanes aren’t a “good” team on paper regardless of who’s coaching. He’ll find a head coaching job somewhere, and at that point we’ll see what his system looks like when actual talent is included in the lineup.

Paul Maurice took the Whalers/Canes to the playoffs 3 times in his first 6 seasons, including a trip to the cup finals. Then took the Canes to the ECF in 09. Peter's head coaching resume has no achievements yet.

And I don't believe the Canes are bad on paper. They have 9 forwards who are 40+ point capable, with a few capable of 50 or 60+, and decent depth behind them. They've got 4 young dmen with a lot of talent and good depth behind them. Darling is garbage which probably isn't Peters fault, but he was arguably allowed to be garbage way more than he should have, which is Peters fault.

I think this team can still make the playoffs, but it'll be despite Peters, not because of him. I think there's a lot being left on the table in terms of what's being gotten out of this lineup.

 

[ONO94]

In the last few games we have seen blown coverage after blown coverage by both forwards and defensemen. Basically from the first game we have seen bad pinches, missed assignments, passes to opposing players and terrible play with the lead. I would be hard pressed to say any of that is unrelated to coaching. These aren't things that are happening because the Canes are bad or slow or weak--these are recognition, timing and system plays going wrong. And the people teaching the system are the coaches. Whether it is bad coaching or players not suited to the Peters system or players simply not buying what the coaching staff is selling--all of it leads back to the coaches. I'm not saying that the Canes will instantly become a playoff team without the coaching staff--all I know is that they don't look like a playoff team with this coaching staff.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Paul Maurice took the Whalers/Canes to the playoffs 3 times in his first 6 seasons, including a trip to the cup finals. Then took the Canes to the ECF in 09. Peter's head coaching resume has no achievements yet.

Hey, you don’t have to convince me. I’m a “Maurice is a good coach who has lived with horrible teams” guy.

I think there's a lot being left on the table in terms of what's being gotten out of this lineup.

I mean... we have one of the absolute worst center groups in the league (bottom 3 without question) and one of the worst goalie tandems and a mediocre group of wingers and a very young defense. And we’re a game out of a playoff spot.

How much could we possibly be leaving on the table? Back when we were young and optimistic and making preseason predictions, pretty much everyone agreed that we would be on the bubble. We still actually are on the bubble, in spite of several players performing like a flaming bowl of ass. I’d chalk that up to at least decent coaching along the way.

 

[Unsustainable]

On Francis.

Need: Goalie. Trade and sign Lack, Trade and sign Darling: Neither a success.

Center: Ryan, Rask, Kruger?

Goal Scoring Wings: Stempiak and Williams

I know the budget was tight, but we aren’t hitting on much from the bargain bin.

 

[tarheelhockey]

This brings up a question I've had...what roster today do you think would best fit Peters system?

I’d have a hard time making that call out of 30 candidates. Clearly his system is built to emphasize possession, non-physical positional defense, and an expectation that the goalie will make the first save. So I guess whatever team is stocked with good skaters/puckhandlers, smart defensemen, and an actual #1 goalie.

 

[MinJaBen]

I’d have a hard time making that call out of 30 candidates. Clearly his system is built to emphasize possession, non-physical positional defense, and an expectation that the goalie will make the first save. So I guess whatever team is stocked with good skaters/puckhandlers, smart defensemen, and an actual #1 goalie.

St. Louis seems like it would be a great fit for Peters.

 

[Ole Gil]

I mean... we have one of the absolute worst center groups in the league (bottom 3 without question) and one of the worst goalie tandems and a mediocre group of wingers and a very young defense. And we’re a game out of a playoff spot.

How much could we possibly be leaving on the table? Back when we were young and optimistic and making preseason predictions, pretty much everyone agreed that we would be on the bubble. We still actually are on the bubble, in spite of several players performing like a flaming bowl of ass. I’d chalk that up to at least decent coaching along the way.

We can just list players. Do you think this is as good as Faulk, Rask, Skinner, Slavin, Hanifin, and Lindholm can be? To which you say, but is that Peters or the player?

I say it's a suspiciously large number of players. And we have that Eric Staal thing on Peters resume. That was such an extreme example of getting so little out of such a constantly productive talent, I'm always going to be suspicious of BP.

 

[tarheelhockey]

We can just list players. Do you think this is as good as Faulk, Rask, Skinner, Slavin, Hanifin, and Lindholm can be? To which you say, but is that Peters or the player?

I say it's a suspiciously large number of players. And we have that Eric Staal thing on Peters resume. That was such an extreme example of getting so little out of such a constantly productive talent, I'm always going to be suspicious of BP.

C'mon, Eric quit on this team before Peters even got here.

As for our current players. If we're going to blame Peters for 2017-18 Skinner, are we giving him credit for 2016-17 Skinner? If we're going to blame him for Lindholm falling off, are we crediting him for Aho breaking out? Should he be getting more out of Rask? Well, that depends on what you think Rask actually is. I don't look at him and think "there's a guy who should be playing top-6 minutes", but when the next option is Derek Ryan, we have what we have.

And yeah, I actually do think Slavin and Hanifin have had solid seasons if we take a step back and look at them for what they are --- over-slotted young defensemen asked to carry a team, which is total madness if you think about it.

 

[garnetpalmetto]

This brings up a question I've had...what roster today do you think would best fit Peters system?

And I'll ask the corollary question here - what coach today do you think would best fit this roster?

 

[RodTheBawd]

Dundon might be impatient, but I don't think he's dumb. Francis is too beloved by this fan base for him to not give him a full year to turn it around. Peters would be much more likely to go, but I don't think he pulls that trigger until a few months into next year (if necessary).

 

[NotOpie]

I say it's a suspiciously large number of players. And we have that Eric Staal thing on Peters resume. That was such an extreme example of getting so little out of such a constantly productive talent, I'm always going to be suspicious of BP.

So maybe we can say Eric gave up on the team, but the reality is he declined more precipitously under Peters. I'm not attributing it to him, but the Bill Peters system also produced 31 point Jeff Skinner the same year Eric put up 54 points. Sure a year later you had Rask's break out year and last year showcased Skinner's best along with Lindy and Aho's big break outs. So it is really tough to say.

It just feels like, for whatever reason, the guys either tune out Peters periodically, or lose faith in the system (which is more likely in my mind). In the end, you can't totally absolve Bill Peters, but you cannot take it off of certain players either.

 

[MinJaBen]

Can someone please tell me what they see in Peters that is so compelling? I get that he is better than Muller, but it's Muller. And I know Babcock likes and respects him. And his system wins Corsi pretty routinely. But he was never a head coach, talented offensive players don't thrive in his system, the defensive system does suppress shot volume but at the expense of odd man rushes or shots from the slot, goalies seem to have their worst years when coming here from another system, and he is not consistent with his self proclaimed ice-time motivational tool.

I don't hate him, but I won't shed a tear if we move on.