PC Building Guide and Discussion #11 (everything is expensive...)

[Kestrel]

I used to be quite up on those things 2-3 years ago but they keep releasing new ones on me .

I'm a big believer in single threaded performance as a general rule though if you haven't noticed

Yep, I've definitely noticed I guess I just have to decide how much performance I really need. I'm stingy, and don't feel like spending more than I have to. Given that EHM calls for a Pentium III, and that's my current measuring stick, I'm guessing I should be fine with anything I choose - although I'd like to get at least up to Z8700 levels. I certainly don't plan to play the latest (or any) COD on it, it's not really meant to be a gaming machine, more of a convenient light tasks, and media machine - but I always have trouble talking myself down in performance But, it is just a tablet, so no need to blow a ton of money either.

 

[guinness]

I grabbed myself a cheap Windows tablet for $65, and after finding that a Windows tablet has more utility for me than I expected, I'm thinking of getting myself a better one. This one's just a cheap Proscan running on a Z8300. I'm somewhat torn between just getting a better tablet also running on a Z8300/Z8350, or if I want to spend significantly more to grab one running on a Z8700/Z8750, or a little more yet to grab one running on an m3-6Y30 (keyboard separate on the one I'm looking at, but included on all the others).

Most of the time, it'll probably just be used for browsing, emails, etc - or for the oh so demanding task of connecting to my projector for movie time - but I might occasionally fire up games like Eastside Hockey manager. I know these tablets are not high end gaming machines, and don't expect to do anything remotely intense - but does anyone have any experience with these processors to be able to give me some suggestions? I did notice that the m3-6y30 is a dual core processor, while the others are quads - and that while that may sound like a detriment, it means it definitely has much stronger (double the passmark score) single threaded performance.

Opinions?

Edit: The lack of an HDMI port might drop the tablet with the m3 off my list... although I would be tempted to still get it, and grab a USB to HDMI adaptor - but if it's too clunky, that takes away one of the reasons for getting a tablet in the first place.

I'd go for a better CPU, although the quad-core Atoms aren't bad...I have a Bay Trail based Windows tablet, and the only bad thing about it, is that it's nerfed by 1 GB RAM and a 16 GB partition, so no to Chrome, but it surprisingly runs decently, just can't multitask well. Do the m3 chips support HT?

I primarily use it as a Kindle/Wikipedia reader in bed. At times, I have connected it to my TV, and run it as a PC, and controlled it with a bluetooth KB/trackpad combo.

Wouldn't get a Windows anything if at all possible with < 4 GB RAM.

 

[aleshemsky83]

Though isn't there some defect in atoms that cause them to stop working after a year?

Edit: nevermind that was to do with routers.

 

[Kestrel]

I'd go for a better CPU, although the quad-core Atoms aren't bad...I have a Bay Trail based Windows tablet, and the only bad thing about it, is that it's nerfed by 1 GB RAM and a 16 GB partition, so no to Chrome, but it surprisingly runs decently, just can't multitask well. Do the m3 chips support HT?

I primarily use it as a Kindle/Wikipedia reader in bed. At times, I have connected it to my TV, and run it as a PC, and controlled it with a bluetooth KB/trackpad combo.

Wouldn't get a Windows anything if at all possible with < 4 GB RAM.

Yeah, the m3 does hyperthreading. My $65 tablet is also running with 1 GB of RAM, and I was surprised at just how snappy it is - for such a low powered tablet. But yes, I've determined I want at least a 64 GB partition to work with, and at least 4 GB of RAM. Thanks for the input!

 

[Based Anime Fan]

This mostly comes down to your GTX 760 which is pretty dated at this point. Frankly that was one of Nvidia's crappier cards in hindsight as they quickly supplanted it.



If it must be Intel, I'd just get the 7700K and be done with it. Sounds like you've got the money and aren't super concerned about it

You could probably get a full build done with a 7700K+1070 for $1800 CA thereabouts. A lot depends on how high end you go on the SSD/power supply/motherboard and such though.

I have the 7700K/1070 combo, runs real nice. One thing about the 7700K (and any Kabylake) is that if you still use Win 7/8/8.1 you will be practically forced up to Win10. You'll get some nasty messages from Windows indicating that your OS isn't compatible with the hardware. No issue for me as I rather like 10, but some people are just picky about their OS.

Specs on my build:

i7-7700K
Asus Prime Z270-A
EVGA 1070 FE
32GB Kingston HyperX Black (2133)
EVGA G2 650w Gold
2 x Crucial 240GB SSD
1 x Kingston 240GB SSD
NZXT H440

Seems to crush just about everything I throw at it:

 

[guinness]

Yeah, the m3 does hyperthreading. My $65 tablet is also running with 1 GB of RAM, and I was surprised at just how snappy it is - for such a low powered tablet. But yes, I've determined I want at least a 64 GB partition to work with, and at least 4 GB of RAM. Thanks for the input!

http://www.gearbest.com/tablet-pcs/pp_557447.html?wid=21
http://en.chuwi.com/product/items/Chuwi-Hi13.html

~$350 with a 3k screen and keyboard, like a Surface pro.

Chuwi makes other Windows tablets too, some smaller than 13". FWIW, I do on occasion do use my 2-1 Dell Inspiron 13 5000 as a tablet, and it's not bad, but the screen ratio is a bit odd (4:3 or 3:2 would be better IMO).

Here's one of Chuwi's 10" models:
http://www.gearbest.com/tablet-pcs/pp_602713.html (~$170)

https://chuwi.aliexpress.com/store/2179113

I've never used aliexpress for anything terribly expensive, while the free shipping is great on most things, China Post takes awhile.

 

[aleshemsky83]

I've bought a chuwi tablet before and I found the display absolutely abysmal.

 

[Kestrel]

http://www.gearbest.com/tablet-pcs/pp_557447.html?wid=21
http://en.chuwi.com/product/items/Chuwi-Hi13.html

~$350 with a 3k screen and keyboard, like a Surface pro.

Chuwi makes other Windows tablets too, some smaller than 13". FWIW, I do on occasion do use my 2-1 Dell Inspiron 13 5000 as a tablet, and it's not bad, but the screen ratio is a bit odd (4:3 or 3:2 would be better IMO).

Here's one of Chuwi's 10" models:
http://www.gearbest.com/tablet-pcs/pp_602713.html (~$170)

https://chuwi.aliexpress.com/store/2179113

I've never used aliexpress for anything terribly expensive, while the free shipping is great on most things, China Post takes awhile.

Thanks... a 3k screen sounds appealing. I'm going to have to do some digesting... I've been thinking about a 10 inch screen would be ideal, but some of the larger ones look good too. You've given me a place to work from though, thanks!

I've bought a chuwi tablet before and I found the display absolutely abysmal.

Good to know too, thanks!

 

[Kestrel]

I was planning on getting a GTX 1070 I just couldnt decide on the processor. What would you recommend if I want to be able to play current new games now and future new ones? Along with some programming and school work? Im willing to pay up to 2k CDN but from your current post I feel like I wont need to go that high at all. If you can point me in the right direction on where I should be going that would be extremely helpful and I would appreciate that a lot. Id also like to stick to intel and nvidia if thats possible.

I just had a brief thought - there's very little performance difference between Skylake and Kabylake generations - I have sometimes seen the 6700K and Skylake motherboards on reasonably cheap - you might get more bang for the buck that way.

 

[guinness]

http://www.zdnet.com/product/chuwi-hi10-plus-dual-boot-tablet/

 

[aleshemsky83]

I've got a question about playing games below 1080p on a TV.

So I have a mediocre gpu (750 ti) and can play most newer games at 1080p 30

But if I want to decrease the resolution on my 1080p TV to get more fps it will look horrible, while playing games at 720p on ps3 looks completely fine. What is this phenomenon?

There's this horrible fuzzy discolored upscaling doesn't occur in windowed mode or on an emulator. Best theory is maybe the console does its own upscaling which PC doesnt, leaving it up to the TV which is bad at it.

 

[SniperHF]

Best theory is maybe the console does its own upscaling which PC doesnt, leaving it up to the TV which is bad at it.

Your guess is probably correct. Why not try 1600x900?

 

[aleshemsky83]

Your guess is probably correct. Why not try 1600x900?

I have, it's worse than 720p. The colors turn grey and dull and it's just as soft looking

It's a cheaper tv so I'm sure that's it. The display is good but I'm sure the upscaler isnt up to snuff

 

[Kestrel]

http://www.zdnet.com/product/chuwi-hi10-plus-dual-boot-tablet/

Thanks for the links Guinness. I'm torn between price and performance I'll probably decide whether dollars or CPU matter most to me this weekend, and order a tablet. Unless I see a fantastic deal elsewhere, I'll probably go through Banggood, as they use Paypal, and seem to be good about shipping a second item out if the first one goes missing in transit.

 

[Based Anime Fan]

Your guess is probably correct. Why not try 1600x900?

I have, it's worse than 720p. The colors turn grey and dull and it's just as soft looking

It's a cheaper tv so I'm sure that's it. The display is good but I'm sure the upscaler isnt up to snuff

Isn't there some kind of known thing about computers and HDMI TVs (based on panel size and type), or is that only related to the perceived input lag?

As well, most modern consoles do have some built-in supersampling and upscaling (Modern being X-360/PS3 and up)

 

[Habitat]

yo guys i know im building a pc but i also need a laptop

I just came across this and it feels ridiculously underpriced. https://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA9M35448901

Whats the catch here am i missing something?

 

[SniperHF]

yo guys i know im building a pc but i also need a laptop

I just came across this and it feels ridiculously underpriced. https://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA9M35448901

Whats the catch here am i missing something?

That does seem pretty good for Canada bucks. It is sold by someone named "Overstocktobuy " and not newegg directly. Also perhaps being last gen Skylake + a 17.3" it's not that desirable for a lot of people.

But yeah, full 1060 card + 256GB + 1TB + 16GB RAM? That's good stuff.

 

[Habitat]

That does seem pretty good for Canada bucks. It is sold by someone named "Overstocktobuy " and not newegg directly. Also perhaps being last gen Skylake + a 17.3" it's not that desirable for a lot of people.

But yeah, full 1060 card + 256GB + 1TB + 16GB RAM? That's good stuff.

I really only wanted a i7 6700 and 16 gb for school. The ssd and card is a huge bonus. I was planning on 15.6 inch though. How much of a difference is that extra 1.6 inch in reality?

Also is it to worry about buying from overstocktobuy vendor?

 

[SniperHF]

Also is it to worry about buying from overstocktobuy vendor?

No idea on their rep . Couldn't hurt to look around.

For what looks like $500 off from the nearest competitor? I'd probably risk it if I was in the market.

If you buy with a credit card and they screw you over somehow you could dispute it.


EDIT: If you look through their newegg reviews, it seems they have some instances of sending the wrong product. Wouldn't shock me if the newegg listing you link is incorrect. Obviously people with negative experiences are more likely to review, but just putting it out there.

 

[Habitat]

No idea on their rep . Couldn't hurt to look around.

For what looks like $500 off from the nearest competitor? I'd probably risk it if I was in the market.

If you buy with a credit card and they screw you over somehow you could dispute it.


EDIT: If you look through their newegg reviews, it seems they have some instances of sending the wrong product. Wouldn't shock me if the newegg listing you link is incorrect. Obviously people with negative experiences are more likely to review, but just putting it out there.

Yeah this is really off putting. I actually think im gonna pass just because of the 17.3 inch.

 

[Habitat]

Hey sniper can I ask you how much of a difference we're talking with laptops if you're comparing a say i5-7300HQ vs an i7-6700HQ ?

 

[guinness]

Hey sniper can I ask you how much of a difference we're talking with laptops if you're comparing a say i5-7300HQ vs an i7-6700HQ ?

The mobile quad core i7s support HT, so 4C/8T potentially a big difference if doing video or photo on the go. The HQ Core i5 are 4/4.

Intel gets really confusing on how they number their mobile parts, but HQ are the quad-core parts, but their U/Y parts make zero sense for the most part, I have a i7-7500U, and it's 2/4, but just a higher turbo than the very similar i5-7200U, but Core i3's are support HT, but no turbo boost.

 

[Kestrel]

The mobile quad core i7s support HT, so 4C/8T potentially a big difference if doing video or photo on the go. The HQ Core i5 are 4/4.

Intel gets really confusing on how they number their mobile parts, but HQ are the quad-core parts, but their U/Y parts make zero sense for the most part, I have a i7-7500U, and it's 2/4, but just a higher turbo than the very similar i5-7200U, but Core i3's are support HT, but no turbo boost.

I got lucky, and got a 4/8 i7 laptop - before knowing that some mobile i7's are 2/4 - but yeah, it's confusing, and kind of makes me mad that Intel makes knowing what you're getting in the laptop world that much more difficult.

 

[Kestrel]

Guinness - since you've been helpful with some links - here's the tablet I'm thinking of pulling the trigger on:

https://www.banggood.com/Cube-i7-Stylus-64GB-Intel-Core-m3-6Y30-10_6-Inch-Windows-10-Tablet-PC-p-1066095.html

 

[guinness]

I got lucky, and got a 4/8 i7 laptop - before knowing that some mobile i7's are 2/4 - but yeah, it's confusing, and kind of makes me mad that Intel makes knowing what you're getting in the laptop world that much more difficult.

I knew the 7500U was a 2/4 going in, but at the time, the price difference between that and the 7200U got be a backlit KB and 1080p touchscreen too, and personally, I value portability over pure power, otherwise I would've gotten a 15" that would blow the pants off what I've got for the same price. (but I don't value portability enough to go with something like an XPS or Spectre 360 that has soldered down RAM).

As for the tablet, it looks pretty slick, especially with the Wacom stylus support, I can't draw a lick, but I really like Fresh Paint and Windows Ink, and that's just with a plain jane stylus I bought off Amazon. Haven't figured out how to work Paint 3D though.

Does it come with the KB too? (I'm guessing it does) In the end, that's what pushed me towards my current Inspiron 13 5000, I wanted a tablet, but I also needed a KB, and compared to the cost of an iPad Pro or Surface, it can do more for less, however 16:9 makes for an odd tablet ratio.