OT: Philadelphia 76ers: Onseason

[Redpath]

I’m curious to know how an organization can have a “winning culture” if they don’t actually, you know, win. As in a championship. The Patriots have a winning culture. The Spurs have had a winning culture. For years now, the Flyers have had a “we’re not terrible” culture. At this point I’d rather see my favorite teams shoot for the moon. If they come up short, at least it won’t be for lack of trying.

Are championships the only accomplishments that count towards a winning culture? Being consistently competitive must count for something, otherwise how could you distinguish between the Oilers of the past 12 years versus the Capitals? I think we as Flyers fans have been spoiled with a willingness to spend, a strong culture, and Cup aspirations. The fact that our dip form 2013 to the present (Despite never being a bottom feeder and having 2 playoff appearances regardless) has somewhat tarnished our standing as "winning culture" shows just how good we have had it.

 

[tucson83]

Are championships the only accomplishments that count towards a winning culture? Being consistently competitive must count for something, otherwise how could you distinguish between the Oilers of the past 12 years versus the Capitals? I think we as Flyers fans have been spoiled with a willingness to spend, a strong culture, and Cup aspirations. The fact that our dip form 2013 to the present (Despite never being a bottom feeder and having 2 playoff appearances regardless) has somewhat tarnished our standing as "winning culture" shows just how good we have had it.

exactly, i mean look at the pens, yes they have crosby and malkin but still they couldnt get out of the second round since they won the cup in 2009 but did they tear it down? no, they brought in a new gm and coach and they brought in vets and they won the cup twice.

the thing i hated about hinkie's plan was losing every year and it was never a good idea. if hinkie just brought in some vets while the team was rebuilding and trying to be competive at the same time, i think the sixers would still be a good team because at least the rookies would come in a winning culture and it makes them feel confident and gives them more progression.

 

[Embiid]

exactly, i mean look at the pens, yes they have crosby and malkin but still they couldnt get out of the second round since they won the cup in 2009 but did they tear it down? no, they brought in a new gm and coach and they brought in vets and they won the cup twice.

the thing i hated about hinkie's plan was losing every year and it was never a good idea. if hinkie just brought in some vets while the team was rebuilding and trying to be competive at the same time, i think the sixers would still be a good team because at least the rookies would come in a winning culture and it makes them feel confident and gives them more progression.

Depends on the vets and commitment they would make that would tie up valuable cap space...

 

[JojoTheWhale]

A winning culture has absolutely nothing to do with winning. It's shorthand for the culture that best allows you to win -- a positive attitude and consistent effort, which is the single biggest accomplishment Brett Brown has achieved in his time here. With only a few stretches of exception, this team has played incredibly hard through adversity bordering on the absurd and the guys that leave openly talk about how much they enjoyed being in the locker room.

 

[Hiesenberg]

Brett Brown is gonna be fired.

 

[Jack Straw]

Are championships the only accomplishments that count towards a winning culture? Being consistently competitive must count for something, otherwise how could you distinguish between the Oilers of the past 12 years versus the Capitals? I think we as Flyers fans have been spoiled with a willingness to spend, a strong culture, and Cup aspirations. The fact that our dip form 2013 to the present (Despite never being a bottom feeder and having 2 playoff appearances regardless) has somewhat tarnished our standing as "winning culture" shows just how good we have had it.

Hinkie's goal wasn't to be just consistently competitive, it was to build a championship contender. And he knew that in order to do that, in the NBA, you need at least a couple legitimate star players to build around. And he knew that the best way to get those players is to draft them. Before "The Process" the Sixers were a playoff team- they got to within a win of the conference finals. And they were never going to get any farther with that team. They were a consistently mediocre team and Hinkie realized that a new approach was necessary. And as Embiid (the poster) already noted, if the lottery balls had fallen differently or some injuries hadn't happened, things would probably farther along than they are now.

But I remember both Flyers championships, and if anyone had told me then that 40+ years later we'd still be waiting for #3 I would have laughed. And here we are. Honestly, I don't follow my teams to see them win championships. It's great obviously, but that's not what makes me a fan. But what I do really like, is seeing an organization develop young talent, and watching that young talent grow into a championship team. I saw that with the Flyers and Phillies in the '70s, and the Phillies again in the 2000's. I enjoyed watching those teams much more than the Flyers teams that won a bunch of games because management was willing to spend money to get veteran players that I didn't feel much connection to.

This Sixers team has the chance to be something very special. Three games in is a little early to be writing them off as losers.

 

[Jack Straw]

exactly, i mean look at the pens, yes they have crosby and malkin but still they couldnt get out of the second round since they won the cup in 2009 but did they tear it down? no, they brought in a new gm and coach and they brought in vets and they won the cup twice.

the thing i hated about hinkie's plan was losing every year and it was never a good idea. if hinkie just brought in some vets while the team was rebuilding and trying to be competive at the same time, i think the sixers would still be a good team because at least the rookies would come in a winning culture and it makes them feel confident and gives them more progression.

This is pretty much what they were doing during the Doug Collins era. And what did it get them? Had they done what you’re suggesting they would not have Embiid, Simmons, and Fultz today.

 

[Hurricane28]

exactly, i mean look at the pens, yes they have crosby and malkin but still they couldnt get out of the second round since they won the cup in 2009 but did they tear it down? no, they brought in a new gm and coach and they brought in vets and they won the cup twice.

the thing i hated about hinkie's plan was losing every year and it was never a good idea. if hinkie just brought in some vets while the team was rebuilding and trying to be competive at the same time, i think the sixers would still be a good team because at least the rookies would come in a winning culture and it makes them feel confident and gives them more progression.

You can't compare team building in hockey to basketball because its a whole different way to build a team. The old Sixers also didn't have a Crosby and Malkin. They had Spencer Hawes, Thaddeous Young, and Evan Turner. Just adding more vets wouldn't have beaten LeBron and the Heat. If you add more vets to your roster, you do exactly what the Nets did, and sell out their future for declining vets and now they don't have their own first round pick until 2019.

Hinkie absolutely did the right thing. You need a superstar to win in this league and picking in the top 3 increases your chances of getting that superstar. And now they Simmons and Embiid. And hopefully Fultz. What the Nets did was so dumb mainly because they gave up so much, and no matter who they acquired no one in the East had any chance of beating LeBron.

 

[Jack Straw]

Also, the Capitals are an interesting choice of a team that has a “winning culture”. I used to live in DC and I’d go to games where the building was half empty and half the fans who were there were wearing orange and black. There was no winning culture to be seen. But they drafted Ovechkin, and Backstrom, and Green, and Carlson, etc... they brought in a good coach (Boudreau) and the winning started. They’ve done it the right way but unfortunately there are no guarantees. They didn’t have the “winning culture” that the Flyers had, but they’ve been a better team than the Flyers for some time now.

 

[deadhead]

You can't compare team building in hockey to basketball because its a whole different way to build a team. The old Sixers also didn't have a Crosby and Malkin. They had Spencer Hawes, Thaddeous Young, and Evan Turner. Just adding more vets wouldn't have beaten LeBron and the Heat. If you add more vets to your roster, you do exactly what the Nets did, and sell out their future for declining vets and now they don't have their own first round pick until 2019.

Hinkie absolutely did the right thing. You need a superstar to win in this league and picking in the top 3 increases your chances of getting that superstar. And now they Simmons and Embiid. And hopefully Fultz. What the Nets did was so dumb mainly because they gave up so much, and no matter who they acquired no one in the East had any chance of beating LeBron.

Worse than that, they had stripped the team of draft picks and young players in the Bynam trade.
So not only were they a 30-35 win team, but one that was going downhill.

Hinkie wasn't about tanking, he was about accumulating assets. He know there would be some misses (Noel, Jah), but if you collected enough draft picks you'd accumulate enough talent to be a good team. But it would take some gambles and luck to be a great team, i.e. drafting Embiid.

Sixers only had 1 #1 pick, they traded for the Fultz pick, Embiid was a #3, Jah #3, Noel #6, Saric #12, Covington UDFA.
They accumulated a lot of extra picks, 1st and 2nd rd, and that's how you fill out a roster at low cost.
TJ UDFA, Holmes 2nd rd, TLC #24, Korkmaz #26, Bolden 2nd rd (he'll be here next year).

Sixers have a winning culture b/c of Brown. He's gotten them to consistently play hard, especially on defense. But it will take time to jell.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Lol. Don’t even put Jah and Noel in the same category.

 

[Embiid]

Lol. Don’t even put Jah and Noel in the same category.

Speakin of Jah...he keeps saying in the press how he knows he is not part of the team going forward. It is a shame he has become such a sunk cost...

 

[Redpath]

Hinkie's goal wasn't to be just consistently competitive, it was to build a championship contender. And he knew that in order to do that, in the NBA, you need at least a couple legitimate star players to build around. And he knew that the best way to get those players is to draft them. Before "The Process" the Sixers were a playoff team- they got to within a win of the conference finals. And they were never going to get any farther with that team. They were a consistently mediocre team and Hinkie realized that a new approach was necessary. And as Embiid (the poster) already noted, if the lottery balls had fallen differently or some injuries hadn't happened, things would probably farther along than they are now.

But I remember both Flyers championships, and if anyone had told me then that 40+ years later we'd still be waiting for #3 I would have laughed. And here we are. Honestly, I don't follow my teams to see them win championships. It's great obviously, but that's not what makes me a fan. But what I do really like, is seeing an organization develop young talent, and watching that young talent grow into a championship team. I saw that with the Flyers and Phillies in the '70s, and the Phillies again in the 2000's. I enjoyed watching those teams much more than the Flyers teams that won a bunch of games because management was willing to spend money to get veteran players that I didn't feel much connection to.

This Sixers team has the chance to be something very special. Three games in is a little early to be writing them off as losers.

Well in my mind being consistently competitive is the same as being a contender, but that just comes down to how we personally use those phrases. I'm pretty casual with the NBA so I can't speak much on the subject, I just disagreed with your assessment on the Flyers' culture. 40 years without a Cup hurt, yes, but the Flyers are also in the upper-echelon of the NHL in Final appearances since 1975, and that comes with the misfortune of not drawing one-hit wonders in the Final, either. Spanning across multiple decades we've been Cup contenders, these past 5 years aside.

Also, the Capitals are an interesting choice of a team that has a “winning culture”. I used to live in DC and I’d go to games where the building was half empty and half the fans who were there were wearing orange and black. There was no winning culture to be seen. But they drafted Ovechkin, and Backstrom, and Green, and Carlson, etc... they brought in a good coach (Boudreau) and the winning started. They’ve done it the right way but unfortunately there are no guarantees. They didn’t have the “winning culture” that the Flyers had, but they’ve been a better team than the Flyers for some time now.

To clarify, I in no way consider the Capitals to have a winning culture. They are dysfunctional in their own right (Not being able to get out of the 2nd round), but they deserve credit for what they have built in recent times. Even though they have no championships to show for it, they have a "winning culture" in comparison to a truly awful franchise (In recent times, anyway) such as the Oilers.

I apologize for derailing NBA discussion. Fun times ahead for sure.

 

[Jack Straw]

No problem. I agree that being competitive can mean different things to different people, but it also can mean different things in different sports. In the NHL a team like the 2010 Flyers can come within a shootout of missing the playoffs and yet end up in the finals. That just doesn’t happen in the NBA. In the NBA you have the same two teams in the last three finals (and likely the same two this year as well) and that just doesn’t happen in the NHL. In the NHL just being good enough to make the playoffs can be enough. In the NBA it’s not.

 

[deadhead]

Lol. Don’t even put Jah and Noel in the same category.

Noel was a miss, they were hoping for more than a rotation defensive center, they thought he could be a poor man's Davis, but he never got strong enough or developed any sort of offensive game.

He has the same problem as Trump, small hands.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Noel was a miss, they were hoping for more than a rotation defensive center, they thought he could be a poor man's Davis, but he never got strong enough or developed any sort of offensive game.

He has the same problem as Trump, small hands.

https://www.libertyballers.com/2016...oel-jahlil-okafor-contract-money-player-value

 

[Jack Straw]

Simmons hits a jump shot. Film at 11:00.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

He looks good on the defensive so far end tonight too.

 

[Jack Straw]

He looks good on the defensive so far end tonight too.

The whole team does. Embiid looks much more active than he did the first two games.

 

[Jack Straw]

Good first quarter. Now three more please.

 

[Cody Webster]

"sucks in the d"

Of all the things you could say, that's what you come up with? Lol

 

[Jack Straw]

Zumoff is fired up

 

[Embiid]

Simmons has been fun to watch. Rackin up the double doubles

 

[Cody Webster]

Doing their best to piss this one away I see

 

[Embiid]

Doing their best to piss this one away I see

Hopefully not but too tight considering the leads they have had.