Post-Game Talk: | Pens vs Stars | loss | Cant play 60min

[Andy99]

Shot selection to me is a coaching problem…every time last night I noticed too many long range shots and no one in the blue paint to get rebounds or try screens etc…Im sure Sullivan is telling them “just keep shooting, it will go in” lol…where and how they take many shots seems coached into them…on the other hand, flubbing easy shots where they should have elevated etc is on the player…I think too many times though there are east west plays to be made to get the goalie moving, or plays where the player could have cut inside, changed the shooting lane, etc and I’ve thought, ”I wonder if they took the shot they did because the coach wants that style of play” lol

 

[Andy99]

If you play well you put yourself into the best position possible to get the result. Unfortunately there's a great deal of luck involved in hockey, and goalies are a thing.

I don't think that makes fancy stats overrated. The teams that make the playoffs are by and large teams that rate well in those stats. There's the occasional exception, but not a lot of them.

The article Vensel wrote today, that I posted above, discusses various stats that are correlated to winning playoff teams…unfortunately the Pens don’t have many of them, maybe shot generation is the only meaningful one…they don’t have a top 10 or top 5 offense or defense, and their goal differential is probably still negative if not near zero, among other stats…ergo, he concludes the Pens won’t go on some magically run that people think might be in them for the playoffs lol

 

[Gurglesons]

Shot selection to me is a coaching problem…every time last night I noticed too many long range shots and no one in the blue paint to get rebounds or try screens etc…Im sure Sullivan is telling them “just keep shooting, it will go in” lol…where and how they take many shots seems coached into them…on the other hand, flubbing easy shots where they should have elevated etc is on the player…I think too many times though there are east west plays to be made to get the goalie moving, or plays where the player could have cut inside, changed the shooting lane, etc and I’ve thought, ”I wonder if they took the shot they did because the coach wants that style of play” lol

I agree 100% on this one.

 

[vodeni]

Shot selection to me is a coaching problem…every time last night I noticed too many long range shots and no one in the blue paint to get rebounds or try screens etc…Im sure Sullivan is telling them “just keep shooting, it will go in” lol…where and how they take many shots seems coached into them…on the other hand, flubbing easy shots where they should have elevated etc is on the player…I think too many times though there are east west plays to be made to get the goalie moving, or plays where the player could have cut inside, changed the shooting lane, etc and I’ve thought, ”I wonder if they took the shot they did because the coach wants that style of play” lol

HCMS definitively forces this low high game any kind of shooting breaking defense the best approach, however he does preach at least after every game or pregame that we need netfront presence that we need guys infront, so its not like he is oblivious to that issue. His problem is that he either does not have those kind of players that instinctively gravitate towards the net and or that he keeps telling the same guys to do that and they are just not doing it. Thats on him, you need to identify who those players could be and coach them throughout the season to make sure they do that, could be different people until you stumble upon those that are good at that and do that consistently.
The other thing last night was the first time in like forever to see all three even four lines skating through NZ in numbers and supporting. That resulted in numerous good looks and quick 3 on 2 and 2 on 1s. At that point, geno, heinen, Rust, Jake, Rakell must score at atleast average pace...

 

[Coastal Kev]

Boy, you would have looked silly if they did that.

? weird response

How would "I" look silly?

 

[Pancakes]

I do think there is something going on with the Pens and scoring goals under Sullivan.

It's happened enough seasons in a row now that if it's just statistical noise it'd be very unlucky.

But what are ya gonna do. 10 games left, the system isn't changing. Play like they played the last two and hope it gets you in. No room for off nights any more.

 

[BusinessGoose]

? weird response

How would "I" look silly?

MAF is not a playoff goalie

And you ALWAYS look silly when you try to prove you are a soothsayer

 

[Ryder71]

If you play well you put yourself into the best position possible to get the result. Unfortunately there's a great deal of luck involved in hockey, and goalies are a thing.

I don't think that makes fancy stats overrated. The teams that make the playoffs are by and large teams that rate well in those stats. There's the occasional exception, but not a lot of them.

I get what you're saying, but the end result really is all that matters. If you take comfort in the fact that our Advanced stats in some circles are good, fine. But at the end of the day it doesn't really matter if the result is a loss. I think too many people focus on those stats, I'm not suggesting they aren't useful, I'm just suggesting they aren't the be all end all.

 

[LOGiK]

I get what you're saying, but the end result really is all that matters. If you take comfort in the fact that our Advanced stats in some circles are good, fine. But at the end of the day it doesn't really matter if the result is a loss. I think too many people focus on those stats, I'm not suggesting they aren't useful, I'm just suggesting they aren't the be all end all.

But they have nice colors...

 

[Ugene Magic]

2 games this week Chad cost them

Friedman is better

 

[HandshakeLine]

Couldn't or wouldn't? From everything I've read it's the latter.


There you have it. Generation is not the problem.

What on earth have you been reading then? also look at the return Chychrun got, we weren’t coming close to that, with our trashz

I think you would be the type of person that would cave in as well. You seem like a company man to me, you'd just want to fit in and not ruffle any feathers. LOL

That’s me alright.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

HCMS definitively forces this low high game any kind of shooting breaking defense the best approach, however he does preach at least after every game or pregame that we need netfront presence that we need guys infront, so its not like he is oblivious to that issue. His problem is that he either does not have those kind of players that instinctively gravitate towards the net and or that he keeps telling the same guys to do that and they are just not doing it. Thats on him, you need to identify who those players could be and coach them throughout the season to make sure they do that, could be different people until you stumble upon those that are good at that and do that consistently.
The other thing last night was the first time in like forever to see all three even four lines skating through NZ in numbers and supporting. That resulted in numerous good looks and quick 3 on 2 and 2 on 1s. At that point, geno, heinen, Rust, Jake, Rakell must score at atleast average pace...

If you employ Kunitz, prime Horny, prime Bonino and hell even Jake and Sid from 5 years ago - hell yes that is the type of system and offensive zone philosophy you SHOULD be employing. Those guys all had an edge to their game and they went towards the net often and with bad intentions.

The problem now is our 2 best players are 36 and don't/should not be doing that kind of dirty work. Sid and Geno should not be the puck possessors and carriers into the OZ. They should play a major supporting role in creating space and passing lanes with their skill.

But outside of Rakell and Zucker we've got a bunch 3rd wheels. Sid and Geno still carry the bulk of the water and their backs are eventually gonna break. I will surely jinx it, but this season is an anomaly with both of them being relatively healthy. That's likely not going to repeat next year. Man can you even imagine these 2 being out? We're talking Cbus BJ level bad here...that's not hyperbole

 

[Gurglesons]

If you employ Kunitz, prime Horny, prime Bonino and hell even Jake and Sid from 5 years ago - hell yes that is the type of system and offensive zone philosophy you SHOULD be employing. Those guys all had an edge to their game and they went towards the net often and with bad intentions.

The problem now is our 2 best players are 36 and don't/should not be doing that kind of dirty work. Sid and Geno should not be the puck possessors and carriers into the OZ. They should play a major supporting role in creating space and passing lanes with their skill.

But outside of Rakell and Zucker we've got a bunch 3rd wheels. Sid and Geno still carry the bulk of the water and their backs are eventually gonna break. I will surely jinx it, but this season is an anomaly with both of them being relatively healthy. That's likely not going to repeat next year. Man can you even imagine these 2 being out? We're talking Cbus BJ level bad here...that's not hyperbole

it is though.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

it is though.

We may see if that comes true next year. I mean we'll probably have essentially the same team.

So remove 1 of Sid/Geno for 5-10 games right now and see how horrific this team performs.

 

[Gurglesons]

We may see if that comes true next year. I mean we'll probably have essentially the same team.

So remove 1 of Sid/Geno for 5-10 games right now and see how horrific this team performs.

Rakell would be the best goal scorer on the blue jackets.

 

[Coastal Kev]

MAF is not a playoff goalie

And you ALWAYS look silly when you try to prove you are a soothsay

No offense, but I have been pretty spot on with my "soothsaying".

MAF was a playoff goalie in 18-20. My point being is that this team has managed assets terribly, and continue to do so.

MR. goose, this is the good times. Unless they make a complete 180 firing/hiring this offseason........ it get's much more awful/worse/laughable next season and beyond.

 

[Pem]

The article Vensel wrote today, that I posted above, discusses various stats that are correlated to winning playoff teams…unfortunately the Pens don’t have many of them, maybe shot generation is the only meaningful one…they don’t have a top 10 or top 5 offense or defense, and their goal differential is probably still negative if not near zero, among other stats…ergo, he concludes the Pens won’t go on some magically run that people think might be in them for the playoffs lol

They don't need a magical run. They need one point more than panthers, or whoever else is nipping at their heels. Five or six more wins might do it. The panthers had been on a 7 game win streak, I knew that would end. As if on cue it did.

 

[ronduguayshair]

The past 2 games I've been pleasantly surprised at what I'm seeing. The intensity from this team definitely changed. They could play like this and go 0-82 and I'd be ok with it.

The refs absolutely blew chunks. I mean when you could call a penalty on either team nearly every shift, you wonder where the line is as a player that gets you whistled. I mean so much nonsense, cross checking, tripping, interference in front of the Dal net it wasn't even funny.



Funny how you were awol a few weeks ago along with your "rooting for the name on the back, Sid Crosby" when he did his own disappearing act.

How amateurish and shortsighted of you

I was banned. So it was impossible.

 

[wej20]

Side note, Steve Levy is a terrible commentator.

 

[SEALBound]

I think sometimes we underestimate how few guys there are (that are available) that are in the mold of prime-Kunitz, Hornqvist, etc. If you name then now, most would fall on the "OMG LIKE NO WAY! HE SURX!". Example: Josh Anderson.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

If you employ Kunitz, prime Horny, prime Bonino and hell even Jake and Sid from 5 years ago - hell yes that is the type of system and offensive zone philosophy you SHOULD be employing. Those guys all had an edge to their game and they went towards the net often and with bad intentions.

The problem now is our 2 best players are 36 and don't/should not be doing that kind of dirty work. Sid and Geno should not be the puck possessors and carriers into the OZ. They should play a major supporting role in creating space and passing lanes with their skill.

But outside of Rakell and Zucker we've got a bunch 3rd wheels. Sid and Geno still carry the bulk of the water and their backs are eventually gonna break. I will surely jinx it, but this season is an anomaly with both of them being relatively healthy. That's likely not going to repeat next year. Man can you even imagine these 2 being out? We're talking Cbus BJ level bad here...that's not hyperbole

I think a part of the problem with our roster and why we seem to do well in xGF but not actual goals for, is the type of players we have.

To score in this league you generally need to be one of two things:
1-Great shot who can pick the corners even when the goalie is squared up/unscreened
2-Go to the net, establish presence and bang in rebounds/deflect shots/screen the goalie

Too much of our roster doesn't fall into either category. We don't really consistently have guys in front of the net doing a good job of taking away the goalie's vision and causing havoc for the opposition defenders, and we also don't have guys other than Sid, Geno and Jake who can pick corners to beat an unscreened goalie.

Too many wack-a-mole types who generate offense through quantity rather than quality shots and who take unscreened shots because we don't have guys going to the net and planting themselves there every chance they get.

IMO, Rust is the poster boy for what's wrong with our team. He refuses to go to the net and stay there, instead opting to kind of float around the perimeter waiting for someone to get him the puck, and when he gets the puck he doesn't have the accuracy or velocity to blow shots past goalies so he'll spend those HDCF on muffins at the goalie's chest.

 

[Andy99]

I think a part of the problem with our roster and why we seem to do well in xGF but not actual goals for, is the type of players we have.

To score in this league you generally need to be one of two things:
1-Great shot who can pick the corners even when the goalie is squared up/unscreened
2-Go to the net, establish presence and bang in rebounds/deflect shots/screen the goalie

Too much of our roster doesn't fall into either category. We don't really consistently have guys in front of the net doing a good job of taking away the goalie's vision and causing havoc for the opposition defenders, and we also don't have guys other than Sid, Geno and Jake who can pick corners to beat an unscreened goalie.

Too many wack-a-mole types who generate offense through quantity rather than quality shots and who take unscreened shots because we don't have guys going to the net and planting themselves there every chance they get.

IMO, Rust is the poster boy for what's wrong with our team. He refuses to go to the net and stay there, instead opting to kind of float around the perimeter waiting for someone to get him the puck, and when he gets the puck he doesn't have the accuracy or velocity to blow shots past goalies so he'll spend those HDCF on muffins at the goalie's chest.

Yep, our top six wingers other than Jake are not great scoring type wingers, however you define that…we need a Pasternak

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Boeser might've been that guy. Flawed, to say the least, but this team's not in the position to snag guys without flaws due to its asset/cap situation and Boeser's shot is elite. Might not have worked out--shit, probably wouldn't have, but there's a non-zero chance he could be the finisher missing from the equation at the top of the lineup. Sure as f*** a better chance than Granlund ever being anything but a huge waste of $5 million a year.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

What on earth have you been reading then? also look at the return Chychrun got, we weren’t coming close to that, with our trashz

The right sourcez.
With this timid GM we weren't, no.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

The right sourcez.
With this timid GM we weren't, no.

I thought it was reported the Pens were in on Chychrun until the Coyotes ultimately decided Ottawa's picks had more value to them than Pittsburgh's or anyone else involved at the last minute.