Player Discussion Phillip Danault part 2

[lamp9post]

They can just sign Danault as a UFA, it has nothing to do with their expansion choices.

If Montreal doesn't protect Danault, Seattle can negotiate with him during the expansion draft. If they agree on a contract, that becomes Seattle's pick from Montreal. In short, if Montreal doesn't protect Danault, Seattle has exclusive negotiating rights with him, and can sign him before he hits UFA.

But yes, Seattle could select a player from Montreal AND try to also sign Danault as UFA. Just depends on how they value the player if they are willing to let him go to UFA.

 

[ECWHSWI]

That's just a lie. Danault is carrying Gally defensively the same way Gally is carrying Danault offensively in the regular season. You don't see Gally on the PK the same reason why you don't see Phil on the PP.


But their primary job IS shutting down, so you are just blatantly lying by saying that their primary job is scoring.


I'm talking about the playoffs so yes, they are definitely not better. Danault has the worst offensive wingers out of any center in these playoffs. Funny how you are completely ignoring that when you were relentlessly complaining when it was the other way around...


So again, you are being inconsistent with your arguments. I think it's just a stupid way of calculating points, but since you brought it up, I showed you how he got 2 PP points which Danault would never get the chance to do, he got 2 empty net points which is useless according to yourself and many others, he got 5 points from playing with 2 of the best goalscorers on the team these playoffs which Danault has the opposite, he got a point playing with Eberle who would be 2nd in points for us these playoffs. So removing all the "reasons for scoring points" that you always bring up when Danault produces but completely disregard them when it's the other way around, Pageau has 2 more points than Danault(1 removed for EN). You are right, that's basically Wayne Gretzky.

Of course, this way doesn't work, but you are ignoring the fact that Pageau is in a substantially better position to produce, and kudos to him, he is doing it.


Because saying that Danault and Pageau are playing the exact same shutdown role is just flat out wrong.


Lol, you are once again contradicting yourself. "Goals don't matter" when it's Pageau playing with Palmieri, and "goals matter" when it comes to Danault's goalscoring and him playing with Gallagher. How about you compare the production between the two over the past 3 seasons in the regular season if you are going down that route.


You do know that Wahlstrom was also his consistent linemate right? Zajac played 12 games and Wahlstrom played 5.


But you certainly needed to do your utmost best to make him look bad when he produced back 50+ point seasons and not using those reasons when the tables have turned lol. Danault's been one of our best forwards these playoffs. Coaches, teammates, media and opponents are praising him, but I guess they are all wrong and stupid because points mean everything.

Phil the thrill has 2 assists in SIXTEEN playoffs games... he sucks offensively, no amount of justification will change that.

wake up.

 

[canucklover123]

Phil the thrill has 2 assists in SIXTEEN playoffs games... he sucks offensively, no amount of justification will change that.

wake up.

I trust your assessment, you had some awesome takes here

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

If Montreal doesn't protect Danault, Seattle can negotiate with him during the expansion draft. If they agree on a contract, that becomes Seattle's pick from Montreal. In short, if Montreal doesn't protect Danault, Seattle has exclusive negotiating rights with him, and can sign him before he hits UFA.

But yes, Seattle could select a player from Montreal AND try to also sign Danault as UFA. Just depends on how they value the player if they are willing to let him go to UFA.

Danault shoud hit the market anyways , if he's bright enough after that playoff he should listen to all teams pitch for a juicy contract.

If the heavy rumour that he refused 5.5m during last offseason , This is just a joke at this point. He could be asking 6m for a guy that can't hit 10 goals a season

 

[Andrewcoursol]

He is 28 years old. This is his last chance for a big contract. He is never going to take a 3 years deal. lol

He is going to ask for a 6/6.5m x 7 years contract.

I hope not in Montreal Danault is a minus player right now in these playoffs, and was a minus player in last seasons as well, Price is the big differenrce maker, Armia scores and lays out hit, and is at a plus 8 rating right now, let Danault walk keep Armia replace Danault with Evans ,or someone much cheaper.

 

[CristianoRonaldo]

That's just a lie. Danault is carrying Gally defensively the same way Gally is carrying Danault offensively in the regular season. You don't see Gally on the PK the same reason why you don't see Phil on the PP.

Stop with your B.S, Gallagher was already good defensively before Danault, in 2013-2014 he was playing mostly with the great defensive centre Desharnais and was on ice for 42 goals against, the last time he played a full season with Danault, he was on ice for 55 goals against at even strength.

Goal against per game for MTL in 2013-2014 was 2.45
Goal against per game for MTL in 2018-2019 was 2.88

But their primary job IS shutting down, so you are just blatantly lying by saying that their primary job is scoring.

You are just pulling roles from your ass, a forward needs to do both, shutdown and produce points. You think KK and NS' task is only to produce points ? Maybe they should not think about defending, it's Danault's line job, apparently...

I'm talking about the playoffs so yes, they are definitely not better. Danault has the worst offensive wingers out of any center in these playoffs. Funny how you are completely ignoring that when you were relentlessly complaining when it was the other way around...

Excluding his rookie season, Gallagher used to do well during the playoffs, he used to be on pace for 45 points/82 games, the last two seasons, he's on pace for 26 points... I don't know if it's the Danault effect, but Danault is certainly not helping him offensively.

Gallagher is the best winger of the bunch and he used to produce during the playoffs... Maybe he just needs a better centre.

So again, you are being inconsistent with your arguments. I think it's just a stupid way of calculating points, but since you brought it up, I showed you how he got 2 PP points which Danault would never get the chance to do, he got 2 empty net points which is useless according to yourself and many others, he got 5 points from playing with 2 of the best goalscorers on the team these playoffs which Danault has the opposite, he got a point playing with Eberle who would be 2nd in points for us these playoffs. So removing all the "reasons for scoring points" that you always bring up when Danault produces but completely disregard them when it's the other way around, Pageau has 2 more points than Danault(1 removed for EN). You are right, that's basically Wayne Gretzky.

Again, when half of your production is from EN, it's pathetic, but EN points are not useless. Nobody is "calling out" Suzuki and Toffoli for their EN points, can you see the difference ?

Even if you remove almost all of Pageau's points for whatever reasons, he's still outproducing Danault, you think that's a good argument in your favour ?

Of course, this way doesn't work, but you are ignoring the fact that Pageau is in a substantially better position to produce, and kudos to him, he is doing it.

Danault was in the best scenario to produce during the last playoffs, he started with our best wingers Tatar and Gally, but they were so embarrassing, that Muller had to break them up quickly and played Danault in a shutdown role, where he belongs.

Because saying that Danault and Pageau are playing the exact same shutdown role is just flat out wrong.

I said similar, Pageau is playing against the best opposing lines since the start of the playoffs, in fact, he played mostly against Crosby, Bergeron and Point... You are right, he faced better opposition than Danault.

Lol, you are once again contradicting yourself. "Goals don't matter" when it's Pageau playing with Palmieri, and "goals matter" when it comes to Danault's goalscoring and him playing with Gallagher. How about you compare the production between the two over the past 3 seasons in the regular season if you are going down that route.

Let's compare their last two season:

Pageau: 70 points in 121 games, 40 goals
Danault: 71 points in 124 games, 18 goals

Pageau was playing with Brown, Tkachuk, Nick Paul, Beauvillier, Wahlstrom, Komarov...
Danault was playing with Tatar and Gallagher

Pageau can produce on his "own", because he's able to score goals, something that Danault is really bad at.

You do know that Wahlstrom was also his consistent linemate right? Zajac played 12 games and Wahlstrom played 5.

Do you know that hockey at 5 on 5 is played with only two wingers ? Zajac and Palmieri are the two wingers he played the most with.

But you certainly needed to do your utmost best to make him look bad when he produced back 50+ point seasons and not using those reasons when the tables have turned lol. Danault's been one of our best forwards these playoffs. Coaches, teammates, media and opponents are praising him, but I guess they are all wrong and stupid because points mean everything.

When he was producing 50 points/season, it was glaring that he was not that good, he did not pass the eye test.

His shot is awful.
His passing is average at best.
He's not skilled, he has hands of stone.
No creativity on the offensive zone.

Does that scream top-6 player to you ?

You think they are praising him for his 2 points in 16 games ? Wake up, they are praising him because he's amazing defensively, but hockey is not just about defence.

 

[Guess]

Is there an equivalent to Danault in the league? Godlike defensive prowess but no offensive capability. Wondering what they get paid.

 

[417]

Is there an equivalent to Danault in the league? Godlike defensive prowess but no offensive capability. Wondering what they get paid.

That's what makes his upcoming contract so hard to pin down.

It's gonna be an interesting negotiation.

I guess his closest comparable would be Pageau...

 

[canucklover123]

Is there an equivalent to Danault in the league? Godlike defensive prowess but no offensive capability. Wondering what they get paid.

nick Bonino when he came off the Pittsburgh run and signed in Nashville to be ultimately a 3C , albeit not as good defensively

got a 4.1 per for four years starting in 2017

Pageau better offensively/less defensively signed at 5 per

Lowry at 3.5 I believe off the top of my head. Weakest of the bunch

and backlund signed a 5.35 per for 6 years starting in 2018.

out of those guys, Bonino seems the most comparable (less points than danault , same age ish when signing ) but not nearly the hype danault has right now IMO

 

[smcgreg]

That's what makes his upcoming contract so hard to pin down.

It's gonna be an interesting negotiation.

I guess his closest comparable would be Pageau...

They let Eller go (actually got rid of him), because Danault could do his job cheaper. MTL isn't going to give Danault 5+ M when there are younger guys who can do the job cheaper.

Oh wait,.... Alzner.... nevermind.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Definitely would not offer him a contract before talking to the other top free agents available.
We could spend that cap space on a better player (ex: Landeskog).

 

[RationalExpectations]

His shot is awful.
His passing is average at best.
He's not skilled, he has hands of stone.
No creativity on the offensive zone.
Does that scream top-6 player to you ?
You think they are praising him for his 2 points in 16 games ? Wake up, they are praising him because he's amazing defensively, but hockey is not just about defence.

I agree with most things you said about Gallagher above (even though maybe he had more offensive zone starts than he now does with Danault, would be worth checking)

I also agree that Hockey is not just about defense, but any GM would tell you it is worth it to pay a guy 6m and putting him on a line with 2 2m guys (for a line cap of 10m) if it meas shutting down top lines worth 20+m. I don't think Danault is worth more than Pageau so I think 5m is fair but SEA opens cap space for teams needing this cap, hence Danault may get more than that due to competition. MTL cap space depends mainly on Drouin, so let us see what happens there. My guess is that he is either traded or left open for SEA.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

I agree with most things you said about Gallagher above (even though maybe he had more offensive zone starts than he now does with Danault, would be worth checking)

I also agree that Hockey is not just about defense, but any GM would tell you it is worth it to pay a guy 6m and putting him on a line with 2 2m guys (for a line cap of 10m) if it meas shutting down top lines worth 20+m. I don't think Danault is worth more than Pageau so I think 5m is fair but SEA opens cap space for teams needing this cap, hence Danault may get more than that due to competition. MTL cap space depends mainly on Drouin, so let us see what happens there. My guess is that he is either traded or left open for SEA.

Not because you pay 2 guys 2m that makes 1 player in the bottom 6 worth 6m that's just f***ing insane.

Danault with Lekhonen and Byron would probably get around 20-25 points a season. Giving 6m to a guy that never had PP minutes over players like Nick Cousins and Jordan Weal because he has 0 offensive talent at all is just insane. If he can't take a discount to stay he can just go away. Giving 6m to Danault is as bad as giving 6.5M to Gallagher.

 

[RationalExpectations]

Not because you pay 2 guys 2m that makes 1 player in the bottom 6 worth 6m that's just f***ing insane.

Danault with Lekhonen and Byron would probably get around 20-25 points a season. Giving 6m to a guy that never had PP minutes over players like Nick Cousins and Jordan Weal because he has 0 offensive talent at all is just insane. If he can't take a discount to stay he can just go away. Giving 6m to Danault is as bad as giving 6.5M to Gallagher.

Once again depends how you see a lienup. Habs have no offensive star to pay 10m, so they can afford to pay their 3rd line shutdown more. If you consider this line will negate opposite top lines and once again a 10m line stops a 20+m line this is worth it because it means you have 10+m more to spend on other lines.

I was so happy when Bergevin did not manage to get Tavares as a UFA, because I believe Hockey is a team sport, if you are going to spend 40m among your forward group, better spend it on 4 lines rather than 4 players .

That said I agree that if you can have the same results with Evans at 1m as Danault at 6m, go with Evans.

Regarding contracts, you have to take competition into account : you feel Gallagher is overpaid for his age and roles and that may be the case down the line but right now Gallagher is recognized as one of the most annoying forward in the league, on pace for 30 goals for the past four seasons.

Danault is praised for his defensive play and this is true he is one dimensional, but he is good at what he does. If the Habs make it to the SC (and that's not a done deal yet), I am quite sure he gets 6m as a UFA. Once again not saying the Habs have to do it but they have to think about somebody to replace him next year if they do not. Evans and Poehling could step up but you need a veteran guy with not an Evans like concussion history.

 

[Archijerej]

Is there an equivalent to Danault in the league? Godlike defensive prowess but no offensive capability. Wondering what they get paid.

The "no offensive ability" is a mirage, conditioned by a very specific mission his line is given in the playoffs.

He's got some. Likely not as much as he's shown on a magical line with Tatar and Gallagher, but also not as little as his playoff stats would suggest.

 

[gillyguzzler]

Here we go again... This why we end with pages arguing about players, there are always posters (including me) overrating/downplaying the hell out of a player. Danault is important to the team, but calm down.

You might want to look at the poll oh great one. Suzuki and Danault are 1 and 2. Remove either one from the lineup and it becomes a big problem.

 

[BLONG7]

Is there an equivalent to Danault in the league? Godlike defensive prowess but no offensive capability. Wondering what they get paid.

The guy on the Jets, who has a better offensive game, Lowry? Just signed for 3M per...

 

[BLONG7]

That's what makes his upcoming contract so hard to pin down.

It's gonna be an interesting negotiation.

I guess his closest comparable would be Pageau...

Pageua's offensive game is amazing compared to Phil, but Phil seems better in a the shutdown role...
Keep saying it, 4M for 6 years should get it done...no way should he get more...if he does, he can leave...

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

Stop with your B.S, Gallagher was already good defensively before Danault, in 2013-2014 he was playing mostly with the great defensive centre Desharnais and was on ice for 42 goals against, the last time he played a full season with Danault, he was on ice for 55 goals against at even strength.

Goal against per game for MTL in 2013-2014 was 2.45
Goal against per game for MTL in 2018-2019 was 2.88

View attachment 449156



You are just pulling roles from your ass, a forward needs to do both, shutdown and produce points. You think KK and NS' task is only to produce points ? Maybe they should not think about defending, it's Danault's line job, apparently...



Excluding his rookie season, Gallagher used to do well during the playoffs, he used to be on pace for 45 points/82 games, the last two seasons, he's on pace for 26 points... I don't know if it's the Danault effect, but Danault is certainly not helping him offensively.

Gallagher is the best winger of the bunch and he used to produce during the playoffs... Maybe he just needs a better centre.



Again, when half of your production is from EN, it's pathetic, but EN points are not useless. Nobody is "calling out" Suzuki and Toffoli for their EN points, can you see the difference ?

Even if you remove almost all of Pageau's points for whatever reasons, he's still outproducing Danault, you think that's a good argument in your favour ?




Danault was in the best scenario to produce during the last playoffs, he started with our best wingers Tatar and Gally, but they were so embarrassing, that Muller had to break them up quickly and played Danault in a shutdown role, where he belongs.




I said similar, Pageau is playing against the best opposing lines since the start of the playoffs, in fact, he played mostly against Crosby, Bergeron and Point... You are right, he faced better opposition than Danault.




Let's compare their last two season:

Pageau: 70 points in 121 games, 40 goals
Danault: 71 points in 124 games, 18 goals

Pageau was playing with Brown, Tkachuk, Nick Paul, Beauvillier, Wahlstrom, Komarov...
Danault was playing with Tatar and Gallagher

Pageau can produce on his "own", because he's able to score goals, something that Danault is really bad at.




Do you know that hockey at 5 on 5 is played with only two wingers ? Zajac and Palmieri are the two wingers he played the most with.




When he was producing 50 points/season, it was glaring that he was not that good, he did not pass the eye test.

His shot is awful.
His passing is average at best.
He's not skilled, he has hands of stone.
No creativity on the offensive zone.

Does that scream top-6 player to you ?

You think they are praising him for his 2 points in 16 games ? Wake up, they are praising him because he's amazing defensively, but hockey is not just about defence.

Where is the part when you compare Pageau with Gretzky?

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

Pageua's offensive game is amazing compared to Phil, but Phil seems better in a the shutdown role...
Keep saying it, 4M for 6 years should get it done...no way should he get more...if he does, he can leave...

I once heard media comparing Danault with Pageau and it started an endless comparison between both players here on this board. Why don't we agree to end this bs comparison for the benefit of this board. They are not the same type of player at all, it's a total waste of time. I prefer listening to the media, they stopped comparing both players because they know hockey and they are professionals.

 

[417]

Pageua's offensive game is amazing compared to Phil, but Phil seems better in a the shutdown role...
Keep saying it, 4M for 6 years should get it done...no way should he get more...if he does, he can leave...

I think that's a great deal...gives him security and shows him he's valued as a member of this organization.

 

[ECWHSWI]

The "no offensive ability" is a mirage, conditioned by a very specific mission his line is given in the playoffs.

He's got some. Likely not as much as he's shown on a magical line with Tatar and Gallagher, but also not as little as his playoff stats would suggest.

conditionned to what ? have a weak shot ? not make good plays in the Off. zone ? be an average passer ? not to score ?

for the second playoffs in a row ?


come on now...

 

[Roadhouse]

Is there an equivalent to Danault in the league? Godlike defensive prowess but no offensive capability. Wondering what they get paid.

1999 Mike Peca.

 

[Archijerej]

conditionned to what ? have a weak shot ? not make good plays in the Off. zone ? be an average passer ? not to score ?

for the second playoffs in a row ?


come on now...

How do you explain his production since 2016-17 then? I'd say it's pretty good for a guy with "no offence".

 

[Natey]

I love that he's playing his ass off. But he's still not worth $5M unless it's like a 2 year contract.