Speculation: Pietrangelo Discussion: Should we move on if he refuses an offer in the range of 8x$8.25m?

Should Pietrangelo be let go if he refuses an offer in the 8.25X8 range?


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Blueston

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I’m really getting tired of the transparent efforts by Petro and his agents to manipulate the media. If he is so insulted by Army’s efforts to make him highest paid player in franchise history then buh bye. Either he wants to stay or he doesn’t. But enough of this whininess. It is unbecoming.
 

BlueKnight

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Apr 19, 2015
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So is the big issue just the bonuses and NTC or NMC and the minor things like that? That seems ridiculous that Army is being kinda petty if that is the case! I can see were Pietro could easily get frustrated with the Blues when all the details arent spelled out.
Yes from what I see from all the insiders are saying that's what the issue is very minor things and Petro is getting frustrated about it. It is ridiculous that Army has this hard of a line in the sand. Army is on a very very slippery slope here and Petro could walk because of it.
 

Stupendous Yappi

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NMC and bonus money are nit minor things at all. It’s the difference of potentially millions of real dollars out of the owners pocket, depending on when in the escrow schedule the money is owed.

A full NMC has real value. It can hamstring a team, when they’re married to a failing player with an albatross contract and no way to move them. In this case, I think Armstrong is kind of in the camp of “We don’t negotiate with terrorists.”

If he gives one player bonus payments, then every negotiation from then on will have that precedent to point to. The risk of players holding out over bonuses goes up a lot. On the other hand, if Pietro goes to UFA over bonus payments, the next guy is going to know that’s not likely to be available to him either.

Pietro is being offered a contract making him the highest paid player on the team. This would be the richest contract in team history if I’m not mistaken. To be personally insulted by an offer like that in the climate of a pandemic is a little hard to believe. I still think he’s mostly posturing.
 

blues80

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Dec 10, 2018
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The need to put a bonus in the back jesus christ were gonna watch him walk he wants it gurenteed
 

mk80

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I don't see the point in being so opposed to giving an NMC in the final years of the contract. Sure maybe those years are a bit harsh if Petro's game really falls off the wagon then. If you're signing this contract at all you're doing for the first 5-6 years of it, and pretty much doing the farewell tour on the backend. But will Petro's game really fall off that much in those final years anyway?

Certainly as a GM you don't want to be handing out huge contracts that could be handicaps like this left and right. But Petro is the type of player that comes along where I think it's definitely the exception to that rule.
 

DoubleK81

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PETRO SUCKS
NMC and bonus money are nit minor things at all. It’s the difference of potentially millions of real dollars out of the owners pocket, depending on when in the escrow schedule the money is owed.

A full NMC has real value. It can hamstring a team, when they’re married to a failing player with an albatross contract and no way to move them. In this case, I think Armstrong is kind of in the camp of “We don’t negotiate with terrorists.”

If he gives one player bonus payments, then every negotiation from then on will have that precedent to point to. The risk of players holding out over bonuses goes up a lot. On the other hand, if Pietro goes to UFA over bonus payments, the next guy is going to know that’s not likely to be available to him either.

Pietro is being offered a contract making him the highest paid player on the team. This would be the richest contract in team history if I’m not mistaken. To be personally insulted by an offer like that in the climate of a pandemic is a little hard to believe. I still think he’s mostly posturing.

I can't believe there are so many people that don't see this, and just want to throw whatever he wants at him. This team isn't built on an individual player, regardless of what they have done. If we had won the cup in Backes' last year here, he would have walked in FA due to his demands as well.
 

Frenzy31

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I personally don’t have an issue with no movement clauses, but bonuses are a big issue. The is real$$$ spent prior to getting any revenue for the season. That is hard on a teams budget.
 
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Ranksu

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I don't see the point in being so opposed to giving an NMC in the final years of the contract. Sure maybe those years are a bit harsh if Petro's game really falls off the wagon then. If you're signing this contract at all you're doing for the first 5-6 years of it, and pretty much doing the farewell tour on the backend. But will Petro's game really fall off that much in those final years anyway?

Certainly as a GM you don't want to be handing out huge contracts that could be handicaps like this left and right. But Petro is the type of player that comes along where I think it's definitely the exception to that rule.
Well Dom noted that might not even be case with Pietro. He might age well. He has been majority of his career healthy, not big injuries. @Alklha said well that Faulk's and (Schenn's) last years of contracts will be easily worse compare to Pietro's.

Read picture and compare to Pietro to others. Even this aspect that his last years might not be bad shouldn't make you deny to give him bonus and NMC.

I bet Army has stats of all kind of so we could lean to that Army is just hardballing Pietro. Its not fear of Pietro will be after 5-years Seabrook 2.0, more we've seen it goes with Army's ego and not giving up what players is worth. Its crazy when he's hardballing franchise face, first captain who raised over his head Stanley Cup.

Einr8x7XcAk-mRE


 
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Cotton McKnight

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Elliotte Freidman talked about the Pietrangelo situation on his 31 thoughts podcast. He says it's an very, very intense game of poker. Here is a brief synopsis. Most of it is what we already know.

-Current offer 8x8
-Blues not budging on bonuses and nmc and not willing to make exceptions
-Friedman said they are going to try and make another run but the chances of getting a deal done is nil.
-Friedman didn't mince words, It's gotten personal. It's clear Petro isn't happy and feels disrespected. Also he says Petro isn't jelous at Faulk,Schenn or Scandella because they got their deals right away. And says those deals are at market value or above. He feels he isn't getting a fair deal.
-The emotion gotten into all of this and the emotion is no one is budging on every side
-Vegas is the frontrunner to sign Petro if he get's to free agency

After listening to this, Yeah it's getting ugly and I don't see how they can get a deal done. Say your goodbyes to Petro


This is very similar to when we have a reset in the real estate market. Look at 2008, bought my first home dirt cheap and sold it some years later. I look into the old home and see after the market recovered that the house is going for 5 times the price I bought it for (it was brand new construction when I got it).

Petro and company have not realized that Blues realize this market is tanking. If Petro gets his crazy contract somewhere else I really hope he performs and proves all of us wrong, otherwise he will be remembered for that one cup early on and then being a waste of space.
 

Alklha

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Sep 7, 2011
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NMC and bonus money are nit minor things at all. It’s the difference of potentially millions of real dollars out of the owners pocket, depending on when in the escrow schedule the money is owed.

A full NMC has real value. It can hamstring a team, when they’re married to a failing player with an albatross contract and no way to move them. In this case, I think Armstrong is kind of in the camp of “We don’t negotiate with terrorists.”

If he gives one player bonus payments, then every negotiation from then on will have that precedent to point to. The risk of players holding out over bonuses goes up a lot. On the other hand, if Pietro goes to UFA over bonus payments, the next guy is going to know that’s not likely to be available to him either.

Pietro is being offered a contract making him the highest paid player on the team. This would be the richest contract in team history if I’m not mistaken. To be personally insulted by an offer like that in the climate of a pandemic is a little hard to believe. I still think he’s mostly posturing.
A NMC and signing bonuses aren't minor things, but you aren't likely to be able to sign players the calibre of Pietrangelo without signing bonuses. That's just the reality.

Of all the defensemen with an AAV of $7m or higher, only Chabot has neither signing bonuses or a NMC. Letang is the only other without signing bonuses. From an agents perspective, the negotiation is all about the extent of the signing bonuses, not if they are in the contract.

If we aren't going to give out any signing bonuses in contract negotiations, then we're at a severe disadvantage moving forward. If it is an ownership issue, that's unfortunate and not the fault of Armstrong.

Does giving Pietrangelo signing bonuses increase the likelihood of other players expecting them? To a degree, and we have to cross that bridge when it happens. If Pietrangelo leaves because we refuse signing bonuses, that isn't going to stop Parayko expecting them when we start talking to him next year. Parayko will be in a stronger negotiating position if we've already lost Pietrangelo. ROR is unquestionably going to expect them when we're talking with him in two years.

We're going to find out just how good a negotiator Doug Armstrong is in the next couple of weeks. I'm happy to give him credit when it's due, and even defend contracts that others describe as "bad"... but, I think a lot of his reputation with contracts is overblown. He's solid and largely risk averse. Dealing with RFAs and using a "prove it" philosophy, combined with hard red lines for UFA targets? It makes it much easier to avoid "bad" deals. Now we're at a point where it's a star player looking at UFA? Those tactics have to be more flexible, it can't be a one-trick pony.
 

MissouriMook

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I’ve said before I don’t like the team stance on these issues for a competitive standpoint in that it puts us at a disadvantage to teams that do them, even occasionally. But I’m just as disappointed because I think it is a bit hypocritical that they won’t sign a contract with those elements but they will trade for one. The ROR contract is almost all signing bonus, and they even agreed to take that contract on the very day the signing bonus was due.
 
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BlueKnight

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I saw this interesting post last night on the Blues subreddit. This is purely speculation so take it with a grain of salt, Some of the details are certainly believable. But still interesting if it's true.

quote1.jpg


If the attached post is accurate i believe the Blues never had any intent to re-sign Petro
 
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Quaz

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Mar 15, 2006
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These negotiations are interesting. I would think DA would want to know if they can work out a deal with Petro by Oct 6th since the draft is their best time to move players to make space for his contract. If they sign him after 10/9 the cap hit will be higher since it will only be for 7 years (unless he gets no offers above $8.25M at 7 years) and they will have a much more difficult time moving salary. I guess they could use T91's LTIR to stay under the CAP till Bozak's NTC protection expires and move him to make space. I guess this also applies to teams like Vegas and TOR who would have to make space to sign him as well. Those teams will have to move some good players to fit him in which would weaken their ability to contend. I could see Petro sign with TOR and then really struggle to adjust to the non-stop media attention, playing a new system under a new coach etc.. Look at the struggles Faulk has had to adjust to a new team, system, coach etc.. The media in TOR would be all over Petro if he signed there and struggled out of the gate. I believe he wants to stay here and they will eventually compromise and work out a deal that works for both sides. What DA does at the draft will be telling.
 

quityerwhinin

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Feb 9, 2017
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I would fine pay Pietro ~10mill.$ AAV x 8 years. Full NMC and bonus. He deserve it. He should retire as Bluenote. Get statue front of Enterprice Center and retire #27. Have most memoriable number retirement show.

Excatly like this type of statue for Pietro.

51M5DRQYZ%2BL._AC_.jpg


There won't be another franchise face like Pietro. Guys like Bozak, Steen, Faulk, Scandella doesn't matter or make diffference for this team. Get rid off players which doesn't matter and pay what make this team Stanley Cup champ.

LOL, that's absurd money for him. Good grief.
 
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Blueston

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I saw this interesting post last night on the Blues subreddit. This is purely speculation so take it with a grain of salt, Some of the details are certainly believable. But still interesting if it's true.

View attachment 369012

If the attached post is accurate i believe the Blues never had any intent to re-sign Petro
Always love insight from someone’s friend’s brother-in-law. Sounds like his friend read JR article.
 

Itsnotatrap

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Oct 6, 2013
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Yes from what I see from all the insiders are saying that's what the issue is very minor things and Petro is getting frustrated about it. It is ridiculous that Army has this hard of a line in the sand. Army is on a very very slippery slope here and Petro could walk because of it.


It’s not minor first off, but if someone thinks it is, then that coin flips the other way too. How could Petro let minor things get in the way of a deal? Why would that all be on the Blues?

Blues draw some pretty hard lines in negotiations on bonuses and clauses, and that has served them pretty well to date. It’s getting the ultimate test now. Just because it worked well for them before doesn’t mean that it will work forever, but I understand why they don’t want to break their negotiating precedents. I’m sure Petro camp is using the fact they kinda broke the precedent halfway in trading for O’Reilly’s contract.

It’s all tough business. This isn’t easy, especially after 2020 happened.
 

Note Worthy

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I don't know how St. Louis is any better place? So much violence and racism.

I’m born and raised in STL and never had one single issue and I’m currently raising my son here.

Now, that doesn’t there aren’t issues in the city because of course there are. But it’s not some war zone. It’s a major metropolitan area that has its bad spots like almost all major metropolitan areas in the country.
 
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