Series Talk: PENS vs Montreal Canadiens Round 1 (Best Of Five) - Episode II: On a peur, très peur!

[AuroraBorealis]

Hint: He is the one who fell asleep in his chair.



JR is missing quite the show though. Both Crosby and Geno came to play.

Malkin worked hard at his 2-way game all year. Probably the most hard working season he's had. Credit to him. This training camp's just a continuation of this season.

 

[Shrimper]

1am starts then looking at the game times..

 

[heysmilinstrange]

I'm a little nervous about the exhibition game against the Flyers. Hope no one gets injured.

 

[Ryder71]

I'm a little nervous about the exhibition game against the Flyers. Hope no one gets injured.

Yeah, I can't say I like that at all! I was hoping for a two period scrimmage against the Habs or Leafs.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I still think it's f***ing dumb for the tourney to move forward, all pandemic factors considered, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a little bit excited to watch hockey again.

 

[Ryder71]

We should really play both goalies and suspect Sully will. I also hope they let 22-24 players dress so we can get some depth guys a bit of work in an actual game.

 

[2wayPlay]

I still think it's f***ing dumb for the tourney to move forward, all pandemic factors considered, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a little bit excited to watch hockey again.

Well you are a BFD

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I'm a little nervous about the exhibition game against the Flyers. Hope no one gets injured.

It's of no concern, the Penguins are just dressing Jack Johnson and Chad Ruhwedel for the entire game with Emil Larmi in net for a learning experience.

 

[2wayPlay]

So I think it’s been determined the forward and defensive groupings but what about special teams?

PP1

Jake Sid Horny
Tang Malkin

PP2
Marleau McCann Rust
Zucker Schultz.......?

honestly have no idea about PP2 so thoughts

PK1
Bluegs Tanev
JJ Tang

PK2
Mcann Rust
Dumo Pets......?

once again no clue on PK2 and also not sure if JJ stays PK1?

 

[EightyOne]

Until they run into one another and are out for the playoffs.

Tell me that no one else was thinking it.

f*** leclair

I still think it's f***ing dumb for the tourney to move forward, all pandemic factors considered, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a little bit excited to watch hockey again.

sid and geno having fun is terrifying for league

 

[Honour Over Glory]

f*** leclair
sid and geno having fun is terrifying for league

Sid having fun is scary for the league.
Malkin angry and healthy is scary for the league.

 

[Tender Rip]

Does anyone here trust Sheary to not bring down Sid's line, bigly, defensively?

With our 4th line having drawn very hard matchups all season and a healthy top 6 being able to play against anyone, I would really much rather have Horny with Sid and Jake, and Sheary with McCann and Marleau to hopefully abuse opponents 4th lines. They're fast and there's some offensive punch to them for a bottom 6 line.

 

[EightyOne]

As a huge Sheary hater, I'm okay trying him up front. All he needs to do is get open....

 

[Honour Over Glory]

As a huge Sheary hater, I'm okay trying him up front. All he needs to do is get open....

I see that falling midget swapped with Horny and Tanev depending on what they need out of Sid's line.

 

[Gurglesons]

Does anyone here trust Sheary to not bring down Sid's line, bigly, defensively?

With our 4th line having drawn very hard matchups all season and a healthy top 6 being able to play against anyone, I would really much rather have Horny with Sid and Jake, and Sheary with McCann and Marleau to hopefully abuse opponents 4th lines. They're fast and there's some offensive punch to them for a bottom 6 line.

I think having the bottom three lines we have this year will allow us to exploit that top line a lot more than we could in 16-17 and 17-18.

I also think we have a stronger defense than we had in either of those years despite J.J. AbraSchultz

 

[CascadiaPenguin]

I think that's all pretty fair. I think McCann should be fine on THAT line but I get what you mean.

I really, really want to say Marino is the real deal. But this is all a different animal and I get that people would be anxious to see how he responds. Though I think he'll be fine. You can sort of get a sense when a guy is just ripping it up on adrenaline/hot streak and when they legit have a great toolbox to work with. Marino was consistently doing things all last season that made him look like a seasoned vet. A GOOD seasoned vet. Those kind of smarts and savvy can't be taught and he has them. He might get overwhelmed but dude seems like he has icewater running through his veins.

Yohe and Phil were pretty stoked on Marino Tuesday:

Yohe:
"Sometimes, when I watch practice, I like to focus on certain players. Makes it more fun, breaks up the monotony of practice. Other times, a player looks so good that it simply snatches your attention.That’s what Marino did Tuesday. During three-on-two drills, groupings of Penguins forwards swooped in on Marino and Marcus Pettersson on three different occasions. On all three, Marino calmly anticipated the play and intercepted the puck.

A moment later, I approached former Penguins player and broadcaster Phil Bourque. “I’ll tell you who looks great out there,” I said. The ol’ 29’er finished my sentence for me.
“Marino,” he said. “I just said the same thing to three people. Oh my gosh.”
That pretty much sums it up. It was one practice, but everything he did was just right. He’s special."

 

[Peat]

So I think it’s been determined the forward and defensive groupings but what about special teams?

PP1

Jake Sid Horny
Tang Malkin

PP2
Marleau McCann Rust
Zucker Schultz.......?

honestly have no idea about PP2 so thoughts

PK1
Bluegs Tanev
JJ Tang

PK2
Mcann Rust
Dumo Pets......?

once again no clue on PK2 and also not sure if JJ stays PK1?

PP1 should be Rust Sid Horny Tanger Malkin as that was their best unit and it's their most balanced unit, and Jake might be more talented than Rust but he doesn't enter the zone as well and that left half-wall isn't a place where he's better than Rust. But I suspect you're right, or that if Rust is there, Horny isn't, which would be even stupider.

Which means Guentzel should be on PP2. They usually roll 2 dmen there, so insert Pettersson for Marleau or Zucker.

PK forwards look accurate but towards the end of the season, JJ Tang were the second PK pairing with Pettersson as the spare, and Dumo Marino the first PK pairing.

Does anyone here trust Sheary to not bring down Sid's line, bigly, defensively?

With our 4th line having drawn very hard matchups all season and a healthy top 6 being able to play against anyone, I would really much rather have Horny with Sid and Jake, and Sheary with McCann and Marleau to hopefully abuse opponents 4th lines. They're fast and there's some offensive punch to them for a bottom 6 line.

I don't really trust Sheary to do anything consistently in the playoffs. That said, I think people focus a little too much on when Sheary couldn't hold up his end, and little too little on when Sid and Sheary destroyed all, and think it'll be fine as long as Sid's line is taking care of business with the forecheck and in the neutral zone. If they start getting pinned, then I think Sheary gets swapped for Horny.

Also, I'd rather see Marleau-McCann-Horny take some hard minutes and send Sid out there to pick on the runts of the litter, not that Sully's necessarily going to do that.

 

[Tender Rip]

I don't really trust Sheary to do anything consistently in the playoffs. That said, I think people focus a little too much on when Sheary couldn't hold up his end, and little too little on when Sid and Sheary destroyed all

Part of the reason for that is probably that the former mostly happened in the regular season and the latter with regularity in the playoffs . He had a very respectable finals series against San Jose though in this rookie year though.

and think it'll be fine as long as Sid's line is taking care of business with the forecheck and in the neutral zone. If they start getting pinned, then I think Sheary gets swapped for Horny.

Very likely that they start out like that. After all that has been the progression in the past. A more concrete issue I have though - much linked to the above - is that Sheary works well with Sid when its North-South transition heavy hockey, which we really excelled at especially in 2015-2016 due to our speed advantage on everyone. We don't have that to the same extent anymore as the league caught on, and when we have to battle through, get dirty goals and win board battles, Sheary becomes a liability more so than pretty much any other player on the roster when he is played above his station/against better opponents.

Also, I'd rather see Marleau-McCann-Horny take some hard minutes and send Sid out there to pick on the runts of the litter, not that Sully's necessarily going to do that.

It will likely be just a few offensive draws per game where Sully can really get Sid out there against also rans. Opponents will consistently try to have their best our against our top6, usually Sid in primis, and Sully will rather play our 4th line against heavy opposition than the 3rd. So, there really shouldn't be that many 'hard minutes' left, IMO.

Ultimately, either Horny or Sheary should do well on the 3rd line in that kind of scenario, so it is all about which one of them is better with/for Sid's line to be effective.
For my money, Horny is one of those players who plays the same no matter the opposition. He doesn't have the talent or wheels to abuse lower level players through pure skill, and his wolverine qualities are about as effective against great players as they are against lower rung guys. With Sheary I think it is rather different, and he should benefit more from softer matchups relatively speaking.

Anyway... we will likely get to see both, and if our exhibition game against Philly is "for real" then that is a very proper measuring stick for deciding on the midget vs. wolverine strategies. Against Montreal it truly shouldn't matter either way, and if it does we aren't getting where we want to be anyway.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Yohe and Phil were pretty stoked on Marino Tuesday:

Yohe:
"Sometimes, when I watch practice, I like to focus on certain players. Makes it more fun, breaks up the monotony of practice. Other times, a player looks so good that it simply snatches your attention.That’s what Marino did Tuesday. During three-on-two drills, groupings of Penguins forwards swooped in on Marino and Marcus Pettersson on three different occasions. On all three, Marino calmly anticipated the play and intercepted the puck.

A moment later, I approached former Penguins player and broadcaster Phil Bourque. “I’ll tell you who looks great out there,” I said. The ol’ 29’er finished my sentence for me.
“Marino,” he said. “I just said the same thing to three people. Oh my gosh.”
That pretty much sums it up. It was one practice, but everything he did was just right. He’s special."

Marino is a f***ing stud.

 

[Peat]

Part of the reason for that is probably that the former mostly happened in the regular season and the latter with regularity in the playoffs . He had a very respectable finals series against San Jose though in this rookie year though.

Slight overstatement. They fell apart against Columbus and Washington in 16-17 (although amply productive against Columbus, just the line got destroyed defensively), let in a ton of goals against against Washington in 15-16 but with the sort of stats that says I'd like to rewatch the goaltending (and were again plenty productive), were very good against San Jose, destroyed the Rangers, were decent against Nashville and a bit lucky with score effects and good against Tampa and a little unlucky with score effects. Aaand I just realised I forgot Ottawa existed and they conceded 3 goals there but statistically really shouldn't have. An on ice save percentage of 72.73% and letting in 3 out of 4 high danger chances is probably on goaltending.

Don't get me wrong - it has been an issue, and the greatest feats have been regular season, but there's been a lot of goalscoring from the line and a lot of series where's it worked. People's last memories of Sheary in the playoffs seem to be that Columbus series, wondering where all the offence went after NYR, and the goal vs San Jose. It leaves a lot of stuff out.

Very likely that they start out like that. After all that has been the progression in the past. A more concrete issue I have though - much linked to the above - is that Sheary works well with Sid when its North-South transition heavy hockey, which we really excelled at especially in 2015-2016 due to our speed advantage on everyone. We don't have that to the same extent anymore as the league caught on, and when we have to battle through, get dirty goals and win board battles, Sheary becomes a liability more so than pretty much any other player on the roster when he is played above his station/against better opponents.

I think the speed is less a skating thing and more a pace of play thing. If we can find our groove and force the game to be fast and open, Sheary will be fine, and I think we can still do that as long as we're not allowed a ton of clean zone entries in force. I've also got little concern about Sheary's ability to work a cycle with Sid (although I do about consistency) - it's simply the risk of getting penned in our zoned that bothers me.

I'd also point out Hornqvist over Sheary means the game is more likely to slow down anyway, which doesn't help us.

It will likely be just a few offensive draws per game where Sully can really get Sid out there against also rans. Opponents will consistently try to have their best our against our top6, usually Sid in primis, and Sully will rather play our 4th line against heavy opposition than the 3rd. So, there really shouldn't be that many 'hard minutes' left, IMO.

Looking at how it ran last time, probably true.

Ultimately, either Horny or Sheary should do well on the 3rd line in that kind of scenario, so it is all about which one of them is better with/for Sid's line to be effective.
For my money, Horny is one of those players who plays the same no matter the opposition. He doesn't have the talent or wheels to abuse lower level players through pure skill, and his wolverine qualities are about as effective against great players as they are against lower rung guys. With Sheary I think it is rather different, and he should benefit more from softer matchups relatively speaking.

Anyway... we will likely get to see both, and if our exhibition game against Philly is "for real" then that is a very proper measuring stick for deciding on the midget vs. wolverine strategies. Against Montreal it truly shouldn't matter either way, and if it does we aren't getting where we want to be anyway.

Slightly horses for courses based on the other guys there. I don't think you're wrong about Sheary theoretically being better equipped to abuse less skilled players, but Horny possibly buys the rest of his line more space to do it, and given they're maybe less likely to take risks and seek to collapse on the net, is more useful there.

But yes, we're probably going to see both. Guentzel is probably fixed on Sid's line, the other slot will be mix and match.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Marino is going to be a #1 defenseman for the Penguins within 3 years. The only reason I'm not saying next year is because I expect him to have somewhat of a sophomore slump like Pettersson had. If I was JR, I'd be trying to lock down Marino to a long term deal right now, I'd happily give him the Parayko extension (5 years at $5.5 million).

That's also why I find some of the Pettersson hate kinda funny. He was awesome last year and then had a sophomore slump this year, but he was still solid this year. It's more likely than not that Pettersson is better next year than he was last year, and that makes the Penguins top-4 insanely stacked.

 

[Peat]

Marino is going to be a #1 defenseman for the Penguins within 3 years. The only reason I'm not saying next year is because I expect him to have somewhat of a sophomore slump like Pettersson had. If I was JR, I'd be trying to lock down Marino to a long term deal right now, I'd happily give him the Parayko extension (5 years at $5.5 million).

That's also why I find some of the Pettersson hate kinda funny. He was awesome last year and then had a sophomore slump this year, but he was still solid this year. It's more likely than not that Pettersson is better next year than he was last year, and that makes the Penguins top-4 insanely stacked.

Given that he's more or less just had an off-season, wondering if Marino will get a sophomore slump in the playoffs - or if he doesn't, whether that means he'll avoid one next season as well.

 

[Ms Maggie]

Marino is a f***ing stud.

He is! Kinda funny as he looks like he's 12.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Why is a sophomore slump a given?

 

[Empoleon8771]

Why is a sophomore slump a given?

Because more players have them than not. With the Penguins, all of Guentzel, Dumoulin, Pettersson and Murray had sophomore slumps.