Speculation: Penalty Kill Discussion

[surixon]

Yea I meant to use the sarcasm GIF but forgot.

honestly I don’t think there much to discuss on the PP or PK. On The PK we needs to be less passive. Hopefully with DeMelo and a Samberg Lowry Copp Apples and Harkins we can do better.

Coaches need to redesign around More pressure.

That they do, whatever system they do run they need not to collapse as quickly.

 

[Ducky10]

Crickets eh?

All our brilliant Board micro managers obsess about the PP but seem to have no passion for the equally important PK??

I guess if your pet players can’t pad their Scoring stats who cares about goals against??

I have PTSD from watching the Jets PK. Reading this thread is causing enough anxiety, let alone trying to comment on it.

 

[ps241]

I thoroughly enjoyed your well thought out solutions to the PK you posted before this little flame war attempt.

@surixon already posted the correct answer. Burn it to the ground.

Hey I appreciate you dropping by and chirping back. I think I did add an idea or two but it’s easy to miss it in this massive thread.

 

[ps241]

I have PTSD from watching the Jets PK. Reading this thread is causing enough anxiety, let alone trying to comment on it.

All good

I enjoyed our team taking less penalties last season. That’s a start.

 

[voyageur]

Well you`ve thrown out the challenge (even if sarcastically) and I can try to get the conversation going. As with the PP though, most posters do not really want to have a conversation around "alternative systems" or "alternative coaching philosophies". There are fundamentally three differing "systems" for the PK - the Diamond, the Box ,and the Wedge+1. You can probably visualize the first 2; the 3rd is a variation where there are 3 collapsing players at netfront, with one speeding around following the puck in an effort to create havoc on the perimeter. The objective is not so much to actually create turnovers but more to disrupt the other team from setting up. The coaching philosophy affects how the Diamond and/or the Box actually work, with some coach`s advocating an early collapse while others advocate less collapsing and more aggressive attack of the high shooters. With Maurice being an ultra conservative coach and advocating conservative 5v5 play, it should be no surprise that he advocates a conservative approach to the PK. My eyes suggest that the Jets have tried both the Diamond and the Box, both with an early collapse into the slot quickly giving up the blueline. Seems like the objective is to of course keep the puck carrier outside and to use active sticks to cutoff passing lanes into the slot area or netfront. Maurice has even opined that the objective is to keep shots coming from predictible locations, where Helly can more readily handle them. My feeling is that the sophisticated PP options available now will feast on passive PK systems such as ours, especially when they game prep knowing what we`ll do every single time in advance.

That's such an easy thing to say, but somehow we were #1 in February. Can't be all Helly?

We should predictably win a lot of faceoffs to start, which is good for a zone clear, and at least 10-20 seconds to reset. Team generally likes to stand up on the blue line, 3 wide, forcing the chip ins. Or with good sticks and position, forcing teams back. Everyone agrees about the passive nature of the PK inside the zone. And it seems that we prefer to give up predictable shots, which are easy for a goalie to a read, positionally. In the playins we were actually burnt quite a bit being too aggressive and leaving the slot open. So it's a balance. If you are going to outnumber the puck shorthanded, you had better win it, or there is danger everywhere.

Last year we had so much new personnel, that had no experience whatsoever playing with other players, that it took some time. De Melo really stabilized things on the back end. Poolman's speed should be an asset in puck retrieval. Beaulieu is a guy that gets beaten quite a bit getting back to the front the net, I don't know how much of that is his skating, or his reads. We have some defensive depth this year, probably as good as any team.

Forward wise we have added some depth too. And both Gustafsson and Suess could step up during the year.

If we get to the top 10 again, we're a definite playoff team, as our PP shouldn't get worse.

Is the PK coached by Maurice? I thought the assistants usually run those things?

 

[ecolad]

That's such an easy thing to say, but somehow we were #1 in February. Can't be all Helly?

We should predictably win a lot of faceoffs to start, which is good for a zone clear, and at least 10-20 seconds to reset. Team generally likes to stand up on the blue line, 3 wide, forcing the chip ins. Or with good sticks and position, forcing teams back. Everyone agrees about the passive nature of the PK inside the zone. And it seems that we prefer to give up predictable shots, which are easy for a goalie to a read, positionally. In the playins we were actually burnt quite a bit being too aggressive and leaving the slot open. So it's a balance. If you are going to outnumber the puck shorthanded, you had better win it, or there is danger everywhere.

Last year we had so much new personnel, that had no experience whatsoever playing with other players, that it took some time. De Melo really stabilized things on the back end. Poolman's speed should be an asset in puck retrieval. Beaulieu is a guy that gets beaten quite a bit getting back to the front the net, I don't know how much of that is his skating, or his reads. We have some defensive depth this year, probably as good as any team.

Forward wise we have added some depth too. And both Gustafsson and Suess could step up during the year.

If we get to the top 10 again, we're a definite playoff team, as our PP shouldn't get worse.

Is the PK coached by Maurice? I thought the assistants usually run those things?

You`ll notice that I never commented at all about personnel. Would you accept that the type of personnel needed varies considerably with the system and strategy favored by the coach? There is an awful lot of nuanced discussion possible here, but the players must not only be in the right positions to block players and pucks from the netfront - they have to know what routes to take to get into position and what to actually do when they get there.The more aggressive the coach wants to be, the more he needs players who can read/react to what is happening around them and make quick speedy adjustments. You keep focussing on the role played by the 2 D on the PK - I would invite you to focus on what the 2 forwards who play at the top of the Box , or the Diamond are doing. For the most part the 2 D have very defineable roles, boxing out the netfront and/or tying up attackers bodily or especially their sticks. They also have to have the ability to keep their head on a swivel and be alert to plays from the weak side. In my opinion, the 2 forwards , following Maurice`s chosen strategy, are collapsing too quickly and are too static,
( hey, where have we heard that word used before- PP maybe?)

 

[voyageur]

You`ll notice that I never commented at all about personnel. Would you accept that the type of personnel needed varies considerably with the system and strategy favored by the coach? There is an awful lot of nuanced discussion possible here, but the players must not only be in the right positions to block players and pucks from the netfront - they have to know what routes to take to get into position and what to actually do when they get there.The more aggressive the coach wants to be, the more he needs players who can read/react to what is happening around them and make quick speedy adjustments. You keep focussing on the role played by the 2 D on the PK - I would invite you to focus on what the 2 forwards who play at the top of the Box , or the Diamond are doing. For the most part the 2 D have very defineable roles, boxing out the netfront and/or tying up attackers bodily or especially their sticks. They also have to have the ability to keep their head on a swivel and be alert to plays from the weak side. In my opinion, the 2 forwards , following Maurice`s chosen strategy, are collapsing too quickly and are too static,
( hey, where have we heard that word used before- PP maybe?)

Thanks for the explanation. The forward deployment is confusing for sure. At times you will see Lowry and Copp covering virtually the same space, the inside of the box. Everything is usually filtered outside to angled shots. I'm not a PK expert, though it was my favourite role playing hockey. I think the emphasis should be on speed, up front, and we seem to be moving that way, with players like Appleton. Poolman and Morrissey add defensive speed for being quick on puck retrieval. Speed creates more up ice pressure/disruption, and if you are going to give up the shots from the angles, you have to be fast to the boards.

Is Maurice the coach of our PK? I know a lot of other teams deploy their assistants in that role. Coach is usually the manager of personnel, but not systems?

 

[ecolad]

Thanks for the explanation. The forward deployment is confusing for sure. At times you will see Lowry and Copp covering virtually the same space, the inside of the box. Everything is usually filtered outside to angled shots. I'm not a PK expert, though it was my favourite role playing hockey. I think the emphasis should be on speed, up front, and we seem to be moving that way. It creates more up ice pressure, and if you are going to give up the shots from the angles, you have to be fast to the boards.

Is Maurice the coach of our PK? I know a lot of other teams deploy their assistants in that role. Coach is usually the manager of personnel, but not systems?

Not in a position to answer that with certainty. I believe Compon has the responsibility for special teams but also believe that Maurice tends to micro -manage and may over ride decisions. We often discuss how there was a noticeable positive change in special team play when Maurice was at the World Cup as guest coach, and how such changes were erased as soon as he returned.

 

[surixon]

Not in a position to answer that with certainty. I believe Compon has the responsibility for special teams but also believe that Maurice tends to micro -manage and may over ride decisions. We often discuss how there was a noticeable positive change in special team play when Maurice was at the World Cup as guest coach, and how such changes were erased as soon as he returned.

The PK has been awful since he got here. Even if he isnt directly responsible for the tactics if the assistant isnt getting it done then he needs to assign it to a different assistant or bring someone in who can run an effective scheme.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Yea I meant to use the sarcasm GIF but forgot.

honestly I don’t think there much to discuss on the PP or PK. On The PK we needs to be less passive. Hopefully with DeMelo and a Samberg Lowry Copp Apples and Harkins we can do better.

Coaches need to redesign around More pressure.

More pressure applies to both special teams.

 

[Hunter368]

I hope we see a more agressive PK this year, high pressure PK. Mistakes will happen, get out of position trying to pressure.......but hopefully we do more good then bad.

 

[surixon]

I hope we see a more agressive PK this year, high pressure PK. Mistakes will happen, get out of position trying to pressure.......but hopefully we do more good then bad.

That is exactly what I would also like to see. It seems to me that we seem far too comfortable allowing teams to get set up on their PP without much issue. We have quick forwards so it is time we use that quickness to cause issues for other teams trying to get set up. A PP can't hurt you if they can't get set up.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

That is exactly what I would also like to see. It seems to me that we seem far too comfortable allowing teams to get set up on their PP without much issue. We have quick forwards so it is time we use that quickness to cause issues for other teams trying to get set up. A PP can't hurt you if they can't get set up.

As demonstrated by our PP.

 

[GumbyCan2]

That's such an easy thing to say, but somehow we were #1 in February. Can't be all Helly?

We should predictably win a lot of faceoffs to start, which is good for a zone clear, and at least 10-20 seconds to reset. Team generally likes to stand up on the blue line, 3 wide, forcing the chip ins. Or with good sticks and position, forcing teams back. Everyone agrees about the passive nature of the PK inside the zone. And it seems that we prefer to give up predictable shots, which are easy for a goalie to a read, positionally. In the playins we were actually burnt quite a bit being too aggressive and leaving the slot open. So it's a balance. If you are going to outnumber the puck shorthanded, you had better win it, or there is danger everywhere.

Last year we had so much new personnel, that had no experience whatsoever playing with other players, that it took some time. De Melo really stabilized things on the back end. Poolman's speed should be an asset in puck retrieval. Beaulieu is a guy that gets beaten quite a bit getting back to the front the net, I don't know how much of that is his skating, or his reads. We have some defensive depth this year, probably as good as any team.

Forward wise we have added some depth too. And both Gustafsson and Suess could step up during the year.

If we get to the top 10 again, we're a definite playoff team, as our PP shouldn't get worse.

Is the PK coached by Maurice? I thought the assistants usually run those things?

They many times "run the chalk-board show &tell" to the players on the ice, but I bet its Maurice's genious relayed through "the other messengers". Practises I have ever had the pleasure to watch over parts of 5 years under Maurice, he is in charge of the drills.

 

[10Ducky10]

Having DeMelo for a full season and Slamberg eventually playing PK1 should help a lot.

 

[surixon]

They many times "run the chalk-board show &tell" to the players on the ice, but I bet its Maurice's genious relayed through "the other messengers". Practises I have ever had the pleasure to watch over parts of 5 years under Maurice, he is in charge of the drills.

That is correct. He is in charge and he is the one who stops the drill when things don't go his way. The assistants are more support pieces that help explain.

 

[GumbyCan2]

Not in a position to answer that with certainty. I believe Compon has the responsibility for special teams but also believe that Maurice tends to micro -manage and may over ride decisions. We often discuss how there was a noticeable positive change in special team play when Maurice was at the World Cup as guest coach, and how such changes were erased as soon as he returned.

Interesting point. Wonder which other areas this roster improves on if Maurice is removed for a while again?
How can we convince Chevy to try this? Send Maurice on a free paid vacation right at start of next season?

 

[DRW204]

gonna bump this old ass thread

but can we just recognize how much better the PK has been under bowness? i think much can be attributed to a new system and staff.

PK:
3rd best in GA/60
6th best in xGA/60
4th best in SA/60
9th least in PK TOI/gp


just gonna add last season to the post below from Gm0ney

21-22 on the PK:

27th best in GA/60
32nd best in xGA/60
29th best in SA/60
15th least in PK TOI/gp

	2017-18	2018-19	2019-20
Team PK%	81.8% (9th)	79.2 % (22nd)	77.6% (22nd)
Team PK SV%	.8975 (5th)	.8744 (7th)	.8582 (20th)
SA/60	64.72 (3rd)	59.05 (5th)	58.67 (4th)
xGA/60	7.98 (3rd)	7.03 (8th)	7.28 (3rd)
HDCA/60	21.62 (14th)	21.25 (11th)	22.47 (7th)

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

For all the /60's stats, a higher rank is worse - so over the last 3 seasons the Jets have given up the 3rd, 5th and 4th most shots per 60 on the PK. 3rd, 8th and 3rd most expected goals against per 60. The plan to allow lots of shots but limit HDCA has been slipping. The Jets took the 2nd fewest penalties last season after taking the 8th and 11th most penalties the two seasons prior, so that helped limit the number of PK goals against, anyway...

 

[surixon]

gonna bump this old ass thread

but can we just recognize how much better the PK has been under bowness? i think much can be attributed to a new system and staff.

PK:
3rd best in GA/60
6th best in xGA/60
4th best in SA/60
9th least in PK TOI/gp


just gonna add last season to the post below from Gm0ney

21-22 on the PK:

27th best in GA/60
32nd best in xGA/60
29th best in SA/60
15th least in PK TOI/gp

Arniel deserves some major props for this. He's done this across multiple orgs now. I am also liking Lauer's performance with the PP. Our special teams are much better this year.

 

[SUX2BU]

It’s being very solid
Reminds me of the 2017-18 year

 

[Zhamnov5GoalGame]

I like that the Jets do play it aggressive depending on where the puck is and what’s going on. Under Mo’s regime they were so passive and static that the other team could totally fumble a pass but were rarely challenged for that loose puck.

 

[ps241]

gonna bump this old ass thread

but can we just recognize how much better the PK has been under bowness? i think much can be attributed to a new system and staff.

PK:
3rd best in GA/60
6th best in xGA/60
4th best in SA/60
9th least in PK TOI/gp


just gonna add last season to the post below from Gm0ney

21-22 on the PK:

27th best in GA/60
32nd best in xGA/60
29th best in SA/60
15th least in PK TOI/gp

Arniel deserves some major props for this. He's done this across multiple orgs now. I am also liking Lauer's performance with the PP. Our special teams are much better this year.

So true guys. This is one of the major turn arounds of this team under the new coaching staff. Not nearly enough love for the “most important” of the two special teams.