Pittsburgh Sports Media Gibberish: Bombulie ‎to restore order @ the Trib(II)

[billybudd]

So... why would a GM talk to the family of a player and make that kind of assurance before the draft? What if a team took Saad before we had a chance? Do these things actually happen? Seems kinda strange to me.

Edit: So I went to DK's site and tried to submit a comment as George Saad. Apparently DK approves his comments, however, you don't need an account to post, so you can make your name anything you like.

Ever been an intern and had an executive tell you "heard a lot about you, you're really going places" or something of the sort? It's just hot air.

Penguins employee: "Hey Ray, this is George Saad, Brenden's father"

Ray: "Great to meet you, we're really looking forward to seeing your son with Team USA for a lot of years. Really liked what we saw out of him. Wanted to pick him but (fish story that George Saad ain't about to run around confirming with Shero's staff)."

 

[Captain Hook]

I have seen players say that teams told them they'd pick them before the draft. I remember Errey getting pretty emotional one time on the air when discussing his draft and how someone from the Pens brass told him before the draft they were going to pick him if he was still there and they did.

I've seen the opposite too. I remember University of Tennessee QB Tyler Bray's dad saying the Steelers told him they'd draft his son and then they didn't. They drafted Landry Jones instead.

I think it's clear GM's say a lot of things and it's mostly just hot air like billybudd said. Sometimes it works out where the player actually winds up getting picked by the team and other times **** happens and the team picks someone else for whatever reason.

 

[clefty]

This Saad talk is pointless.

We're not the only team who balked at him, there was clearly something scaring teams away. Christ, even the team that drafted him passed on him three times before they selected him, obviously having four picks inside the top 45 affords you opportunities to take chances on fallers like Saad.

Every professional sports team in history can play this game. 26 NFL teams passed on Dan Marino. Once upon a time we were dialed in on Scott Hannan, then changed our minds at the last second and took Robert Dome - himself a faller who was once projected to go inside the top five - and from what I've heard it was at the rather forceful behest of Herb Brooks. Herb Brooks!

Of course I want us to draft better. But when players fall hard, you're really rolling the dice. Sometimes they turn out to be Saad, more often than not they tend to be Robert Dome or Angelo Esposito. I can't point any fingers too hard at the Penguins for doing what pretty much the rest of the league did with Saad.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

All of this is making me saad.

 

[Freeptop]

I didn't want another defenseman at the time, but it's strange how people forget that at the time, Joe Morrow was the highest ranked prospect on McKenzie's list left on the board at the time (yes, above Saad, even):
http://www2.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=47549

Morrow was ranked 20th, Saad was ranked 22nd. The Pens selected 23rd, and every prospect ranked above Morrow on McKenzie's list had been taken already.

In hindsight, Saad was a much better pick. But, hey, if teams got to use hindsight, Saad wouldn't have been available when the Pens were selecting at 23rd, anyway (I doubt anyone would argue that Baertschi was a better pick at 16th, for example).

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I didn't want another defenseman at the time, but it's strange how people forget that at the time, Joe Morrow was the highest ranked prospect on McKenzie's list left on the board at the time (yes, above Saad, even):
http://www2.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=47549

Morrow was ranked 20th, Saad was ranked 22nd. The Pens selected 23rd, and every prospect ranked above Morrow on McKenzie's list had been taken already.

In hindsight, Saad was a much better pick. But, hey, if teams got to use hindsight, Saad wouldn't have been available when the Pens were selecting at 23rd, anyway (I doubt anyone would argue that Baertschi was a better pick at 16th, for example).

Well, I mean, that doesn't really provide anything. Nobody's arguing that Morrow wasn't a 1st rounder whether or not we picked him. We're arguing that for most of the year Saad was a top-5 pick in everyone's mind, his stock dropped due to injury, and at worst he was rated roughly the same as Morrow. We had a bunch of young, promising defensive prospects and nothing in the way of a big, skilled, top six winger with speed.

 

[Winger for Hire]

20th or 22nd ranked prospect.... basically no difference. One plays a position of extreme need, the other plays a position of surplus.

Definitely need to add to the surplus.

 

[penguins2946*]

20th or 22nd ranked prospect.... basically no difference. One plays a position of extreme need, the other plays a position of surplus.

Definitely need to add to the surplus.

And how was our D a position of surplus at that point? We didn't have any of Maatta, Pouliot, Dumoulin or Harrington at that point. Maybe if you mean surplus as in we had a bunch of mediocre prospects, then I guess you could argue that.

 

[Shady Machine]

20th or 22nd ranked prospect.... basically no difference. One plays a position of extreme need, the other plays a position of surplus.

Definitely need to add to the surplus.

BPA and stuff. Or was it BPMDA?

 

[Winger for Hire]

Defense in 2011
Letang, Martin, Michalek, Nisky, Orpik to go along with youngesters ranging from Top 4 guy to 6/7 guy (Despres, Strait, Sammy, Bortz, Engo, McNeill, D'Agostino).

Wings in 2011
Kuntiz, Despres, Cooke, Neil, Asham, Adams with the Great White Hype Tangradi as the best of the prospect pool after college bound Bennett, Rust somewhere in there there was Hanowski, Uher, Bathgate, Nathan Moon (what a god awful pick he was), Kuhnhackl, Agostino... most of these guy would have had to of made MAJOR leaps to be in the Top 6 discussion (no hindsight needed, read some of their old scouting reports... most were 3rd line material off the bat).

 

[Human]

I don't have that big of an issue with that Saad pick, although if those discussions between Shero and Saad's dad really took place, the Pens look ******** once again...

the Forsberg (no) pick on the other hand...

I ****ing hate this organization more and more...

 

[penguins2946*]

Defense in 2011
Letang, Martin, Michalek, Nisky, Orpik to go along with youngesters ranging from Top 4 guy to 6/7 guy (Despres, Strait, Sammy, Bortz, Engo, McNeill, D'Agostino).

Wings in 2011
Kuntiz, Despres, Cooke, Neil, Asham, Adams with the Great White Hype Tangradi as the best of the prospect pool after college bound Bennett, Rust somewhere in there there was Hanowski, Uher, Bathgate, Nathan Moon (what a god awful pick he was), Kuhnhackl, Agostino... most of these guy would have had to of made MAJOR leaps to be in the Top 6 discussion (no hindsight needed, read some of their old scouting reports... most were 3rd line material off the bat).

Our F prospect pool had 2 good prospects, Tangradi and Bennett. Our D prospect pool had 1. I really don't see where this surplus is. There were a bunch of no name prospects in each the F and D groups, and there were like 3 total good prospects between the 2 groups combined.

 

[Winger for Hire]

Our F prospect pool had 2 good prospects, Tangradi and Bennett. Our D prospect pool had 1. I really don't see where this surplus is. There were a bunch of no name prospects in each the F and D groups, and there were like 3 total good prospects between the 2 groups combined.

You conveniently ignoring that I included Neal (spelled wrong, sorry).

You're also ignoring that Martin and Z just signed for 5 years to anchor parts of the Top 4, Letang future Top 2 guy, Orpik was still a viable Top 4 guy with tread left, Nisky was a legit NHLer... all team controlled for roughly 3 more years. The D was pretty set. The AHL was developing some decent 6/7 guys to fill the cracks.

The offence had Neal and Kunitz as Top 6 guys, Duper had his career year and pretty much only the Pens saw him as a long term Top 6 guy, Bennett and Rust were both off to college and Tangradi was just finishing up busting... there was nothing else behind those guys in the NHL or developing from the AHL.

The Pens didn't need a home run blueliner there, they needed any skilled winger.

 

[penguins2946*]

You conveniently ignoring that I included Neal (spelled wrong, sorry).

I realized that immediately after I posted it and edited that out, my bad.

You're also ignoring that Martin and Z just signed for 5 years to anchor parts of the Top 4, Letang future Top 2 guy, Orpik was still a viable Top 4 guy with tread left, Nisky was a legit NHLer... all team controlled for roughly 3 more years. The D was pretty set. The AHL was developing some decent 6/7 guys to fill the cracks.

And D usually take a while to develop. Maatta is not the standard, D usually take a while to develop. Ideally, Morrow would have been ready for a full time role for this year, in Martin and Michalek's last year.

The offence had Neal and Kunitz as Top 6 guys, Duper had his career year and pretty much only the Pens saw him as a long term Top 6 guy, Bennett and Rust were both off to college and Tangradi was just finishing up busting... there was nothing else behind those guys in the NHL or developing from the AHL.

Dupuis didn't have the career year at that point. Tangradi was still a highly regarded prospect at that point.

The Pens didn't need a home run blueliner there, they needed any skilled winger.

They needed both. This wasn't 2012, where the Pens were already pretty flush deep in D prospects and a top end winger fell right into their laps. They weren't strong defensively in terms of prospects at that point. The Pouliot instead of FF pick is monumentally worse than the Morrow pick over Saad purely looking at the pick and nothing after.

 

[Winger for Hire]

They needed both.

They had defensive prospects that you're refusing to acknowledge as guy that could (and have) stepped up into NHL roles.

Lets leave this thread in peace and go back to you twisting the facts and making up alternate realities in the Roster Building thread.

This isn't the place for this when it's already going on elsewhere.

 

[penguins2946*]

They had defensive prospects that you're refusing to acknowledge as guy that could (and have) stepped up into NHL roles.

They had players like Bortuzzo (who ended up a #6), Sneep (AHLer) and Strait (should be AHLer). That's like saying you're refusing to acknowledge players like Kuhnhackl, Hanowski and Tangradi as forward prospects that they had.

Lets leave this thread in peace and go back to you twisting the facts and making up alternate realities in the Roster Building thread.

This isn't the place for this when it's already going on elsewhere.

Me twisting the facts?

 

[Penguinzilla*]

All of this is making me saad.

saad and despressed

 

[Get To Our Game]

Not Pittsburgh media, but in the Simon Despres = Bobby Orr mold:

 

[Freeptop]

Well, I mean, that doesn't really provide anything. Nobody's arguing that Morrow wasn't a 1st rounder whether or not we picked him. We're arguing that for most of the year Saad was a top-5 pick in everyone's mind, his stock dropped due to injury, and at worst he was rated roughly the same as Morrow. We had a bunch of young, promising defensive prospects and nothing in the way of a big, skilled, top six winger with speed.

Around here, where everyone always wants forwards to be picked in the first round, sure it was obvious. But it's not like it was such a slam-dunk to take Saad over Morrow, if one was actually drafting the Best Player Available.

For the record - I do think that if you've got two prospects that are roughly the same, filling out a position where depth is lacking makes more sense, even if it goes slightly against a BPA strategy, so long as you aren't reaching for the position of need. (If you need to reach, you should be trading down, if it's that important). I'm just saying that I at least understood drafting Morrow over Saad at the time, since it's not like the Pens were reaching when they selected Morrow.

I'm in favor of the BPA strategy, since NHL team needs can change by the time a prospect is ready, but that also has to be followed with good asset management later, which is where Shero truly failed. The plan should have been to trade veterans to make room for the (cheap) talented young defensemen. That way the Pens would have been trading the more expensive player when they were at a higher value than an unknown prospect. Instead, Shero traded Joe Morrow for Brendan Morrow and Rutherford traded Despres for Lovejoy.

It's weird, because Shero is the one who traded Whitney for Kunitz and Goligoski for Neal and Niskanen. Those should have been the standard that he followed. Instead, he started keeping the veterans around and trading away the prospects instead. That left us with a shallow pool of prospects, and no cap space to work with.

I'll also note that Pouliot was a pick I never understood. He _was_ a reach, and for a position where they did not have a need. That's the pick that truly emphasizes just how much Shero overvalued defensemen. I'm glad that Pouliot is looking like he'll be a good player, since I can't go and change the past, but man, that one truly was obvious at the time...

 

[Shrimper]

We're still taking about Saad?

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

We're still taking about Saad?

Yeah. We're still talking about the franchise forward we let slip through our fingers midway through our decade-long issue with having talent in our top six on the wings.

Yep. We're talking about that guy.

 

[IcedCapp]

We need a Saad Appreciation Thread

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

We need a Saad Appreciation Thread

Oh, I'm gonna make one after JR signs him to that offer sheet this summer. Mark my words.

Or I'll just sprinkle a little bit of Saad Appreciation Thread everywhere I go.

 

[Jacob]

So is Rossi fired? Haven't heard boo from him in a while. Is Bombulie his replacement?

 

[IcedCapp]

Oh, I'm gonna make one after JR signs him to that offer sheet this summer. Mark my words.

Or I'll just sprinkle a little bit of Saad Appreciation Thread everywhere I go.

dude, you can't just go sprinkling your Saad everywhere. There's outlets for you to get rid of your Saad if you really need to.