Players that should have Won the Conn Smythe?

[c9777666]

I remember Mario Lemieux saying in 1992 he actually thought Barrasso should have won the Conn Smythe.

Not saying Barrasso stood out ala other Penguins (i.e. Recchi/Stevens in 1991), but given how he came up big in the games they had to win (down 3-1 and 2-1 to WSH/NYR, respectively)..... would have been an interesting possibility.

 

[seventieslord]

It's interesting we have multiple posters saying Vernon didn't deserve the award in 1997, and multiple posters saying he DID deserve it (when he didn't win it) in 1989.

Vernon is sort of like Bernie Nicholls or Pierre Turgeon -- it's hard to get a read on how average / good / great he really was. I watched the guy play a LOT of hockey games (two or three times I watched him live at the Saddledome when I was a kid), and I still don't really know. I feel like blaming him for the early-90s' Flames' choke-jobs is unfair... but then again, he wasn't part of the solution either... except when he was.

Two remarkable things about Vernon: (i) he played for 4 NHL franchises, and had winning records with all 4 [how many goalies in history can say that, I wonder?]; (ii) he was the starter for two Stanley Cup winning franchises [also very rare, I'd guess, and puts him in some elite company].


I know it's not necessarily 'history' to talk about spring 2016, but do History-Board posters think Sid Crosby deserved his Conn Smythe last spring? I sort-of have a problem when a high-scoring forward doesn't score in the Finals and wins the Conn Smythe. It just seems wrong.

With Vernon, it's a little bit of a Giguere-like career. If you're just into "accomplishment counting" he looks really good. Stack up 2 cups, another 2 finals, a vezina runner up, a smythe, Those are all pretty good. But if you like consistent, game-to-game or season-to-season consistency, you're not going to like him. Those six accomplishments occurred in four seasons. 1989 was the only season he played at a level very much above league average (save percentage wise), and the four trips to the finals were only times he played more than 9 playoff games in a year. The dropoffs are just so drastic. Bill Ranford is another, as is Mike Richter.

Guys on the other end of the spectrum, who don't look great from an "accomplishment counting" standpoint, are Joseph, Vachon, Vanbiesbrouck, Lundqvist, Liut, Burke, Nabokov, and even someone like Vokoun, all of whom have less than 2 "accomplishments" (if you count a trip to the finals or a top-2 vezina vote an accomplishment) but were more likely to be better than Vernon if you just grabbed each of them on a random day during their careers, but for the most part didn't reach the peaks he very briefly reached.

 

[Datsyukian Deke]

I always believed Osgood in '08.

When he came in for Hasek in Game 4 in Round 1 vs the Preds, it was an entirely different team from then on out.

Colorado learned that the following round.

 

[Moose Head]

Food for thought.

Ironically, and nobody seem's to remember this but back then Sport magazine also handed out it's own playoff MVP award with the recipient receiving a new car.

In 1976, Reggie Leach won the Conn Smythe, but Sport magazine named Larry Robinson as the playoffs MVP.

I guess Sport magazine gave it to him because he was the biggest symbol that the habs were not going to be intimidated by the flyers.

Personally, I don't think he was even the habs best defenseman that playoff.

 

[Giotrapani91]

I always believed Osgood in '08.

When he came in for Hasek in Game 4 in Round 1 vs the Preds, it was an entirely different team from then on out.

Colorado learned that the following round.

Personally I agree him and datsyuk were the two biggest snubs than what happened the year after. They gave it to a Russian Malkin

 

[AfroThunder396]

Keith or Crawford should have won over Kane in 2013, Kane left a strong final impression but was never factor at all for the Hawks until Game 7 WCF.

 

[sharkhawk]

2013--Crawford

 

[flyersfan018]

It's a shame Briere was on the losing side in 2010. Probably one of the most incredible playoff performances I've ever seen.

 

[SirKillalot]

Alfredsson in 2007.

They lost the final 4-1. They weren't even close to winning.

I always believed Osgood in '08.

When he came in for Hasek in Game 4 in Round 1 vs the Preds, it was an entirely different team from then on out.

Colorado learned that the following round.

It wasn't anything close to a snub that he didn't win though. Yes, he was in the running. But! That Zetterberg won was absolutely fair & a very good decision.

Osgood would have won it in '09 though, if they had won that 7th game.


For me, Kessel should have won last year. I don't believe they win or for that matter get to the final without him and that HBK-line.

 

[Giotrapani91]

Keith or Crawford should have won over Kane in 2013, Kane left a strong final impression but was never factor at all for the Hawks until Game 7 WCF.

You know who didn't get a lot of credit for the award is Bickel.

 

[tjcurrie]

I'd say Mullen In 89, fedorov im 02, modano, and lehtinen in 1999 brodeur in 2000. As well as potvin in 81, byfuglien in 2010, Blake in 01 best d-man on that team. Beliveau in 69, selanne in 07, and stillman in 2006.

Lehtinen? No

Modano I wouldn't necessarily say SHOULD have (though it could be argued) but definitely COULD have.

If I were to pick another Stars player who SHOULD have, it'd probably be Eddie Belfour.

 

[Ducks in a row]

Niedermayer in 2003.
Giguere in 2007.

Funny how that works.

That aside, I would say Fedorov in 1997 was the biggest snub. I really don't understand how Vernon won it. Did the voters just give it to the goalie by default because the Wings were such a great team? Was there still lingering resentment against Russian players?

Also, Brindamour should have gotten it in 2006. He was the man who made that Canes team work. Staal would have been a better pick than Ward too. Seems like the main reason they gave it to Ward was that Gerber was so bad.

Giguere was the reason why Ducks made it as far as they did in the 2003 playoffs that is why he won and I agree with it. Conn Smythe shouldn't just go to a player from a Cup winning team. Giguere started and won 1 game in round 1 don't agree with him being picked at all.

Here's just some for me that can irk me sometimes:

Potvin could/should have won in '81 (although Goring did have a remarkable playoff)

Gretzky in '84 (you have to wonder how Messier was picked over him. Maybe the voting was done before the final game when Gretzky scored two key goals? Even though Gretzky was better)

Sakic in '01 - he carried the team when Forsberg went down. Roy was unspectacular in the first two rounds

Yzerman in '02 - Arguably you could say they intentionally gave it to a European I can remember Cherry saying afterwards that they "have to accomodate everyone" just thought Yzerman explemplified everything a leader should be that year

Staal in '06, or BrindAmour

Giguere, Getzlaf, Selanne or Pronger were all better than Niedermayer in '07


BTW could all of the homers quit it with the whining about Giguere in '03? I have never seen a playoff year where a person had the Smythe wrapped up after three rounds regardless of what he did in the finals. I have said before that unless Giguere crapped the bed in the finals he would win it, win or lose. Remember, he helped stretch it to a 7 game series. The '03 Ducks rode his coattails the whole playoffs.

Giguere started and won 1 game in round 1.
Pronger was suspended for 2 games in the playoffs and we won both those games.
Selanne was alright but he wasn't that great I would put Pahlsson over Selanne in a ranking.
Getzlaf was our leading scorer and had most ice time from our forwards.

However Niedermayer was a workhorse defenseman who played in all games and had some huge goals for us and I think that is why he won it and can't really argue with it.

No one mentioned Langenbrunner in '03?

Over Giguere

Alfredsson in 2007.

He had the same amount of points as 2 other Senators forwards from the playoffs and Senators got smoked in 5 games in the finals so no.

 

[Ishdul]

Thread dating back from 2008, but Doughty in the Kings' last cup is an obvious example.He got robbed.

I could've bought Kopitar as well. Williams was a bizarre choice.

 

[tony d]

Brodeur maybe instead of Giguere in 2003.

 

[MXD]

I don't understand how anyone can be suggesting that somebody else than Al Macinnis should've won the '89 Smythe.

Nothing against Mullen or Vernon, but Macinnis actually led the NHL in playoffs scoring by a non-insignificant margin (and the 2nd in playoff scoring, Tim Kerr, didn't even play in the Finals...). There absolutely nothing to justify a D-Men having the exclusive leade in playoffs scoring NOT getting the Connie Smythe, and it's probably no coincidence that the only three D-Men who managed this since the award exists won the award...

EDIT : Thanks QPQ for pointing out the Niedermayer omission. I just corrected the statement instead.

 

[GMR]

I'm guessing Vernon being a good Canadian boy and Fedorov being a Russian had something to do with it. No European had won the Smythe up to then. Of course I can't prove what the voters were thinking, but they certainly weren't going by the numbers. Makes me even more convinced that Bure wouldn't have won the Smythe had Vancouver won in 1994 (though I will admit a better case could be made for Linden/McLean than for Vernon in 1997).

The Yzerman vs. Lidstrom thing in 2002 is overplayed. Like most Wings fans, I wanted to see Yzerman win, but Lidstrom was more solid throughout the playoffs. Yzerman faded in the last two rounds. Over the years, I've become more and more convinced the right choice was made. Also, Lidstrom's goal against Cloutier was the single most important play of that run.

 

[quoipourquoi]

I don't understand how anyone can be suggesting that somebody else than Al Macinnis should've won the '89 Smythe.

Nothing against Mullen or Vernon, but Macinnis actually led the NHL in playoffs scoring by a non-insignificant margin (and the 2nd in playoff scoring, Tim Kerr, didn't even play in the Finals...). There absolutely nothing to justify a D-Men leading Playoffs in scoring NOT getting the Connie Smythe, and it's probably no coincidence that the only four D-Men who managed this since the award exists won the award... While often playing with teammates who had better performances, relatively speaking, than Joe Mullen did in 1989 (Mark Messier and Guy Lafleur comes to mind).

Not that I disagree with MacInnis, but Niedermayer in 2003 didn't win it.

 

[quoipourquoi]

I'm guessing Vernon being a good Canadian boy and Fedorov being a Russian had something to do with it.

I think Mike Vernon allowing 2 or fewer in 17/20 games while facing three of the top-10 offensive teams had more to do with it than the nationality of the former Hart Trophy winner who wasn't among the playoff scoring leaders.

 

[GMR]

I think Mike Vernon allowing 2 or fewer in 17/20 games while facing three of the top-10 offensive teams had more to do with it than the nationality of the former Hart Trophy winner who wasn't among the playoff scoring leaders.

Those leaders didn't win a game in the Finals, so they don't matter.

Fedorov was clearly the best Red Wing that year. Vernon had a .899 save percentage. If that was his save percentage, yet as you say, he didn't give up many goals, that shows you how dominant that team was. He rode the coattails of the team, not the other way around. Osgood followed that feat the following season.

 

[MXD]

Not that I disagree with MacInnis, but Niedermayer in 2003 didn't win it.

Meh. I know I should've worded the thing differently to NOT include guys who only co-led in scoring.

 

[MXD]

Those leaders didn't win a game in the Finals, so they don't matter.

Fedorov was clearly the best Red Wing that year. Vernon had a .899 save percentage. If that was his save percentage, yet as you say, he didn't give up many goals, that shows you how dominant that team was. He rode the coattails of the team, not the other way around. Osgood followed that feat the following season.

Not saying you're wrong on your global statement, but Reggie Leach did win the thing despite his team being winless in the Finals...

 

[GMR]

Not saying you're wrong on your global statement, but Reggie Leach did win the thing despite his team being winless in the Finals...

That's true, but his playoff that year was better than what Lindros or Leclair put together in 1997.

 

[neXis]

Most recent memory was just last year, Crosby over Kessel, which was straight up robbery.

 

[quoipourquoi]

Those leaders didn't win a game in the Finals, so they don't matter.

And Mike Vernon was the only goaltender to record a win in the Finals, so...

Fedorov was clearly the best Red Wing that year. Vernon had a .899 save percentage. If that was his save percentage, yet as you say, he didn't give up many goals, that shows you how dominant that team was. He rode the coattails of the team, not the other way around. Osgood followed that feat the following season.

Why are you judging Mike Vernon based on his regular season? He may have had an .899 in the regular season, but he had a .927 in the playoffs against great offensive teams (in a year in which a goaltender who was anything but a "good Canadian boy" won the Hart Trophy with a .930), winning more games in the playoffs than he did in the regular season. Even if you think he didn't face enough shots most nights to warrant an MVP award, he crushed it in games in which he faced 25+ shots with a .946 over 8 victories and a single loss.

What exactly is Fedorov's slam-dunk MVP argument, other than being more popular than Mike Vernon? He was practically a non-factor against St. Louis, recording just 2 assists and a minus-2 over 6 games.

 

[Rorschach]

Thread dating back from 2008, but Doughty in the Kings' last cup is an obvious example.He got robbed.

Him and Kopitar should have been 1 and 2.