PC Building Guide and Discussion #11 (everything is expensive...)

[Individual 1]

Just curious what month between now and august would be the best time to purchase? Anyone know generally when good sales start for certain parts with new gen stuff coming out in the future?

Most good sales are pretty random, you should be able to get a good deal on basically everything you need over a period of 2 months.

https://www.reddit.com/r/bapcsalescanada/new/

Also check Neweggs 3 unique daily deal thing everyday.

 

[Kestrel]

Here's another Ryzen review, with this one being more for the budget minded, as it's on the R5 1400:

http://www.techspot.com/review/1386-amd-ryzen-5-1400/

Wrapping this up, I think the Ryzen 5 1400 is a smart choice for gamers and enthusiasts who are on a budget or simply don't need the best of the best. It should have you well covered for the time being and since AMD's AM4 platform is expected to remain relevant through 2020, it should be painless to install a new processor when the time comes.

 

[Kestrel]

I've got a friend wanting me to do a build for her, but the budget is limited - 800 to 1000 CDN, including the monitor. Sooo my big question is this:

Intel on-board video, for photo editing in Photoshop - I assume it's well up to the task? If so, as much as I'd love to do an AMD build, I'm thinking a Kaby Lake i3 is probably the way to go? For photo editing, I'd like to move her up to at least a 1080p 27" IPS monitor, without breaking the bank, and while the i3 is otherwise pretty weak compared to the R5 processors, not having to spend on a video card definitely saves some money.

 

[SeidoN]

I hear Prey works great on PC. I was skeptical with the omission of a PC demo but im glad Arkane ditched that ****** engine they used for Dishonored 2. I actually wish they would go back and post DH2 to CryEngine

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

Not only running great since it's on CryEngine instead of the ****** engine DH2 had (love that game though), but it's getting really good reviews to boot. I got it for $45 after hearing about the performance and people playing it early. Can't wait to play it this weekend .

If they did a full conversion of DH2 to CryEngine, you bet your ass I'd play it more.

 

[SniperHF]

Short review: Roccat Kone EMP mouse

I'm replacing an old Logitech G5 which I consider the apex of fingertip mice shape wise. Unfortunately the sensor in mine is going bonkers so it had to go. The Roccat EMP feels pretty good with a fingertip grip but lacks for one big thing in that it doesn't have a molded position for your pinky/ring finger. It doesn't seem to have much negative effect yet but I'm also not one to actually lift off the mouse much. Would also be better if it were just a little more narrow. The weight is just about perfect which I was a little worried about since it's not adjustable.

Quite impressed with the software, it's very easy to use and doesn't have some bombastic skin like people love putting on their software these days. Doesn't have an obnoxious auto update system. Apparently older versions had weird achievements and sounds that were enabled by default but now those are off by default. The one thing I don't like is some of the more unique features of the software like hit tracking are only available if you use an app on your phone, there's no desktop equivalent.

And one other sort of minor problem is the light settings give you the illusion of a great deal of control on how the lights look with different patterns and such but in reality most don't work in combination and the software doesn't tell you that. So you flip the switches and nothing happens.

I haven't played much with it yet, just a few bot matches in UT2k4. It's really easy to set a key so you can adjust DPI between two settings without cycling through all of them so that's nice. Like say when looking through a scope vs ADS vs hip fire.

I've got a friend wanting me to do a build for her, but the budget is limited - 800 to 1000 CDN, including the monitor. Sooo my big question is this:

Intel on-board video, for photo editing in Photoshop - I assume it's well up to the task? If so, as much as I'd love to do an AMD build, I'm thinking a Kaby Lake i3 is probably the way to go? For photo editing, I'd like to move her up to at least a 1080p 27" IPS monitor, without breaking the bank, and while the i3 is otherwise pretty weak compared to the R5 processors, not having to spend on a video card definitely saves some money.

I'm not super familiar with photoshop but I don't recall it being all that intensive. With enough RAM it should be fine with the i3 IGP.

 

[Kestrel]

I'm not super familiar with photoshop but I don't recall it being all that intensive. With enough RAM it should be fine with the i3 IGP.

Thanks for the response... I'd love go go R5 with her build, but it just doesn't really fit the budget... at least not without sacrificing other more important things.

 

[Commander Clueless]

Thanks for the response... I'd love go go R5 with her build, but it just doesn't really fit the budget... at least not without sacrificing other more important things.

If she can wait until late 2017, you could build a Ryzen APU system

 

[Kestrel]

If she can wait until late 2017, you could build a Ryzen APU system

I thought about that... but I think it's one of those "I've been waiting for the money - let's spend it now before my husband makes it disappear" things.

 

[Devourers]

I've got a friend wanting me to do a build for her, but the budget is limited - 800 to 1000 CDN, including the monitor. Sooo my big question is this:

Intel on-board video, for photo editing in Photoshop - I assume it's well up to the task? If so, as much as I'd love to do an AMD build, I'm thinking a Kaby Lake i3 is probably the way to go? For photo editing, I'd like to move her up to at least a 1080p 27" IPS monitor, without breaking the bank, and while the i3 is otherwise pretty weak compared to the R5 processors, not having to spend on a video card definitely saves some money.

You can do R5 for under 1k but not with a monitor. You could probably do it with a 21.5" 1080p monitor for a hair over 1k though. With 27" more in the 1100~ area.

With the i3 you don't need a GPU, with the R5 you do, that's the reason why I figure it puts it out of her price range no?

Just a shame IMO because instead of a 800-1000 budget, I think maybe 1100-1200 could build her a much better PC with the monitor. With 1000 though, you should be able to get a decent build since it doesn't need a GPU, with a decent SSD, etc.

 

[SniperHF]

Could always toss in an i5 + GPU later. Resale on Intel chips is solid so moving the i3 wouldn't be hard if you had no other use for it.

 

[Kestrel]

You can do R5 for under 1k but not with a monitor. You could probably do it with a 21.5" 1080p monitor for a hair over 1k though. With 27" more in the 1100~ area.

With the i3 you don't need a GPU, with the R5 you do, that's the reason why I figure it puts it out of her price range no?

Just a shame IMO because instead of a 800-1000 budget, I think maybe 1100-1200 could build her a much better PC with the monitor. With 1000 though, you should be able to get a decent build since it doesn't need a GPU, with a decent SSD, etc.

Yeah, I may talk to her about her budget... but I don't think she'll ever be a demanding user, so the i3 will probably do the job just fine. I confirmed that this computer won't ever be used for gaming - I suspect it may get used for media, but that doesn't take much horsepower either.

 

[guinness]

Photoshop shouldn't be all that demanding on a GPU; I run PS Elements, Lightroom, and Affinity just fine on my laptop, and the Kaby Lake iGPU's are fairly decent (I can play Skyrim at 720p with some of the effects bumped to medium).

I'd expect a desktop sample to be slightly better, as it doesn't have the same thermal and power constraints. Although, damn, Canadian prices are high.

Here, I could build a monitor bundle with this, add a dGPU, and still have a few dollars left over at $1000 (and that's with Best Buy's markup, although they will price match newegg and amazon):
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/dell-in...-1tb-hard-drive-black/5775305.p?skuId=5775305
+
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/xfx-har...h-white-led-backlight/5549800.p?skuId=5549800

 

[Kestrel]

Thanks for the responses guys... and yeah, Canadian prices are horrible. I think I'll explain to her the ramifications of investing a little more into getting a better processor and video card, but ultimately, I think I'll recommend the i3 as being the financially better route for her to go based on her situation, and as Sniper mentioned, it doesn't stop her from upgrading the CPU and video card. If a Ryzen APU had been available, that probably would have been the way I'd go.

 

[Puck]

I looked at that Best Buy PC and it seems like it does not have an OEM Windows OS with it? Wouldn't that be an extra 100$ to get that separate unless you put Linux on it (staying legal)? Wal-Mart also sells a decent Lenovo with Windows at that price. You can do even better on a personal build I suppose if someone like Kestrel does it for free. At least that way you could put in a decent power supply to add a video card later.

She could save money with open source software and that's easy for media purposes. They sell even cheaper Android boxes that work fine for media. If she insists on Photoshop though, I think older versions of the Adobe software work in PlayonLinux but usually the latest versions 9and current subscription version) might still be buggy (until they fine tune the emulation). I understand Netflix now works with Firefox on Linux and she would be fine with Kodi with those barebone specs. Same goes for Libre Office. Linux Mint Cinnamon looks a lot like Windows OS and the learning curve would be minimal. Apple still does not support iTunes in Linux though. There are alternatives there though. Someone that strapped for cash though might still find it difficult staying legal with Photoshop.

 

[Kestrel]

I looked at that Best Buy PC and it seems like it does not have an OEM Windows OS with it? Wouldn't that be an extra 100$ to get that separate unless you put Linux on it (staying legal)? Wal-Mart also sells a decent Lenovo with Windows at that price. You can do even better on a personal build I suppose if someone like Kestrel does it for free. At least that way you could put in a decent power supply to add a video card later.

She could save money with open source software and that's easy for media purposes. They sell even cheaper Android boxes that work fine for media. If she insists on Photoshop though, I think older versions of the Adobe software work in PlayonLinux but usually the latest versions 9and current subscription version) might still be buggy (until they fine tune the emulation). I understand Netflix now works with Firefox on Linux and she would be fine with Kodi with those barebone specs. Same goes for Libre Office. Linux Mint Cinnamon looks a lot like Windows OS and the learning curve would be minimal. Apple still does not support iTunes in Linux though. There are alternatives there though. Someone that strapped for cash though might still find it difficult staying legal with Photoshop.

I'll probably stick with Windows - I hate trying to teach a new OS that I don't even want to bother with to someone who isn't already hugely computer literate herself - but yeah, I'll do the building myself, so that we can squeeze more under the hood for the same money. For Windows, I'll go to the Reddit Microsoft Software Exchange, and pay for a cheap but legitimate key.

On another note Puck - I know you were wanting to see my other computer project get finished - the good news is I'm starting to work on it again. On a day where I've got time, I'm going to experiment with acrylic and a heat gun to see if I can recreate the plastic bubble that would have originally protected the dial in the old radio I'm using for a case. I might utterly fail, but it's worth a try

 

[Puck]

I'll probably stick with Windows - I hate trying to teach a new OS that I don't even want to bother with to someone who isn't already hugely computer literate herself - but yeah, I'll do the building myself, so that we can squeeze more under the hood for the same money. For Windows, I'll go to the Reddit Microsoft Software Exchange, and pay for a cheap but legitimate key.

On another note Puck - I know you were wanting to see my other computer project get finished - the good news is I'm starting to work on it again. On a day where I've got time, I'm going to experiment with acrylic and a heat gun to see if I can recreate the plastic bubble that would have originally protected the dial in the old radio I'm using for a case. I might utterly fail, but it's worth a try

Now you are going to have to post a pic of your acrylic success or disaster - either way.

I'm not a pirate police guy. I really don't care if people use pirated Photoshop especially since Adobe has historically gouged people on it's software going back to Adobe Postscript fonts. I didn't know Reddit had a key exchange; I had bought a legit Photoshop key on eBay though almost a decade ago. I am paying for Photoshop today, I still find it expensive but I don't mind paying for something I have so much fun using and the online subscription has decent features I can use. I have cracked Photoshop (just out of curiosity, just to see if I could do it), and I really don't mind if people go that route when they can't afford it. BTW if people are interested in Photoshop courses (or others) on Lynda.com, most public libraries offer a free subscription service to Lynda.com via their online services (in Canada and the US). Many municipal public libraries offer much more than just free books online.

 

[Kestrel]

Now you are going to have to post a pic of your acrylic success or disaster - either way.

I'm not a pirate police guy. I really don't care if people use pirated Photoshop especially since Adobe has historically gouged people on it's software going back to Adobe Postscript fonts. I didn't know Reddit had a key exchange; I had bought a legit Photoshop key on eBay though almost a decade ago. I am paying for Photoshop today, I still find it expensive but I don't mind paying for something I have so much fun using and the online subscription has decent features I can use. I have cracked Photoshop (just out of curiosity, just to see if I could do it), and I really don't mind if people go that route when they can't afford it. BTW if people are interested in Photoshop courses (or others) on Lynda.com, most public libraries offer a free subscription service to Lynda.com via their online services (in Canada and the US). Many municipal public libraries offer much more than just free books online.

I wasn't asked to include Photoshop in the price of the computer, so I'm going to leave that up to her to take care of The software exchange is... I believe somewhat of a grey market area. The keys are legitimate, and only approved sellers are allowed to sell there, with new sellers generally not being admitted. I think what is usually happening is these guys guy keys in quantity for companies, to get the cheaper bulk rates, and sell the leftovers on the cheap - which is likely against the license agreements, but the keys themselves are valid.

And yeah, I will let you see the acrylic once I've given it a try - I expect the first time to be a failure

 

[Kestrel]

Still on the topic of a cheap Photoshop computer - is there anything I should know about Intel NUC's and Gigabyte Brix's that makes them an unreasonable solution if I find one at a good price? Obviously video card upgrades are out.

 

[SniperHF]

Still on the topic of a cheap Photoshop computer - is there anything I should know about Intel NUC's and Gigabyte Brix's that makes them an unreasonable solution if I find one at a good price? Obviously video card upgrades are out.

It's been a year or so since I've looked at them but I settled on the MSI Probox because it has an LGA socket and isn't a system on a chip BGA thing. Pretty sure NUCs are all BGA so you can't pick your own CPU and they are also laptop CPUs. Unfortunately they don't make the Probox23 anymore but AsRock has a similar product:
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856158048

If you don't mind the BGA/CPU limitations NUCs, Brix, and the like work just fine. I have a Zotac Zbox with a little 4 core celeron that is very peppy despite a relatively weak CPU.

Mainly with those I'd just be aware that the CPUs are basically laptop parts and the GPUs might not match what you'd think say a desktop i3 would have. And benches are extremely difficult to look up and compare apples to apples. That's why I like the versions with a proper socket so I can just get a desktop chip and skip all this nonsense. Just make sure to check the CPU support lists so you don't go over the TDP limit.

Also if you saw a NUC with an i7 you should double check the intel spec sheet on that specific CPU model because some like say the i7-7500U are actually 2 core chips. Of course that can easily come in around the same performance as a desktop i3 it's just something to be aware of. And those units usually do come in a bit cheaper than a socketed mini PC would.

Any of them would probably handle your needs just fine though as long as they aren't the very low end models.

 

[Kestrel]

Mainly with those I'd just be aware that the CPUs are basically laptop parts and the GPUs might not match what you'd think say a desktop i3 would have. And benches are extremely difficult to look up and compare apples to apples. That's why I like the versions with a proper socket so I can just get a desktop chip and skip all this nonsense. Just make sure to check the CPU support lists so you don't go over the TDP limit.

That's enough to make me rethink it. My laptop is one of those dual cored i7's... works fine for games, but I want to get her a "real" chip.

 

[SniperHF]

That's enough to make me rethink it. My laptop is one of those dual cored i7's... works fine for games, but I want to get her a "real" chip.

The AsRock Deskmini with a proper i3 would be pretty good I'd think. i3-7100's are pretty affordable, the Deskmini takes care of the motherboard/case/wifi all in one wack. Throw in an SO-DIMM or 2 and SSD then you've got a computer.

Could also build up a more traditional mini-itx system which could take a GPU. Might be worthwhile to compare costs on which one works out better.

 

[Kestrel]

I'll definitely have a look at the ASrock, thanks. I've thought of going ITX too - it will probably end up being a regular mATX system I do for her, but it never hurts to look at the options.

 

[aleshemsky83]

Wow my computer literally almost started a fire. Cannot figure out for the life of me what happened. Unplugged it and took it out so I could clean and when I plugged it back in it started smoking. Didn't even trip the power strip.

Goes without saying that the computer is toast.

 

[Kestrel]

Wow my computer literally almost started a fire. Cannot figure out for the life of me what happened. Unplugged it and took it out so I could clean and when I plugged it back in it started smoking. Didn't even trip the power strip.

Goes without saying that the computer is toast.

Sorry to hear that. Any loose screws or parts that may have shorted something?