Confirmed Buy-Out [PIT] Jack Johnson

Empoleon8771

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Aug 25, 2015
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Okay, I guess he’s decided to criticize JR for absolutely no reason. You can ignore the Reaves trade, the Hunwick contract, the Johnson contract, Gudbranson, the Kapanen trade, etc.

There's a difference between criticizing JR for reasonable things and making shit up to bitch about him more. Look at his twitter feed, every single Penguins transaction was met with "HUR DUR BUT THEY STILL HAVE JJ, SCREW JR!!!!". Dude is a downright hack and I have genuinely no clue how you're defending him.
 
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TOGuy14

Registered User
Dec 30, 2010
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The Penguins spending $3.217 million in players not playing for them isn't even that high, I think there's probably about 10-15 teams spending equal to more than that. Just looking quickly, I found the Senators, Rangers, Leafs, Panthers, Canes and Flyers just from the East who are paying that or more for players not on their teams this year. It's just unusual for the Penguins because they haven't bought out anyone in over a decade and they've only retained salary maybe once.

Huh? Leafs only have 1.2M on Kessel
 

BHD

Vejmelka for Vezina
Dec 27, 2009
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There's a difference between criticizing JR for reasonable things and making shit up to bitch about him more. Look at his twitter feed, every single Penguins transaction was met with "HUR DUR BUT THEY STILL HAVE JJ, SCREW JR!!!!". Dude is a downright hack and I have genuinely no clue how you're defending him.

Well most of JRs moves have ranged from OK to terrible since the Cups...
 

SEALBound

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There's a difference between criticizing JR for reasonable things and making shit up to bitch about him more. Look at his twitter feed, every single Penguins transaction was met with "HUR DUR BUT THEY STILL HAVE JJ, SCREW JR!!!!". Dude is a downright hack and I have genuinely no clue how you're defending him.

Calling him a hack is generous in and of itself.

I've have paper cuts from tissue paper that have more depth than Ryan Wilson.
 

Perfect_Drug

Registered User
Mar 24, 2006
15,585
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Montreal
Sorry if this has been asked before.

But how is JJ's situation with his bankruptcy?
Is he sorted yet? or still in financial ruin?

Did this contract help him out in the end?
 

Lemieuxs

Registered User
Nov 23, 2013
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Marino for a 7th?
Pettersson for Sprong?
Zucker acquisition?

You think the Zucker trade was a win for the Penguins?

No way! A first round pick, their #1 defensive prospect in Calen Addison, and Alex Galchenyuk (who was the return from the failed Kessel trade).

I think we are going to have to agree to disagree here.
 
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Sidney the Kidney

One last time
Jun 29, 2009
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You think the Zucker trade was a win for the Penguins?

No way! A first round pick, their #1 defensive prospect in Calen Addison, and Alex Galchenyuk (who was the return from the failed Kessel trade).

I think we are going to have to agree to disagree here.

Galchenyuk was terrible for the Pens and wouldn't have brought back more than a late round pick. Why are you listing him as though he's some big asset that had to be given up?

And considering where the Pens are in their window, I'd take Zucker over a 1st and Addison.
 

BHD

Vejmelka for Vezina
Dec 27, 2009
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Marino for a 7th?
Pettersson for Sprong?
Zucker acquisition?

Kevin Stevens deserves credit for Marino... Pete for Sprong was a fair trade... Zucker was good... I’d mention the trade that is now just McCann. That was a decent trade... The whole Kessel thing is too complicated to pin on just him...

However, you can cite as many bad trades/signings as well.
 

Sidney the Kidney

One last time
Jun 29, 2009
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Kevin Stevens deserves credit for Marino... Pete for Sprong was a fair trade... Zucker was good... I’d mention the trade that is now just McCann. That was a decent trade... The whole Kessel thing is too complicated to pin on just him...

However, you can cite as many bad trades/signings as well.

So the good stuff are attributed to other people on the Pens staff, but the bad stuff is just him?

Also, how was Pettersson for Sprong a fair trade? Sprong struggling to even be an NHL regular, while Pettersson's established himself as a #4/5 in the NHL.

Of course he's made some blunders -- find me a GM over their careers who hasn't -- but you made it sound like pretty much all his moves since 2018 were disasters when that's not quite true. There's been some nice additions in there as well.
 

SEALBound

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Kevin Stevens deserves credit for Marino... Pete for Sprong was a fair trade... Zucker was good... I’d mention the trade that is now just McCann. That was a decent trade... The whole Kessel thing is too complicated to pin on just him...

However, you can cite as many bad trades/signings as well.

To be fair, some of the "bad" trades are trades viewed based on results rather than "at the time" value. Like Sheahan and Brassard.

Sheahan+5th for Wilson+3rd. Wilson was a fringe player and Sheahan filled the 3C nice adequately but it never clicked. Performed as expected.

Brassard for Cole, Gusty, 1st (think Reaves too). Brassard was the premium center available and this was widely applauded. We were in a position to three-peat better than any team in the cap era.

Both turned out poopy due to their play and overall impact but that doesn't mean they weren't good trades. Then he takes two non-impact UFAs to be, a 2nd, and a 4th and turns them into Bjustad and McCann. That's another pretty good deal that took advantage of Florida's desire to cut salary. Again though, Bjugstad didn't perform here and alas had to be traded. McCann is a young, versatile center/wing for us. Each trade at the time made the Penguins a better team, at least on paper and in theory. Those players brought in that didn't perform as expected often bias the trade itself towards the bad side.

In reality, I can only think of the one bad signing in JJ. All others have been fair. I thought Phil was traded for less than what he was worth but JR didn't have much leverage and Kessel vetoed and much better swap with Minny. Not totally JR's fault there. With the Zucker and Kapanen trade now though, the price he paid was slightly higher than what most of us would have liked. Basically a 1st and a dump for Zucker (I tend not to include Addison because we got POJ in the Kessel trade) and then a 1st and a quality prospect of Kapanen. Hefty prices but he brought in two help now players that fit our style. Last, he swaps Horny for Matheson which we can debate all day and all parties are right. Jarry got signed to a fair deal as well. So really...it's the JJ signing that's been a bust.

Being at the end of the window with the mandate to still win now, I'd rather have the horse trader in JR than a GM that sits on his hands and doesn't make moves hoping that one draft pick helps us in 4 years.
 
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Oddbob

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Jan 21, 2016
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AAhhhhh!!!!!!!!!! Wings were looking at him for the Wings 2020-2021 all-star team, but it just isn't the same if we can't trade for him.
 

Syckle78

Registered User
Nov 5, 2011
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Redford, MI
That's the thing. Rutherford has burned through a gross amount of assets in order to undo these bad contracts. A Pens writer shared the table recently, and it's ridiculous.


To be fair the vast majority of players listed were trash when they left or had to be moved. The vast majority of picks are late round. It's a really long list but it makes it look like there was way more value moved out than there was in reality.
 
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CartographerNo611

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Oct 11, 2014
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Matheson is way better than Johnson and brings an element that is desperately needed on the Penguins defense (offense and speed from the backend), so I'm not sure how people are acting like it's a lateral move from JJ to him.

JJ was a no hockey IQ sloth who couldn’t shut down a beach ball.

Matheson is a no hockey IQ speed demon who can’t shut down a beach ball. What the point of skating fast when you your brain delay leads to horrible turn overs multiple times a game.

Penguins traded an expensive whipping boy for a more expensive whipping boy.
 

Empoleon8771

Registered User
Aug 25, 2015
81,496
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Redmond, WA
To be fair the vast majority of players listed were trash when they left or had to be moved. The vast majority of picks are late round. It's a really long list but it makes it look like there was way more value moved out than there was in reality.

This plus he double dips on multiple trades there. Look at the Maatta trade tree, it went:

1. Maatta for Kahun
2. Kahun for Sheary and Rodrigues
3. Rodrigues as a throw-in for the Kapanen trade

He has all of Maatta, Kahun and Rodrigues as "departures" and only Sheary as an arrival. It's an insanely disingenuous way of evaluating trades. He also double dips on the Kessel trade tree, the Hagelin trade tree, the Brassard trade tree, the Sheahan trade, the Oleksiak trade tree (this one is especially bad, the trades were insanely simple at 4th for Oleksiak and then that same 4th back for Oleksiak, but he includes both the 4th and Oleksiak as "departures") and the Reaves trade. It's insanely disingenuous with the point of bitching about JR, which is his entire MO.
 

Empoleon8771

Registered User
Aug 25, 2015
81,496
79,662
Redmond, WA
JJ was a no hockey IQ sloth who couldn’t shut down a beach ball.

Matheson is a no hockey IQ speed demon who can’t shut down a beach ball. What the point of skating fast when you your brain delay leads to horrible turn overs multiple times a game.

Penguins traded an expensive whipping boy for a more expensive whipping boy.

Even if they were equal defensively, which analytics do not paint them as, Matheson is a speed demon who can score at ES. Johnson sucks in literally every way, shape and form.

I don't know if people are just trolling in here or what, but there are maybe 10 defenseman as bad as Jack Johnson in hockey, and Matheson isn't one of them. Matheson is a grossly overpaid bottom pair D that produces well at ES and makes bad decisions defensively. Johnson is terrible at all aspects of hockey, there are no redeeming qualities there.
 

Sidney the Kidney

One last time
Jun 29, 2009
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Even if they were equal defensively, which analytics do not paint them as, Matheson is a speed demon who can score at ES. Johnson sucks in literally every way, shape and form.

I don't know if people are just trolling in here or what, but there are maybe 10 defenseman as bad as Jack Johnson in hockey, and Matheson isn't one of them. Matheson is a grossly overpaid bottom pair D that produces well at ES and makes bad decisions defensively. Johnson is terrible at all aspects of hockey, there are no redeeming qualities there.

I've got a feeling Matheson is going to be what I held faint hope Johnson would be when he signed -- a defensive question mark who can hopefully at least help out in the offensive end.
 

BHD

Vejmelka for Vezina
Dec 27, 2009
38,225
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Moncton, NB
Didn't realize saying JR is careless with assets (ask Canes fans when he arrived in Pittsburgh) would be such a point of contention. It's good to parlay assets into players that improve your team (Kessel, Bonino, Daley, Hagelin, Schultz), but more often than not he's using them to move players that set back the team back (Hunwick, Johnson, Gudbranson).
 
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kilowatt

the vibes are not immaculate
Jan 1, 2009
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21,231
The Penguins spending $3.217 million in players not playing for them isn't even that high, I think there's probably about 10-15 teams spending equal to more than that. Just looking quickly, I found the Senators, Rangers, Leafs, Panthers, Canes and Flyers just from the East who are paying that or more for players not on their teams this year. It's just unusual for the Penguins because they haven't bought out anyone in over a decade and they've only retained salary maybe once.

Those are amateur numbers. The Kings have $11,012,500 in dead cap space spread out between Ilya Kovalchuk, Dion Phaneuf, and Mike Richards!
 

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