Peter DeBoer after McLellan

[SJGoalie32]

Just look at the Belichik's Patriots. Very few people would say that their players for the most part are top-notch, yet they execute better than stars at their position.

Belichick was 41-55 as a head coach....then he met Tom Brady.

None of us are saying that the head coach doesn't matter or has zero impact. They clearly do have an impact and the best coaches can get their players to execute at their best.

What we're effectively saying is that player talent trumps all, and the small extra percent of execution a good coach can get out of a player over an average coach is very slim. It is there, but it has only a minimal factor in the actual end results.

We're also pointing out that coaching has a MUCH greater impact in a sport like football where the head coach can actually have a direct impact on the game with his direct control over clock management, what plays are being run in which situations, and even choosing whether to punt or to try to go for 3 points or to try for 6/7/8 points. These are direct coaching decisions that have an impact on the game

Hockey, by contrast, is loosely just controlled chaos. You can plan and plan and plan and have this X go here and that O go there....and then the puck hits a stick, deflects off a body, and now you trail.

Look at Tippett all those years when he coached basically an AHL + Doan that was DANGEROUS,

The Coyotes were much more than an AHL team in those years. They maybe didn't have a lot of top end forward talent, but they were very good defensively and in goal.

But even taking what you say as true.....the Coyotes also had a lot of terrible seasons under Dave Tippett. So either Dave Tippett hit his head in 2012 and suddenly forgot how to coach, or coaching really isn't the most important factor in hockey.

Not saying it's not AN important factor, but it's not the most important one. And far less so than in other sports where in-game coaching decisions have immediate direct impacts on the score.

 

[hohosaregood]

I think that a hockey coach can have a big effect on the players they have. I mean, we've seen how teams play before and after coaching changes and sometimes, things change a lot. Darryl Sutter has one of the best possession systems year in and year out and even this year with about the worst defense the Kings have had since he's taken over, he's lead a league leading possession system. Randy Carlyle put together a historically bad possession system in place in Toronto and now Babcock, with an arguably much worse team, has a better possession system in place already.

Of course, a coach is gonna need the right players to play the system he wants but some coaches are really good and some are really bad regardless of the players on hand.

However, it kinda seems like we're trying to compare turn based strategies and real time strategies comparing football and hockey strategy and that's pretty much apples to oranges.

 

[Kitten Mittons]

Don't you guys remember the first year McLellan coached the team? We were unstoppable (until the playoff choke). It's his first year, I'm sure it's all downhill from now lol.

 

[hohosaregood]

Don't you guys remember the first year McLellan coached the team? We were unstoppable (until the playoff choke). It's his first year, I'm sure it's all downhill from now lol.

I definitely wouldn't be surprised if that happened.

 

[coooldude]

If DeBoer can't lead the team through the process of adjusting to Nashville's adjustments, namely:

• Adjusting their breakout to our forecheck
• adjusting their PK to press harder on our points and collapse their D.
• Harder forecheck in our zone along the boards, ala Sharks style
• Solving Jones by shooting glove-high

Then DeBoer is no better than any past failing coaches we've had who have been out-coached and seen their team out-played in the 2nd+ round.

If we win game 4 or lose in OT after a hard-fought close game, I'll still feel fine. If anything else happens including losing a close game in regulation, it's time to hit the panic button. Again.

 

[Levie]

If DeBoer can't lead the team through the process of adjusting to Nashville's adjustments, namely:

• Adjusting their breakout to our forecheck
• adjusting their PK to press harder on our points and collapse their D.
• Harder forecheck in our zone along the boards, ala Sharks style
• Solving Jones by shooting glove-high

Then DeBoer is no better than any past failing coaches we've had who have been out-coached and seen their team out-played in the 2nd+ round.

If we win game 4 or lose in OT after a hard-fought close game, I'll still feel fine. If anything else happens including losing a close game in regulation, it's time to hit the panic button. Again.

I already hit the panic button.

 

[Tkachuk4MVP]

Don't you guys remember the first year McLellan coached the team? We were unstoppable (until the playoff choke). It's his first year, I'm sure it's all downhill from now lol.

Figures you'd come out of hiding just long enough to post something negative.

 

[Gilligans Island]

I definitely wouldn't be surprised if that happened.

Same.

I wouldn't be surprised if this was like the 2006 Oilers series. Team hits a rough patch when the opponent adjusts/ups their game and boom, 4 straight losses. Goodbye.

Obviously I want our Sharks to prove me wrong...

 

[Kitten Mittons]

Figures you'd come out of hiding just long enough to post something negative.

Y'all have been too peppy lately. Gotta fix that.

 

[hohosaregood]

I like everything about what Deboer's done for this team this year. Strong defense, fast offense, contributions from everywhere, and adjusting his system in the right ways. Plus, it's just a system that is a joy to watch.

Hopefully this year isn't a Deboer anomaly.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

Nah its DeBoer not being micromanaged. DW doesn't meddle like Lou did in N.J. He got to pick his guys on his staff. No Scott Stevens or Adam Oates.

 

[Led Zappa]

The most important thing DeBoer has done is manage his players ice time and not panic. From the beginning of the season, through the playoffs.

 

[Coy]

I think DeBoer is a lot better with player unity or the Sharks just get along better than they did under the TMac era (helps when there are no Heatleys/Winniks in the room). They all seem like such good friends.

 

[SactoShark]

The most important thing DeBoer has done is manage his players ice time and not panic. From the beginning of the season, through the playoffs.

I think the best ting he's done has not to step on any toes coming in and to tweak the decidedly improved roster without diminishing any one player's role.

 

[Led Zappa]

I think the best ting he's done has not to step on any toes coming in and to tweak the decidedly improved roster without diminishing any one player's role.

I agree to disagree, but I do agree that he's done a great job in that area as well.

 

[Sleepy]

Hello All -

Thoughts on Pete DeBoer? He previously had only made the playoffs once, and when the Sharks hired him all feedback was very polarized. Either he was a terrible coach that stifled youth development and couldn't make the playoffs, or he was a coach who kept terrible teams from being in last place. What are your thoughts now?


Some highlights from the Sharks hiring DeBoer thread, bolding mine:

As a Devils fan he is a good coach when he has a veteran team that can skate decently well. He doesn't do well with rookies and younger players and often keeps them on a short leash aka "having them watch a game from the press box to get a different view" heavy on the forecheck more of a grind them down style. Relies on offensive zone pressure. Tends to blow multiple goal leads way to often. Sometimes too aggressive causing defensive breakdowns.

I posted this on the general board. Pros and cons with Deboer:


Pros:
- A sound tactician who will implement a thorough, multi-phased system. Even Jagr stated that the Devils puck pursuit oriented system on both sides of the ice was complex. Breakouts, assignments, etc.
- commands respect in locker-room
- will lean on veterans


Cons:
- Holds grudges against players who's play style & demeanor he differs with (see Larsson, Tedenby and others)
- Plays favorites with role players who follow his orders to a 'T'
- Stubborn in bucking from his philosophy when it doesn't work
- if this sharks team does not have the proper conditioning, DeBoer will burn them out with his aggressive system. It's very taxing and an older devils team simply burnt out as the season went along.

Pete Deboer is a damn good coach. You should all be happy.

The guy will probably bring in Dave Barr for either your Powerplay, or Penalty Kill, and he was extremely successful at both with NJ.

Deboers system was extremely frustrating when we had the personnel to execute it. The forwards hard on the forecheck, the defense picking great times to pinch.

Adam Larsson was the big negative in Deboers NJ day. What Devils fans won't tell you is that Deboer really helped Adam Larssons defensive game a ton.

Seriously, I'm very happy for you guys. Congrats!

His Florida stint is a big tell. Those teams were almost entirely made up of players in the development process and they didn't really take any positive steps. He's had a few successes in New Jersey but the same issues crop up. I didn't say he's completely incapable of developing players. He's just not good at it as his coaching history shows.

Need to ensure that there is respect in/out of lockerroom. And I think that might start with a new captain (Pavelski, me thinks).

Sharks have been into conditioning for more than a decade. Even have a training camp award for best conditioned. (Pavelski has usually won it.)

^Soon to be once in 8

Edit: Addressing the tweet

Who is the young shark player most likely to end up in DeBoer's doghouse? Because it will happen. Pete will banish a young player for making a bad turnover at center ice.

That's got Nieto written all over it.

On the face of it this is a ****ing terrible hire if true

I hope it's not true. Given all the hate for GM Doug Wilson these days, feels like DW is trolling us.

"I can do anything I want because I have Hasso Plattner in my back pocket. Don't believe me? Here's Peter Deboer for your head coach. Bwahahahaha."

In my opinion at the time, it was an OK hire. But in retrospect, DeBoer has done a much better job of resting Thornton/Pavs than McLellan did, and has reduced their PK responsibilities in a no-brainer move. His forecheck is more aggressive, and his offensive system is less rigid and allows creativity. I like it, although at the time I wasn't sure.

Skimming through the list of gripes about Todd's management, I don't disagree, but I think they also echo the depth issues we've also been hollering about past teams. Both coaches had to play the hand dealt, and Pete's probably had one of the better looking hands.

I dunno. This talk is so premature. Todd went to the WCF twice in a row. Sharks are still in the first round.

I agree with you in general, but a lot of solid "Depth" players were good before SJS, terrible under McLellan, and good after McLellan. As an example, Winnik springs to mind.

 

[Ser Jorah Mormont]

Peter DeBoer is the GOAT coach in Sharks history.

 

[hohosaregood]

Peter DeBoer is the GOAT coach in Sharks history.

If he wins two more games then he'd definitely be the most successful.

 

[Paka Ono]

I want to preface this with I'm still a big fan of TMc, however, omfg I looooove our power play this year!

And it doesn't all fall on Todd. The notorious anemic PP has been a Sharks trait even before TMc.

But to me, it's easily the most noticeable impact he's had on this team. This might the best PP we've had ever?

 

[DonskoiDonscored]

Peter DeBoer is the GOAT coach in Sharks history.

If he makes it to the SCF this is true.

I wouldn't be upset if we flamed out after this as long as we win the cup. I'll deal with years of mediocrity if we do it.

 

[Coy]

I pretty much started to hate TMac by the end of his tenure. He showed no willingness or ability to adapt to a changing game and the team suffered from it.

 

[magic school bus]

Trying to win after tanking. Wait, that's giving them too much credit. Trying to win after being really bad at their job.

 

[SHAR KS]

So DeBoer was a finalist for the Sharks job in 08? Wonder how the last 7 years go if he had beat out McLellan for the job..

 

[Timos Death Stare]

So DeBoer was a finalist for the Sharks job in 08? Wonder how the last 7 years go if he had beat out McLellan for the job..

Not a whole lot different IMHO. We needed better goal tending and more depth to do damage. This is the first team that has that in forever. IMO since 08-09, and we all know how that ended. (sorry, that still has me upset as I thought we had something there)

 

[hohosaregood]

So DeBoer was a finalist for the Sharks job in 08? Wonder how the last 7 years go if he had beat out McLellan for the job..

I'm gonna assume that coaching all those bad teams helped out Deboer's development as a coach.