Confirmed with Link: Penguins Agree To Terms With Matt Cullen (1 year | $800k)

[Ogrezilla]

The 'toughest' group on this list lost in the first round. The least tough won it all.

to be fair, the toughest didn't have Sid or Geno

 

[clefty]

to be fair, the toughest didn't have Sid or Geno

Exactly. Tells you where this teams fate is tied; to the health and performance of our best players, not on someone wrestling with and punching some other dude in the helmet.

 

[Pancakes]

Both of those cup run teams had terrible scoring depth. It's a miracle we made the finals with the "depth" we had.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Both of those cup run teams had terrible scoring depth. It's a miracle we made the finals with the "depth" we had.

Sid and geno at the top of their game at the same time is magical. That third line was great too.

 

[Pete Gas]

I still think that Hossa giving the middle finger to the team helped motivate them win the cup in 09'

 

[Pancakes]

Sid and geno at the top of their game at the same time is magical. That third line was great too.

It was magical but also not because it gave management the mistaken impression that Sid and Geno could do more with less when in reality that's the case only rarely.

The third line was pretty great though

 

[Coach Travis]

07/08:
Laraque
Ruutu
Roberts
Malone
Talbot

08/09:
Godard
Cooke
Gill
Guerin
Talbot

09/10
Godard
Rupp
Engelland
Cooke
Talbot

10/11
Godard
Rupp
Engelland
Asham
Cooke
Talbot

Plus those years we had Orpik in his prime.

To compare any of those teams physicality to the current roster is laughable.

Yeah, you're pretty much ****ting on your own point with this post.

 

[Coach Travis]

Both of those cup run teams had terrible scoring depth. It's a miracle we made the finals with the "depth" we had.

It was kind of a weird time in the East. No one else was "that good". Philly had Mike Richards and Jeff Carter. Rangers had Jagr, Shanahan and Drury. The Caps were like the only other good team in the East and then the Red Wings were a juggernaut who I'm still kind of surprised that we beat.

 

[clefty]

Not enough credit has ever been given to that deep defense. Kris Letang was our fifth defenseman playing 20 minutes a game for Christs sake.

Washington had John Erskine and Tom Poti in their top four.

 

[EVGENIMERLIN]

It was kind of a weird time in the East. No one else was "that good". Philly had Mike Richards and Jeff Carter. Rangers had Jagr, Shanahan and Drury. The Caps were like the only other good team in the East and then the Red Wings were a juggernaut who I'm still kind of surprised that we beat.

This is what I was going to post so I will just add to it. 07-09 was a transitional time for the NHL. Not that far removed from a lockout season, changes in the game to open it up more/creating more scoring, and an influx of generational talent that was young an inexperienced. Guys from the vaunted '03 draft were just starting to hit their stride.

The Wings were a beast, but think of all the other teams Chicago, LA, Boston, Caps, Isles, Tampa, STL etc. they were just starting to put together decent, young teams.

It was a perfect storm for the Penguins, they had the best of the young talent and they beat the other young talented teams in the East.

 

[Burgs]

Those late 2000s teams had less skill depth than our current team but they had the kind of swagger good teams have. They would initiate and instigate, they could run people over and back it up with the gloves off, too. And they had opponents worried about more than just getting scored on. Scary Gary beating the **** out of Eager, Kunitz nailing Timonen into the end boards again and again, Talbot losing a fight but firing up his teammates with the "Shhh" gesture, Orpik blowing up people, Ruutu and Cooke hitting everything in sight, Laraque playing regular 4th line mins and trolling Cryers fans. All of that is infectious and you could see everyone on those teams bought into it. Those were guys that were both able and willing to go to battle, and not just against Philly.

Even disregarding playoff results it was something that made those Pens teams very likeable and easy to root for. I've been really missing this attitude for a few years now. We should push back in that direction a little but the roster just hasn't been built for it. Our current team will be better at puck possession but IMO they have nowhere near enough aggression. And simply hoping for powerplays isn't a good strategy in this day and age of refereeing.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Those late 2000s teams had less skill depth than our current team but they had the kind of swagger good teams have. They would initiate and instigate, they could run people over and back it up with the gloves off, too. And they had opponents worried about more than just getting scored on. Scary Gary beating the **** out of Eager, Kunitz nailing Timonen into the end boards again and again, Talbot losing a fight but firing up his teammates with the "Shhh" gesture, Orpik blowing up people, Ruutu and Cooke hitting everything in sight, Laraque playing regular 4th line mins and trolling Cryers fans. All of that is infectious and you could see everyone on those teams bought into it. Those were guys that were both able and willing to go to battle, and not just against Philly.

Even disregarding playoff results it was something that made those Pens teams very likeable and easy to root for. I've been really missing this attitude for a few years now. We should push back in that direction a little but the roster just hasn't been built for it. Our current team will be better at puck possession but IMO they have nowhere near enough aggression. And simply hoping for powerplays isn't a good strategy in this day and age of refereeing.

Really good post. We have been far too easy to play against for way too long. I think that's a big reason so many people have a cult-like adoration for guys like Vitale, Farnham, etc. They're tenacious, hungry, and they're tough to play against.

We haven't forechecked with any ferocity in like half a decade. When's the last time we had a guy hounding defenseman, driving them into the third row whenever they touched the puck? When's the last time we forced opponents into bad decisions with the puck because of pursuit and hitting?

We've made things way too hard for ourselves recently. We don't need any Godards or MacIntyre's, we need guys like the old Cooke, the old Kunitz, Clutterbuck... Hell, like half of the Blue Jackets team plays the way we need guys to.

 

[cygnus47]

Those late 2000s teams had less skill depth than our current team but they had the kind of swagger good teams have. They would initiate and instigate, they could run people over and back it up with the gloves off, too. And they had opponents worried about more than just getting scored on. Scary Gary beating the **** out of Eager, Kunitz nailing Timonen into the end boards again and again, Talbot losing a fight but firing up his teammates with the "Shhh" gesture, Orpik blowing up people, Ruutu and Cooke hitting everything in sight, Laraque playing regular 4th line mins and trolling Cryers fans. All of that is infectious and you could see everyone on those teams bought into it. Those were guys that were both able and willing to go to battle, and not just against Philly.

Even disregarding playoff results it was something that made those Pens teams very likeable and easy to root for. I've been really missing this attitude for a few years now. We should push back in that direction a little but the roster just hasn't been built for it. Our current team will be better at puck possession but IMO they have nowhere near enough aggression. And simply hoping for powerplays isn't a good strategy in this day and age of refereeing.

The team that won in 09 wasn't quite as badass, but they definitely had that swagger. They had a very strong identity too: be faster and tougher than anyone else, grind their D into the walls, cycle the puck, go to the net and dominate the PP. The team was almost entirely the same kind of player with a couple of exceptions, everyone was strong on the boards and everyone trusted each other. We would wear teams out in the first two games and dominate the rest of the series. That's the thing we've lacked since 2011. If we had that attitude in 2012 we crush the Flyers in 5 max and probably make it to the Final. Hell, if we had that attitude for the entirety of the 2013 playoffs and Bylsma wasn't so against skilled players playing in logical positions we probably make the Final again too.

I don't know what it would take but we need the same togetherness.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

I was like what thread I am. Lol.

Are team is team softie.

I don't see us playing in a series like that Jets and Ducks series.

We are just going to ba e to find a way around are lack of physicality

 

[Ogrezilla]

I was like what thread I am. Lol.

Are team is team softie.

I don't see us playing in a series like that Jets and Ducks series.

We are just going to ba e to find a way around are lack of physicality

are we less physical than Chicago? No, we're not. Apparently, its something that can be worked around just fine.

 

[Shady Machine]

It's a mentality more than it is WHO is on the team. That '08-'09 team did have "swagger" but it wasn't because they were huge and tough. They just played with heart and passion. And they played like a team. This team can play like that if they come together.

Some young blood with size in Plots and Sundqvist. A crazy ******* in Farnham. Hornqvist may not be traditionally tough, but he will do whatever it takes to win. Dupuis will literally die to play hockey. Maybe Kunitz can get some desire back.

I think actual competition of talented forwards will help bring this team together. If you want real ice time, you have to play your ass off. That will only work if the coach is willing to bench anyone that is lazy, but at least they have enough talented hockey players to move into the lineup as opposed to the Adams and Glasses of the world.

 

[Terrapin]

If Talbot and Gill count as tough, so do Sundqvist, Plotnikov, Cole and Dumoulin. And in all that time, Godard played exactly 0 minutes of playoff time for us. Laraque was only tough if someone signed off on his gentleman's agreement to fight; he was useless as a real enforcer.

We're missing a guy like Orpik, sure. I'm not too worried about that. I'm more worried about dealing with guys in the crease, which isn't something Orpik was ever especially good at. I'm sure Cole and Dumoulin can do as well as he did at that. I'm fine with less big open ice hits from D if it means we have smarter players who are better with the puck.

We don't have a real agitator like Cooke or Ruutu. Can't argue that. I'm also not sure if that bothers me. I'd be happy to see Farnham get some games if we think we need a guy to do that.

Asham was fine, but I'd rather have Plotnikov or Sundqvist. They'll fight less, but they're almost certainly going to be better hockey players.

You make it seem like we have a team full of guys who will avoid checks like the plague, play on the perimeter, avoid the boards and never crash the net. Its simply not the case. Bonino and Kessel are soft. That's it for forwards. Not many guys are overtly aggressive in terms of hits, but they will all get their noses dirty on the walls and in the crease. On D, Lovejoy and Maatta are on the softer end. Pouliot needs to add size, but he doesn't play soft.

You keep bringing up Sundqvist. He probably won't even be on the team barring injuries (so yeah, he probably will play a lot).

Guys like Talbot, Orpik, Cooke, hell even Colby Armstrong weren't tough in the fighting sense, but they were tough to play against because teams needed to have their heads on a swivel when any of these guys were on the ice.

 

[Shady Machine]

You keep bringing up Sundqvist. He probably won't even be on the team barring injuries (so yeah, he probably will play a lot).

Guys like Talbot, Orpik, Cooke, hell even Colby Armstrong weren't tough in the fighting sense, but they were tough to play against because teams needed to have their heads on a swivel when any of these guys were on the ice.

Armstrong was on the '08 team, not the Cup winning team. Look, you have some valid points here, but of all of the Pens "tough" teams during that era, the one that won the Cup was the least tough of the bunch. As I said earlier, it's about a mentality more than who is on the roster (unless you build your team to be a big, heavy, tough team). You have to have everyone buy in and play the same way. That's as much a coaching issue as it is a roster construction issue.

Let's give this roster 30 games or so before we fully judge if they are tough enough.

 

[Terrapin]

Armstrong was on the '08 team, not the Cup winning team. Look, you have some valid points here, but of all of the Pens "tough" teams during that era, the one that won the Cup was the least tough of the bunch. As I said earlier, it's about a mentality more than who is on the roster (unless you build your team to be a big, heavy, tough team). You have to have everyone buy in and play the same way. That's as much a coaching issue as it is a roster construction issue.

Let's give this roster 30 games or so before we fully judge if they are tough enough.

I agree that playing 'tough' as a team is much more important than having one designated useless goon.

 

[PensBandwagonerNo272*]

I actually love this signing. Cullen is a good faceoff guy at worst. Might end up being a huge bargain 3C.

 

[MurphyDump]

I actually love this signing. Cullen is a good faceoff guy at worst. Might end up being a huge bargain 3C.

Not with Bonino and Fehr here.

 

[Zen Arcade]

Burgs nailed exactly how I feel about the situation.

 

[MurphyDump]

You keep bringing up Sundqvist. He probably won't even be on the team barring injuries (so yeah, he probably will play a lot).

Guys like Talbot, Orpik, Cooke, hell even Colby Armstrong weren't tough in the fighting sense, but they were tough to play against because teams needed to have their heads on a swivel when any of these guys were on the ice.

You're right in the aspect that teams needed to have their heads on a swivel, but really, who did Chicago and Tampa have that kept teams on their toes out there?

Bickell? Callahan?

Boyle and Morrow were too slow to really line anyone up.

There weren't a lot of huge hits or anything in the finals, it was just a fast puck possession game with great transition.

 

[PensBandwagonerNo272*]

Not with Bonino and Fehr here.

This is probably true unless Bonino plays top 6 winger minutes. Fehr or Cullen at 3C, I'm not sure which I'd prefer. Probably Fehr on Cullen's wing honestly.

Too soon to say how things will shape out.

 

[mpp9]

Cullen's better suited to be an X factor on your 4th line. He still has wheels and some skill to burn a team occasionally. He's just not a guy who should be your 3C at this point if you plan on being a good team.