Confirmed Trade: [PIT/TOR] Kasperi Kapanen, Lindgren, Aberg for 2020 1st, Hallander, Warsofsky, Rodrigues

[LeafsNation75]

I think it was the pick plus prospect. Anyway, the trade was done a few days ago. Why would Leaf fans worry about what Kapp does or doesn't do anymore than Pitt worries about who the draft pick will be or how well the prospect develops. It is irrelevant.

Dubas was asking for a 1st round pick and a prospect from all the GM's he spoke with. We know that Jim Rutherford obviously meet his price with the 1st round pick since the trade was made with Pittsburgh.

 

[Ciao]

I see too much Kapanen "bashing" from the leafs side, he's a good player and a good pick up for the pens. In the long run yes i feel like leafs will come out much better, but make no mistake the Pens are getting a really good player, who can PK/PP. Yes they overpaid, but lets not act like hes a garbage player, he's better than average and the Pens are a better team today for it. A chance for another cup run today at the cost of long term, worth it for them given they have Sid and Geno who are in their mid 30s now.

There are a few people who criticized Kapanen while he was with the Leafs and after he's gone as well.

Most of Leafs Nation recognizes that he is a good player and would rather have kept him if there were no salary limitations. However, given the tight salary cap and the fact that they have two even better players at right wing, and others at the same position who could readily fill his third-line spot, I think there is wide support for this deal among Leafs fans.

That not a knock against Kapanen -- it's just trading from a position of strength and surplus.

Pretty good long-term personnel management, if you ask me, both in developing the pool of assets over a number of years and harvesting something for the future once they all developed.

I would like to see more of this from the Leafs at other positions, such as defence and goaltender. Draft, develop, and trade away surplus players when the house is too full.

 

[Ciao]

Obviously, he is a good player. Where is the bashing?

he is a good player owed 2.1 x 2. He has value. The issue is that they want him in the top 6. Kappy in his 5 years in the leaf org has never proven he has the mindset to do that.

he works best as a 1 man army on the third line. He’s a “number 7” forward. He doesn’t use his line mates. He doesn’t cycle in the o zone. He doesn’t make plays.

he has incredible straight away speed. Gets break always and just flies. But he could not gel at all with Matthews and JT. Two centres who work well with a possession/cycle game.
If they wanted him to anchor the third line and dominate lower competition it would be smart this doesn’t make sense from what they are saying

Well, @AvroArrow, maybe I stand to be corrected.

Perhaps there is a bit more bashing than I would care to admit.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Dubas was asking for a 1st round pick and a prospect from all the GM's he spoke with. We know that Jim Rutherford obviously meet his price with the 1st round pick since the trade was made with Pittsburgh.

Yes, we do know that. I have no dispute with that. I think Craig Button said the same the other day and went a little further and discussed the teams the Leafs may have also spoken to.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

There are a few people who criticized Kapanen while he was with the Leafs and after he's gone as well.

Most of Leafs Nation recognizes that he is a good player and would rather have kept him if there were no salary limitations. However, given the tight salary cap and the fact that they have two even better players at right wing, and others at the same position who could readily fill his third-line spot, I think there is wide support for this deal among Leafs fans.

That not a knock against Kapanen -- it's just trading from a position of strength and surplus.

Pretty good long-term personnel management, if you ask me, both in developing the pool of assets over a number of years and harvesting something for the future once they all developed.

I would like to see more of this from the Leafs at other positions, such as defence and goaltender. Draft, develop, and trade away surplus players when the house is too full.

Is it surplus, though?

Obviously in the top six he's not needed with Marner and Nylander ahead of him, but beyond that who is ready to step in right now and both produce what Kapanen does and play the special teams he does?

 

[Leaf Fans]

Well, @AvroArrow, maybe I stand to be corrected.

Perhaps there is a bit more bashing than I would care to admit.

Is that three different people or just the one? There might be some "bashing" ( there always is for some reason), but the majority from the Leafs side of things, are well wishers.

 

[Merrrlin]

Is it surplus, though?

Obviously in the top six he's not needed with Marner and Nylander ahead of him, but beyond that who is ready to step in right now and both produce what Kapanen does and play the special teams he does?

The hope is for one of Robertson, Engvall or Korshkov can move into the bottom 6 and provide similar value.

You can only have so many 3 million dollar players in your bottom 6, so we traded likely the most valuable one for some quantity value. Let's see what Dubas does with it. I think we generally undervalue getting quantity for quality on this board...Toronto needs depth assets, I don't mind the downgrade.

 

[Legion34]

Well, @AvroArrow, maybe I stand to be corrected.

Perhaps there is a bit more bashing than I would care to admit.

how could you possibly interpret that as bashing?
he is a good player. With value who has shown zero ability to play with top line centres on multiple lines over multiple years......

he has shown great abilities to make space for himself. Fly down the wing and outplay lower
Lines......

You saw something different? You saw him cycle? Use his linemates?

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

The hope is for one of Robertson, Engvall or Korshkov can move into the bottom 6 and provide similar value.

You can only have so many 3 million dollar players in your bottom 6, so we traded likely the most valuable one for some quantity value. Let's see what Dubas does with it. I think we generally undervalue getting quantity for quality on this board...Toronto needs depth assets, I don't mind the downgrade.

Which hand does Korshkov shoot? Because the first two are lefties, so someone would be playing their wrong side to replace Kapanen at 3RW.

I also think people are going to be disappointed if they're expecting Robertson to be that replacement this upcoming season. He showed some nice offensive instincts, particularly at getting open for shots, but he's still got a lot to improve upon away from the puck.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Is it surplus, though?

Obviously in the top six he's not needed with Marner and Nylander ahead of him, but beyond that who is ready to step in right now and both produce what Kapanen does and play the special teams he does?

That is true we do need someone to replace what Kapanen did, for us a third line winger as he didn't displace Marner or Nylander in Toronto. Perhaps it is internally with Barabanov or Robertson or whoever, or perhaps we have to go outside the org and find it. The same could be said with Pitt. If Kapanen doesn't win a top six job with the Pens, they will have to find someone else. There is no doubt that Kapanen ( unlike Barabanov or Robertson) will be a player for the Pens, but where he plays it up to him.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Which hand does Korshkov shoot? Because the first two are lefties, so someone would be playing their wrong side to replace Kapanen at 3RW.

I also think people are going to be disappointed if they're expecting Robertson to be that replacement this upcoming season. He showed some nice offensive instincts, particularly at getting open for shots, but he's still got a lot to improve upon away from the puck.

Korshkov is a left shot right wing.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Which hand does Korshkov shoot? Because the first two are lefties, so someone would be playing their wrong side to replace Kapanen at 3RW.

I also think people are going to be disappointed if they're expecting Robertson to be that replacement this upcoming season. He showed some nice offensive instincts, particularly at getting open for shots, but he's still got a lot to improve upon away from the puck.

In general, yeah he has to get better defensively. In order to have the same impact as Kapanen? He's probably not too far off. That's more to do with how terrible Kapanen is defensively than Robertson being uniquely ready though

 

[Merrrlin]

Which hand does Korshkov shoot? Because the first two are lefties, so someone would be playing their wrong side to replace Kapanen at 3RW.

I also think people are going to be disappointed if they're expecting Robertson to be that replacement this upcoming season. He showed some nice offensive instincts, particularly at getting open for shots, but he's still got a lot to improve upon away from the puck.

I don't think people will be disappointed if an 18/19 year old kid doesn't make an immediate impact.

Hard working 3rd line wingers is not the hardest position to fill in hockey so I won't lose too much sleep over it. Especially if they draft Schnieder or use the pick to upgrade at a position of dire need, such as RD.

I think Kapanen's style was a big reason why we moved him - avoids contact, loses puck battles, often afraid to shoot, suspect defensively. He always passed the eye test for me due to his speed and skill, but his analytics were never good I am told. Maybe that north-south speed game will be better with an elite passer and puck retriever in Pittsburgh.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

That is true we do need someone to replace what Kapanen did, for us a third line winger as he didn't displace Marner or Nylander in Toronto. Perhaps it is internally with Barabanov or Robertson or whoever, or perhaps we have to go outside the org and find it. The same could be said with Pitt. If Kapanen doesn't win a top six job with the Pens, they will have to find someone else. There is no doubt that Kapanen ( unlike Barabanov or Robertson) will be a player for the Pens, but where he plays it up to him.

Not really. That spot next to Crosby and Guentzel will either be Kapanen's or it will default to Simon. Not my first choice by a long shot, but the coach likes using him there and in fairness, that line with Simon there tends to do well analytically and Sid and Jake seem to produce with him, even if he's got a muffin shot.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Not really. That spot next to Crosby and Guentzel will either be Kapanen's or it will default to Simon. Not my first choice by a long shot, but the coach likes using him there and in fairness, that line with Simon there tends to do well analytically and Sid and Jake seem to produce with him, even if he's got a muffin shot.

Yes, but clearly they wanted improvement there.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

In general, yeah he has to get better defensively. In order to have the same impact as Kapanen? He's probably not too far off. That's more to do with how terrible Kapanen is defensively than Robertson being uniquely ready though

This sounds a bit like your Kerfoot will easily replace Kadri from last off-season. I don't think it's quite as simple for a 18/19 year old to come in and replace a guy who's produced at a roughly 40 point pace each of the past two seasons.

 

[LeafsNation75]

This sounds a bit like your Kerfoot will easily replace Kadri from last off-season. I don't think it's quite as simple for a 18/19 year old to come in and replace a guy who's produced at a roughly 40 point pace each of the past two seasons.

If Robertson can make the Leafs full time at the start of next season at least he will be on his ELC.

 

[TheDoldrums]

Because HF generally favors any deal that involves a 1st round pick and a prospect going the other way. It's the allure of landing a stud with the 15th overall, but the reality is historically you're probably lucky just to even get another Kapanen with that pick.

It's not just "HF" that believes the Leafs did well on the deal. From Pierre LeBrun's article:

There isn’t a single NHL team executive I heard from Tuesday who didn’t give him credit for his trade with Pittsburgh.

I mean, if there’s any downside to this deal, I can’t see it. Dubas created much-needed cap space, got a prospect in Filip Hallander scouts believe can be a good player, and most importantly, somehow filled his first-round pick void.

“Good deal for Kyle,’’ said one rival NHL GM, a comment echoed by many.

LeBrun: Maple Leafs accomplish their goal in recouping first-rounder for Kapanen

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

It's not just "HF" that believes the Leafs did well on the deal. From Pierre LeBrun's article:



LeBrun: Maple Leafs accomplish their goal in recouping first-rounder for Kapanen

In that part of his posted that I quoted he seemed to be specifically asking why the Kapanen part of the deal is being undersold. Or at least I took it that way. I didn't take it that he was asking why the Leafs won the deal.

I've already stated I think it is over payment. However, I believe that specific conversation (that I was responding to) was geared toward Kapanen and what he brings to the table, and why that seems to be overlooked, not necessarily who won the trade overall.

 

[Leaf Fans]

In that part of his posted that I quoted he seemed to be specifically asking why the Kapanen part of the deal is being undersold. Or at least I took it that way. I didn't take it that he was asking why the Leafs won the deal.

I've already stated I think it is over payment. However, I believe that specific conversation (that I was responding to) was geared toward Kapanen and what he brings to the table, and why that seems to be overlooked, not necessarily who won the trade overall.

The best trades benifit both teams. Pittsburgh got the player they wanted. Toronto got what they wanted. Winning the trade is a media and message board thing.

 

[Ciao]

Is it surplus, though?

Obviously in the top six he's not needed with Marner and Nylander ahead of him, but beyond that who is ready to step in right now and both produce what Kapanen does and play the special teams he does?

There isn't a Kapanen clone on the Leafs or any other team, but the Leafs have more than enough players to fill the four bottom-six right- and left-wing positions, as well as the PK and second PP units.

It won't be one guy that does exactly what KK did -- it may take several players to fill different roles differently.

One thing KK provides that likely won't be replaced and will be missed is that he is always a scoring threat on the PK. I think Pittsburgh fans will really like that side of him.

However, whoever fills his spot on the roster might bring something different that KK did not provide. It's never an exact fit.

And, yes, having him on the third line with little or no opportunity for advancement up the roster really was a position of surplus for the Leafs.

 

[Ciao]

how could you possibly interpret that as bashing?
he is a good player. With value who has shown zero ability to play with top line centres on multiple lines over multiple years......

he has shown great abilities to make space for himself. Fly down the wing and outplay lower
Lines......

You saw something different? You saw him cycle? Use his linemates?

Maybe I misunderstood you.

I thought you suggested that he is overpaid, doesn't use his teammates, can't cycle the puck and doesn't make plays. All of that has been true at times, and not at other times.

I have seen him cycle, use his teammates and make nice passes.

I wouldn't say that he can't do those things -- just that he hasn't always done them and is still a work in progress.

 

[7even]

he is a good player owed 2.1 x 2. He has value. The issue is that they want him in the top 6. Kappy in his 5 years in the leaf org has never proven he has the mindset to do that.

he works best as a 1 man army on the third line. He’s a “number 7” forward. He doesn’t use his line mates. He doesn’t cycle in the o zone. He doesn’t make plays.

he has incredible straight away speed. Gets break always and just flies. But he could not gel at all with Matthews and JT. Two centres who work well with a possession/cycle game.
If they wanted him to anchor the third line and dominate lower competition it would be smart this doesn’t make sense from what they are saying

Matthews and Tavares are two shooting centers, which is actually pretty unusual. The optimism for Pittsburgh fans is that Crosby and Malkin play an entirely different style.

 

[ijuka]

Kasperi Kapanen is a third liner. He makes third liner money. Leafs are disappointed that he somehow isn't good in a top 6 role. Go figure. Maybe play him in a role suitable for him, which is with two plugs where he can do his own thing.

Matthews and Tavares are two shooting centers, which is actually pretty unusual. The optimism for Pittsburgh fans is that Crosby and Malkin play an entirely different style.

Or maybe he won't play with Crosby or Malkin? Leafs have gotten rid of so many perfectly fine bottom 6 forwards because they didn't like the fact that they were bottom 6 forwards.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

This sounds a bit like your Kerfoot will easily replace Kadri from last off-season. I don't think it's quite as simple for a 18/19 year old to come in and replace a guy who's produced at a roughly 40 point pace each of the past two seasons.

Well first you said Robertson would struggle defensively and that's why he wouldn't be able to replace Kapanen, so I said Kapanen is terrible defensively. Now you're saying it's because Robertson won't be able to match his point production?