GDT: Pens Playoff Push: Hold on to your butts!

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Gurglesons

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You can doubt it, but my lord they haven't even entered the system yet, you're just being intentionally obtuse here.

No, I'm being realistic about the caliber of prospect we returned and how run of the mill they are.

I don't get wher you are even coming from in regards to these guys. They are nothing special.

Every team that has any prospect system has literally 4 or 5 of these types of players.
 
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HandshakeLine

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Pono hits what?

Kid is 4 years out from his draft year next season. If he was going to hit he'd have been in the NHL. Injury concern, 23, he's pretty much at the make it or break it age.

I'm not even sure where he'll fit on the NHL roster next year.

We have Eller, Nieto and Acciari who are all hypothetically 4th liners.
Exactly, we also can grab that kind of player on waivers or trades all day long, all season long. We sign those kind of guys frequently. We have a few in the pipeline. I'm just not really sure what the end goal was with the whole trade.

Sure, maybe one becomes better than what we currently have (I certainly hope so), but at the end of the day, bottom 6 guys aren't what I'd be trading for in the rebuild. You draft or sign those.
 

Ryder71

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No, I'm being realistic about the caliber of prospect we returned and how run of the mill they are.

I don't get wher you are even coming from in regards to these guys. They are nothing special.

Every team that has any prospect system has literally 4 or 5 of these types of players.
And this team had largely no prospects to speak of, you gotta start somewhere.

I'm not giving up on them, I'm just saying it doesn't make much sense for a rebuilding team to trade a valuable asset for things they already have in the system + things that won't be useful to them when the rebuild is nearing its end.

Let's assume this marks the beginning of the rebuild. Why trade for bottom 6ers and a guy with top 9 potential instead of aiming for higher blue chips or a guaranteed 1st? Walk me through how you see it fitting into the rebuild, because while we get more prospects, only Koivunen has some sort of boom potential IMO.
Who in the system mimics Koivunen?
 
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Ryder71

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Exactly, we also can grab that kind of player on waivers or trades all day long, all season long. We sign those kind of guys frequently. We have a few in the pipeline. I'm just not really sure what the end goal was with the whole trade.

Sure, maybe one becomes better than what we currently have (I certainly hope so), but at the end of the day, bottom 6 guys aren't what I'd be trading for in the rebuild. You draft or sign those.
Very simple, to start the process of turning the page. What, you think we're gonna get the next Bedard for A soon to be UFA?

No, Ponomarev. Koivunen I grant is most interesting piece of the deal. But I'm just not sure why we are concerned with guys like Ponomarev.
Because they're younger and it signals a change to investing time in young guys. Like trading Ruhwedel and bringing up St. Ivany.
 

Ryder71

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I expected a return of actual good pieces versus a bunch of grab bags.
So again, you're already concluding these prospects are busts. I guess if they're not Sure fire can't miss guys you're not interested. That's just not being realistic for even a high end UFA.
 

HandshakeLine

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Very simple, to start the process of turning the page. What, you think we're gonna get the next Bedard for A soon to be UFA?


Because they're younger and it signals a change to investing time in young guys. Like trading Ruhwedel and bringing up St. Ivany.
No, you draft those, of course. But that's why you go for picks because although picking in the top 5 is a surer way of getting a very good player, you can find gems throughout the 1st or gain capital to move up at the draft.

I don't mind trading to get younger, you and I are on the same page there. But why not sell off everything of value then? Or at least some of hte old vets who could garner some interest in order to get younger? That I don't get. If we were doing the rebuild, I would expect to see us move players like Eller, Carter, Pettersson, for more assets, not keep them around.

Again, I think Dubas is trying to thread the needle here by not really rebuilding but trying to gain prospects. But I don't think that's a productive idea because we're not really getting anything of value for a rebuild so far. I hope I'm wrong about Koivunen.
 
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Gurglesons

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So again, you're already concluding these prospects are busts. I guess if they're not Sure fire can't miss guys you're not interested. That's just not being realistic for even a high end UFA.

They are prospects that are acquired with the intention that they are moved.

There was ways to get more value. I would've simply took a 1st and a piece like Jack Drury over what we got.

Honestly, I would've just moved away from Carolina. They schooled Dubas just like they did on the Marleau trade.
 
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Ryder71

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They are prospects that are acquired with the intention that they are moved.

There was ways to get more value. I would've simply took a 1st and a piece like Jack Drury over what we got.
We may end up with a 1st anyhow. But considering this draft class I'd prefer Koivunen, he'll likely be ready sooner than some 18 yr old 31st OA pick.

No, you draft those, of course. But that's why you go for picks because although picking in the top 5 is a surer way of getting a very good player, you can find gems throughout the 1st or gain capital to move up at the draft.

I don't mind trading to get younger, you and I are on the same page there. But why not sell off everything of value then? Or at least some of hte old vets who could garner some interest in order to get younger? That I don't get. If we were doing the rebuild, I would expect to see us move players like Eller, Carter, Pettersson, for more assets, not keep them around.

Again, I think Dubas is trying to thread the needle here by not really rebuilding but trying to gain prospects. But I don't think that's a productive idea because we're not really getting anything of value for a rebuild so far. I hope I'm wrong about Koivunen.
We might trade pieces this Summer. Again Dubas hasnt had the job even a year yet, he's gonna need time. He's trying to appease the Core , management and the fan base all at the same time. The previous GM put this team behind the 8 ball. This is a long term endeavor.
 
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Pancakes

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Because they had to.

They couldn't risk keeping Jake, missing the playoffs, and not re-signing him.

Also, Dubas has no allegiance to Jake.

They were forced into moving him.

And it's obvious the package was severely based on "win now pieces". The main prospects are "NHL ready" and the most valuable piece in the trade was Michael Bunting.
That package to me kinda suggests that Dubas wants flexibility. If he brings in a bunch of prospects he gets to keep some of them for the future while presumably trading other prospects for win now help.

It's the typical wishy-washy half in half out shit the Pens have been in love with doing the past few years.
 

Gurglesons

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Why is it weird? This process will take time, if you're holding out hope this aging core has one more good run in them you're gonna be very disappointed.

I'm holding out hope that our management team makes creative, intelligent moves.

I don't care what path they go down. But if they are going to rebuild, do it the right way.

If you are going to compete. Do it the right way.

Instead we have a GM moving a 1st and a 2nd for a win now EK65, signing Jarry and Graves to 5 year deals and then using Jake Guentzel's trade value to acquire another middle six winger in Bunting with term.

There is no path or pattern. And very lame moves.
 
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Ryder71

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I'm holding out hope that our management team makes creative, intelligent moves.

I don't care what path they go down. But if they are going to rebuild, do it the right way.

If you are going to compete. Do it the right way.

Instead we have a GM moving a 1st and a 2nd for a win now EK65, signing Jarry and Graves to 5 year deals and then using Jake Guentzel's trade value to acquire another middle six winger in Bunting with term.

There is no path or pattern. And very lame moves.
If the '23 draft and the Jake trade is any indication I'd be optimistic for the long term future.
 

Ryder71

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Nov 24, 2017
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I'm holding out hope that our management team makes creative, intelligent moves.

I don't care what path they go down. But if they are going to rebuild, do it the right way.

If you are going to compete. Do it the right way.

Instead we have a GM moving a 1st and a 2nd for a win now EK65, signing Jarry and Graves to 5 year deals and then using Jake Guentzel's trade value to acquire another middle six winger in Bunting with term.

There is no path or pattern. And very lame moves.
Taking a swing with EK made sense, it didn't work, now he's pivoting. He wanted to give the core a chance, he was new, made sense. Since it failed he can now put his stamp on the team after catering to the core one final time. Not sure it's all that difficult to understand. His recent moves suggest he'll be heavily reliant on youth moving forward.

Trading Jake beyond the prospects and Bunting, afforded a younger DOC a more prominent role.
trading Ruhwedel and Bringing up St Ivany and playing Shea

Seems pretty clear to me. Did it their way, they fell on their face, now it's his way.
 
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Gurglesons

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Dec 18, 2009
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Taking a swing with EK made sense, it didn't work, now he's pivoting. He wanted to give the core a chance, he was new, made sense. Since it failed he can now put his stamp on the team after catering to the core one final time. Not sure it's all that difficult to understand. His recent moves suggest he'll be heavily reliant on youth moving forward.

Trading Jake beyond the prospects and Bunting, afforded a younger DOC a more prominent role.
trading Ruhwedel and Bringing up St Ivany and playing Shea

Seems pretty clear to me. Did it their way, they fell on their face, now it's his way.

You're gonna be a old sad little man this summer.
 
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