News Article: Penguins want Jet Fuel

[tbcwpg]

Taking a few hooking penalties 200 feet from your net will also put an AHL call-up on the bench or in the press-box pretty quickly.

Yep, you have to think he learned that from watching video of Andrew Ladd

The fact that he's still here is a good sign that the team likes him enough to keep him around just in case. He's not getting any better in the AHL at this point. He still needs to adjust to the NHL. He'll get more chances, but his wing play is pretty mediocre at the moment.

As for the Pens D, just looked at the young guys they have and they're ALL lefties.

 

[Huffer]

Ah yes the hfboards winnipeg "we need forwards" meme. Even though for the past three years we're average or above average in shots for and goals for, and below average for shots against and goals against. Look at our roster and organizational depth. We're using 3 top 4 RHD on 3 different pairings because none of them are comfortable on the left side. We also have exactly ONE top 4 LHD. Clitsome is a #5 or even a #6 at times. Stuart, Ellerby and Pardy are all plugs that shift around the waiver wire and at free agency. Morrissey is our only decent LHD in the system. If he's more of a long term prospect, Enstrom could be gone by the time he's ready. Even if we pick up a decent LHD in free agency he's likely a 1 or 2 year bandaid.

What is our greatest trade bait right now? Most if not all would say Byfuglien, and to a shorter extent Jokinen and Setoguchi. The latter two likely are to get picks only, and maybe a b grade prospect. Buff is good trade bait, but how often do you trade D for D? He'll likely return two forwards maybe as part of a larger package. Think B Schenn + Simmonds.

If we're able to fleece Shero now with either Ladd or Wheeler, we could very much set this franchise up for the long term future. This trade also does not happen in a vacuum, Chevy would need to know what to do with Setoguchi and Jokinen, and would need to know what kind of return Buff would get.

We do need more forwards. If it's a meme here, it's only because it's true. You seem to be the only one who thinks otherwise.

The only way the Jets can even think about moving one of those three is if they not only get extreme over-payment from the Pens (Like Maata or Despres + Sutter + Pouliot), but then get over-payment for Buff and get two top six forwards (Like Schenn and Simmonds).

So are we banking on not one, but two massive over-payment deals in our favour here?

 

[almostawake]

I think something like Dumoulin and a 3rd would be a good return for Setoguchi but I have a feeling that if Shero is sniffing around this early in the season it is for bigger and more long term pieces than Setoguchi.

Of the three Lawless mentioned I think the most likely (but still highly unlikely) is Wheeler for Maata+. In a vacuum a trade like that doesn't make much sense for the Jets because it leaves them with too many defencemen. But if it sets up a trade with Byfuglien going for multiple forwards maybe there is something there.

In any case, the thing that makes any of those three to the Penguins highly unlikely is their cap situation. With just the contracts currently on the books the Penguins are already over next year's projected 70M cap and that doesn't include guys like Sutter that you'd assume they must resign. Adding another long term piece at 4.5M plus would really force them to rearrange their roster.

 

[cbcwpg]

Hmmmm... Wheels sure, but not Ladd or Kane.

Wheels, although is putting up numbers now, is inconsistent and could dry up in a flash and never score again for 2 months.

Kane is 22 and could play for the Jets for another 10-15 years. Too much upside with Kane unless you get a young ( franchise ) talent in return. Unless they are willing to part with some guy named Crosby.

 

[Bristo]

I think something like Dumoulin and a 3rd would be a good return for Setoguchi but I have a feeling that if Shero is sniffing around this early in the season it is for bigger and more long term pieces than Setoguchi.

Of the three Lawless mentioned I think the most likely (but still highly unlikely) is Wheeler for Maata+. In a vacuum a trade like that doesn't make much sense for the Jets because it leaves them with too many defencemen. But if it sets up a trade with Byfuglien going for multiple forwards maybe there is something there.

In any case, the thing that makes any of those three to the Penguins highly unlikely is their cap situation. With just the contracts currently on the books the Penguins are already over next year's projected 70M cap and that doesn't include guys like Sutter that you'd assume they must resign. Adding another long term piece at 4.5M plus would really force them to rearrange their roster.

I'm wondering how we can involve the Sabres and Flyers in order to get their 2015 1st Rounders...

 

[jetkarma*]

When is Burmi eligible to return to the NHL, is it this year once KHL is done? I thought he signed for two years or is year two an option year?
Id rather package Burmi up with Buff for players.

Pretty sure any KHL contract is "negotiable "

 

[allan5oh]

We do need more forwards. If it's a meme here, it's only because it's true. You seem to be the only one who thinks otherwise.

We need forwards, we need defencemen. I'm looking at our organization as a whole, and taking a long term pragmatic approach. My view for the past 3 seasons always been that we need to prevent shots and goals against, and nothing is improving there. Forward "holes" are easier to fill. Centers can play wing, and wingers can switch sides pretty easily. Some prefer their off side. Some LHD can play on the right side, but very few RHD can play the left side. D-men in general are not as flexible, as we're seeing on our team.

The only way the Jets can even think about moving one of those three is if they not only get extreme over-payment from the Pens (Like Maata or Despres + Sutter + Pouliot), but then get over-payment for Buff and get two top six forwards (Like Schenn and Simmonds).

So are we banking on not one, but two massive over-payment deals in our favour here?

We don't need overpayment for Buff for this to work. The first one would have to be overpayment. Shero could get desperate. He did trade two 2nds for crankshaft.

The second deal like I said here or elsewhere could be Buff + for Schenn and Simmonds, or something along those lines. There's lots of teams interested in Buff. However if we just trade Buff we still have a huge black hole at LHD. It's also very unlikely that we can trade Buff for LHD because D for D trades don't happen very often. A Buff trade is absolutely essential to make a trade like this work. I wouldn't even consider trading one of our top 3 wingers unless something else also worked either now, at the deadline, or in the summer. If Chevy did pull the trigger on something like this, the above statement must be true.

It would be a mini-rebuild, but maybe that's what we need moving forward.

 

[Huffer]

We need forwards, we need defencemen. I'm looking at our organization as a whole, and taking a long term pragmatic approach. My view for the past 3 seasons always been that we need to prevent shots and goals against, and nothing is improving there.



We don't need overpayment for Buff for this to work. The first one would have to be overpayment. Shero could get desperate. He did trade two 2nds for crankshaft.

The second deal like I said here or elsewhere could be Buff + for Schenn and Simmonds, or something along those lines. There's lots of teams interested in Buff. However if we just trade Buff we still have a huge black hole at LHD. It's also very unlikely that we can trade Buff for LHD because D for D trades don't happen very often.

I wouldn't even consider trading one of our top 3 wingers unless something else also worked either now, at the deadline, or in the summer. If Chevy did pull the trigger on something like this, the above statement must be true.

It would be a mini-rebuild, but maybe that's what we need moving forward.

It's not that all that can't work, it's that it all has to work together or it makes us worse IMO.

Can the Jets get B Schenn and Simmonds for Buff? If not (and a comparable deal can't be found with another team) the whole thing doesn't work. Can the Jets get Maata or Despres + Sutter etc for Wheeler? Because I don't see the Jets moving Kane or Ladd, regardless of our lack of RW depth.

At the very least, Chevy couldn't move one of those three without first moving Buff (for the replacement forward(s)), and signing one or both of Seto and Jokinen.

 

[ajmidd12]

I think Lawless is off his rocker with this one. There are 29 other teams in the league who want a player off the Jets, in regards to the Pens, they couldn't afford what it would take to get one of our top players, besides that would mean Chevy is unsure of his team and based on his press releases it doesn't sound like that.

Besides we don't need any more picks and blue-line depth at this moment.

 

[PhilJets]

ok lets do this Penguins

byfuglien , wheeler, klingberg

for
malkin

ladd malkin little
kane schiefele frolik
Burmistrov jokinen setoguchi
peluso cormier thorburn

enstrom trouba
stuart bogosian
clitsome ellarby

 

[powder88]

I think Lawless is off his rocker with this one. There are 29 other teams in the league who want a player off the Jets, in regards to the Pens, they couldn't afford what it would take to get one of our top players, besides that would mean Chevy is unsure of his team and based on his press releases it doesn't sound like that.

Besides we don't need any more picks and blue-line depth at this moment.

Sorry, but I have an issue with this statement. Just because we had one successful (it appears) draft last year, doesn't mean everything is fine. Don't forget, we are already down a 2nd rounder next year for our Setoguchi rental. Picks will continue to have value for this franchise for several years to come IMO.

Also, if you are saying that we have enough 5/6/7/8 calibre defencemen, that's fine. But don't confuse that with a significant need for a #2 LHD to play behind Toby. We are a long way from adequate depth in that respect.

 

[ajmidd12]

Sorry, but I have an issue with this statement. Just because we had one successful (it appears) draft last year, doesn't mean everything is fine. Don't forget, we are already down a 2nd rounder next year for our Setoguchi rental. Picks will continue to have value for this franchise for several years to come IMO.

Also, if you are saying that we have enough 5/6/7/8 calibre defencemen, that's fine. But don't confuse that with a significant need for a #2 LHD to play behind Toby. We are a long way from adequate depth in that respect.

Ohh ********. Our depth on the blue-line is much deeper than quality forwards.

We don't need to start selling the farm because the team is at .500, like I said the Pens will have to pay top dollar for our players just like every other team in the league should have to. Seto for a 2nd was a good pickup, considering the 2014 draft is weak I would say we got a good deal on that front. You may not like Seto, you're entitled to your opinion, however he is a good filler.

 

[Guerzy]

Interesting. I see a whole lot of writing and words from Lawless, but not much else. Just doesn't make sense to me. Trading one of Kane, Wheeler or Ladd for the mentioned type of deals in this article would clearly indicate the Jets/Cheveldayoff are 're-building' (literally), but I don't view it that way, I think we're more so 'building'. And, I think in due time with the right moves being made, it can work.

Personally, I hate "future's" deals, they rarely ever work out, in my opinion. You always end up trading the best player in the deal in pure hopes those prospects/picks coming in return add up to their potential. Some deals work out well, but I'm just not a huge fan of them. If we are trading these type of players, I want a more proven young NHL'er. These type of deals happen in the offseason generally speaking, not the trade deadline. I want a good, quality, hockey trade. Hossa/Heatley, Carter/Johnson, Seguin/Eriksson, Richards/Schenn+Simmonds, Carter/Voracek, etc, etc. Deals with more in terms of established but relatively young players, or close to it, rather than complete unknowns in the form of a Pens 1st round pick (it's gunna be near the end of the 1st round), Despres, Bennett, Pouliot, Harrington, Dumoulin, etc. Maatta looks nice right now, but he's not enough at this point, in my opinion. Something more concrete would need to be packaged with him to get me thinking and even considering.

I still like our "core". I like Ladd, Little, Wheeler, Kane, Bogosian, Enstrom. These are quality NHL'ers in my opinion and I do believe as a group they can put up better results than we've seen. I really like what we are seeing from Scheifele and Trouba. We've got something here, I think, but at some point Chevy will need to advance this roster with a move or two (just my opinion) as well as (finally) adding to the supporting cast with legitimate, quality NHL players and not the dime a dozen waiver fodder he's added in recent time. Ladd just turned 28, Wheeler just turned 27 before the season started, Kane just turned 22 before seasons start. Trading these guys at this point for future question marks would be foolish, in my opinion.

By all indications Chevy and co. are slowly but surely (in their own way) building this team, not re-building. Huge difference. It may work, it may not, but there is a huge difference between the two roads. Our road doesn't start by trading one of Ladd, Wheeler or Kane for a futures deal. Unless Chevy and co. are all but done with these guys, and I can't see that being the case given the recent long-term, lucrative contracts just handed out.

Edit: To clarify, I am open to trading anybody, but the deal has to be right and make complete sense for this team and organization today and headed forward.

 

[ajmidd12]

^ Well said, agree entirely.

 

[buggs]

I still like our "core". I like Ladd, Little, Wheeler, Kane, Bogosian, Enstrom. I really like what we are seeing from Scheifele and Trouba. We've got something here, I think, but at some point Chevy will need to advance this roster with a move or two (just my opinion). This doesn't start by trading one of Ladd, Wheeler or Kane for a futures deal.

Agreed, this type of deal just doesn't make sense. Are the Jets where they need to be? No, not even close. Are there lots of holes on the team? Yes indeed - goal, LHD, forward depth. We also need to keep looking at the longer term horizon and continue to stock the farm. But is this the way to do it? Nope.

Moving certain pieces to fill certain holes is fine. I'm guessing though with us being at the midway point and six points out of the wildcard spot in the west, Chevy isn't ready to sell the core off at this point. Yeah, I think we'll miss the playoffs, but until that looks a lot more likely you don't move a piece like Wheeler, Kane or Ladd. Once it is likely, then you move roster pieces out that are expiring assets that have some value to other teams - Seto, Olli, Stuart. Sure, you only get picks back likely but that's ok - that could be three second rounders right there and possibly a third thrown in, like the Oduya trade brought?

Now if someone wants to come in and make an overpayment for a stud Jet, so be it. But I think Chevy's smart enough to not let anything less than that happen.

 

[Boreal]

Interesting. I see a whole lot of writing and words from Lawless, but not much else. Just doesn't make sense to me. Trading one of Kane, Wheeler or Ladd for the mentioned type of deals in this article would clearly indicate the Jets/Cheveldayoff are 're-building' (literally), but I don't view it that way, I think we're more so 'building'. And, I think in due time with the right moves being made, it can work.

Personally, I hate "future's" deals, they rarely ever work out, in my opinion. You always end up trading the best player in the deal in pure hopes those prospects/picks coming in return add up to their potential. Some deals work out well, but I'm just not a huge fan of them. If we are trading these type of players, I want a more proven young NHL'er. These type of deals happen in the offseason generally speaking, not the trade deadline. I want a good, quality, hockey trade. Hossa/Heatley, Carter/Johnson, Seguin/Eriksson, Richards/Schenn+Simmonds, Carter/Voracek, etc, etc. Deals with more in terms of established but relatively young players, or close to it, rather than complete unknowns in the form of a Pens 1st round pick (it's gunna be near the end of the 1st round), Despres, Bennett, Pouliot, Harrington, Dumoulin, etc. Maatta looks nice right now, but he's not enough at this point, in my opinion. Something more concrete would need to be packaged with him to get me thinking and even considering.

I still like our "core". I like Ladd, Little, Wheeler, Kane, Bogosian, Enstrom. These are quality NHL'ers in my opinion and I do believe as a group they can put up better results than we've seen. I really like what we are seeing from Scheifele and Trouba. We've got something here, I think, but at some point Chevy will need to advance this roster with a move or two (just my opinion) as well as (finally) add to the supporting cast with legitimate players and not the dime a dozen waiver fodder he's added in recent time.

None of this starts by trading one of Ladd, Wheeler or Kane for a futures deal. Unless Chevy and co. are all but done with these guys, and I can't see that being the case given the recent long-term, lucrative contracts just handed out.

 

[drumzan]

Just a personal philosophy, but I believe in getting as many high draft picks as possible. I'd trade Wheeler for 2014 and 2015 1st round picks. 2015 is key because the Pens have shown the kind of luck they have at finding generational talents like McDavid in the draft. LOL! Maataa and a 2015 1st rounder would be good too.

The Blackhawks are showing how having d-man depth helps. Morrissey/Maataa/Trouba/Bogosian would be a heck of a long-term top 4.

I'd be open to trading Kane too. Would like to see what kind of proposals would come Chevy's way for him.

Ladd is untouchable IMO.

 

[allan5oh]

It's not that all that can't work, it's that it all has to work together or it makes us worse IMO.

Agreed

Can the Jets get B Schenn and Simmonds for Buff? If not (and a comparable deal can't be found with another team) the whole thing doesn't work. Can the Jets get Maata or Despres + Sutter etc for Wheeler? Because I don't see the Jets moving Kane or Ladd, regardless of our lack of RW depth.

I'm sure Chevy has received multiple phone calls regarding Buff ever since he signed Trouba. Apparently he received lots of interest for Postma before he was injured. He knows what Buff can get, and who is interested. Offensive D-men are always in demand.

At the very least, Chevy couldn't move one of those three without first moving Buff (for the replacement forward(s)), and signing one or both of Seto and Jokinen.

I'm not sure if the order matters, but I understand your concern. At least you're taking the time to understand where I coming from. There's lots of moving parts to something like this, but we could really set up the franchise for the future if Shero gets desperate and overpays. I wouldn't even consider trading one of our 3 wingers without overpayment.

Yes there are 29 other teams interested in our top 3 wingers, but is there any other team with as much young LHD talent as the Pens? Of those comparable teams, are there any that are contenders and desperate for a top 6 winger? The Pens are a target because of these reasons. If they had mostly RHD talent, this thread wouldn't exist.

 

[jetkarma*]

Thought the article was pretty generic and didn't over speculate or insinuate that anything was imminent . More connecting the dots , and putting out a scenario or two.

 

[allan5oh]

Once it is likely, then you move roster pieces out that are expiring assets that have some value to other teams - Seto, Olli, Stuart. Sure, you only get picks back likely but that's ok - that could be three second rounders right there and possibly a third thrown in, like the Oduya trade brought?

That's a good point. Moving one of our top 3 wingers probably precludes us from selling the above players. It all depends if they want to re-sign or not(except maybe Stuart). Frolik to me is definitely a 2nd line winger right now and seems to be actually improving. To me our top 6 is actually very good, much better than the beginning of this season or any season prior to that.

 

[ihadtochangethename]

Just a personal philosophy, but I believe in getting as many high draft picks as possible. I'd trade Wheeler for 2014 and 2015 1st round picks. 2015 is key because the Pens have shown the kind of luck they have at finding generational talents like McDavid in the draft. LOL! Maataa and a 2015 1st rounder would be good too.

The Blackhawks are showing how having d-man depth helps. Morrissey/Maataa/Trouba/Bogosian would be a heck of a long-term top 4.

I'd be open to trading Kane too. Would like to see what kind of proposals would come Chevy's way for him.

Ladd is untouchable IMO.

no one is untouchable. that is all

 

[jetkarma*]

That's a good point. Moving one of our top 3 wingers probably precludes us from selling the above players. It all depends if they want to re-sign or not(except maybe Stuart). Frolik to me is definitely a 2nd line winger right now and seems to be actually improving. To me our top 6 is actually very good, much better than the beginning of this season or any season prior to that.

I agree re the top 6 , don't see a reason to not be comfortable if we went ahead with the 6 we currently have at all.

For me, if anything resembling this scenario unfolds it will be because the other organization wants a certain player badly and will pay a steep price. Not sure IF that happens , but I only see it happening if it does.

 

[mzappa]

If Maata is negotiable, I hope Chevy can make something happen.

 

[Savagestevo]

I would be so mad if the Jets gift wrapped Evander Kane to the Pittsburgh Penguins.

 

[powder88]

Ohh ********. Our depth on the blue-line is much deeper than quality forwards.

We don't need to start selling the farm because the team is at .500, like I said the Pens will have to pay top dollar for our players just like every other team in the league should have to. Seto for a 2nd was a good pickup, considering the 2014 draft is weak I would say we got a good deal on that front. You may not like Seto, you're entitled to your opinion, however he is a good filler.

I have no idea how you are able to claim that I don't like Seto. All I said was that he was a rental player that cost us a 2nd rounder. That's hardly an opinion; it's fact. I also didn't say we needed to sell the farm. You seem to be making things up out of thin air...are you my wife?