PC Building Guide and Discussion #11 (everything is expensive...)

[SeidoN]

Yeah it's basically the same thing, though not constantly. You walk into certain areas and the CPU gets slammed. Then you'll be fine for 5 minutes and it will do it again.
Basically anytime it has to load detail textures/objects as you get close.

Yeah sounds similar. I've learned recently that average performance benchmarks for CPU are nice but it's the 1% lows you gotta watch out for. I should be picking up an i7 at the end of June. I'll post back with my experience across a few different games

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

I think the new Nvidia GPUs will be announced tonight at 10PM EST.

 

[SniperHF]

I've learned recently that average performance benchmarks for CPU are nice but it's the 1% lows you gotta watch out for.

Another thing that comes up a lot is when people test games that have no standard benchmark built in, what area they bench at matters a ton. A few years ago now, but when Crysis 3 came out everyone benched the first level. Well the first level was loaded to the gills with shader effects to go for that first WOW when you play it. But if you get another level in you gained as much as 20 FPS.

 

[Kestrel]

Video cards at idle these days run very cool. Mine actually idles lower than my CPU, though admittedly I'm on a bit of a crusty CPU at this point. I assume the newer ones idle lower.
Not quite idle, but just desktop level usage, my RX 480 with my new heatsink is 31C and my CPU is 36C.

My "old" 7950 used to idle in the 40's.

My system is mining, so I guess my card never actually idles. Mining, my CPU is sitting at 47 degrees - which really isn't that hot given the circumstances, but the monster heat sink does a fantastic job pulling the heat from the CPU, so it's definitely still heating the room. The video card is sitting at 79 degrees. Despite the obvious difference in heat, I think the CPU is doing just as much to heat the room as the video card, it just has a cooler that's doing a far superior cooling job.

Actually, having a look at CPUID, the processor is pulling 130w, and the GPU is only pulling 58w - so despite the video card running more than 30 degrees hotter, the CPU will definitely be putting out more heat into the room.

 

[kr580]

If you put a frame cap on it you'll keep your computer cooler.
I have to do this sometimes since the room my system is in heats up easily.

I do actually. 60FPS I think. Good tip to remove the limit in winter though!

 

[SniperHF]

I should be picking up an i7 at the end of June. I'll post back with my experience across a few different games

KC has notorius performance issues so that's why I'm still sort of hesitating to upgrade just for one game.

But TPU did test it by shutting cores/HT off:

Kingdom Come: Deliverance Benchmark Performance Analysis

Of course that's with a 1080 ti and not my lowly RX 480 So I suspect the difference wouldn't be as pronounced.
But going from a little above 80 with 4/4 to ~92 with 4/8 is pretty good. But it still prefers even more then that

It's a weird outlier.

 

[guinness]

KC has notorius performance issues so that's why I'm still sort of hesitating to upgrade just for one game.

But TPU did test it by shutting cores/HT off:
View attachment 122959


Kingdom Come: Deliverance Benchmark Performance Analysis

Of course that's with a 1080 ti and not my lowly RX 480 So I suspect the difference wouldn't be as pronounced.
But going from a little above 80 with 4/4 to ~92 with 4/8 is pretty good. But it still prefers even more then that

It's a weird outlier.

It looks like it just plateaus out in that graph. Roughly double the performance in going 2 to 4 cores, but 4 to 6 cores is about 10-17% ish. Their scaling of the y-axis is terrible IMO, they're trying to infer a difference, but it's slight at the 1080p, nearly non-existent at 4k.

It just seems like there's a point, that the data can't be moved fast enough between CPU cache, RAM, VRAM, storage...

Doesn't make me want to upgrade my 6600k anytime soon.

 

[Sarcastic]

Hello again fellas. I require assistance because something in my computer might have died. I was at the log in screen after turning it on but monitor went black. Restarted and the monitor says ‘no signal please check your connection’.

Tried unplugging and replugging everything. Monitor wires seem to be fine. Tried taking off my RAM one at a time but that doesn’t seem to be the issue. When I turn it off my motherboard has a prolonged red light above my graphics card and I’ve just noticed the one right below it is staying red too. It’s late for me but I’ll try swapping out cards after work tomorrow but I feel inclined to believe my graphics card might have died.

I’ll try posting my specs when I’m at work tomorrow. I know I’m not giving a lot for you guys to work with but any preliminary suggestions would be appreciated. Will definitely try switching graphics cards when I get home. Just too late to do so now.

 

[SniperHF]

Tried unplugging and replugging everything. Monitor wires seem to be fine. Tried taking off my RAM one at a time but that doesn’t seem to be the issue. When I turn it off my motherboard has a prolonged red light above my graphics card and I’ve just noticed the one right below it is staying red too. It’s late for me but I’ll try swapping out cards after work tomorrow but I feel inclined to believe my graphics card might have died.

The most likely component of a PC to croak out is the power supply. It's possible your video card is not outputting video because it is not getting enough power. You can see the same thing happen when you forget to plug in the 6 pin power connector to the video card.

Trying another video card is a relatively easy thing to do so, go ahead and do it if you have another card laying around. But know that if you use a card that requires less power than the one in there now, it could work and you still might have the underlying power issue. You could also try the integrated video if you have it.

With the motherboard model, we could probably figure out exactly what the light means.

 

[Sarcastic]

The most likely component of a PC to croak out is the power supply. It's possible your video card is not outputting video because it is not getting enough power. You can see the same thing happen when you forget to plug in the 6 pin power connector to the video card.

Trying another video card is a relatively easy thing to do so, go ahead and do it if you have another card laying around. But know that if you use a card that requires less power than the one in there now, it could work and you still might have the underlying power issue. You could also try the integrated video if you have it.

With the motherboard model, we could probably figure out exactly what the light means.

It should be the ASUS Z87-A. I’ll confirm when I can look through my old posts in the morning. I’m using a GTX 1060 and my old one is a 760 so that probably would narrow it down to either the power or graphics when I can try it.

It might finally be the power supply I guess. I know back in like November I mentioned it was creating all types of whirring sounds and it might be confirmation bias but I feel it’s kinda stopped in the last week.

I’ll update when I can. Appreciate your help once again.

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

No new Nvidia gaming GPU announced last night... f***ing hell...

 

[Commander Clueless]

No new Nvidia gaming GPU announced last night... ****ing hell...

On the bright side, I can put off spending my allowance for a while longer.

 

[Sarcastic]

The most likely component of a PC to croak out is the power supply. It's possible your video card is not outputting video because it is not getting enough power. You can see the same thing happen when you forget to plug in the 6 pin power connector to the video card.

Trying another video card is a relatively easy thing to do so, go ahead and do it if you have another card laying around. But know that if you use a card that requires less power than the one in there now, it could work and you still might have the underlying power issue. You could also try the integrated video if you have it.

With the motherboard model, we could probably figure out exactly what the light means.

To follow up:

My motherboard is an ASUS Z87-A. I’ve tried swapping out graphics card and I’m still getting nothing on display. I’m pretty sure after looking at the manual for the mobo that it is the VGA LED that’s showing red. Also tried switching outlets based on stuff I’ve read but still nothing is working.

Think it’s safe to assume that my PSU has bit the bullet at this point.

 

[SniperHF]

To follow up:

My motherboard is an ASUS Z87-A. I’ve tried swapping out graphics card and I’m still getting nothing on display. I’m pretty sure after looking at the manual for the mobo that it is the VGA LED that’s showing red. Also tried switching outlets based on stuff I’ve read but still nothing is working.

Think it’s safe to assume that my PSU has bit the bullet at this point.

Maybe, probably. Got another PSU laying around?
The motherboard could still be at fault. Are there any other symptoms? Do the case fans spin when you hit the power button? CPU fan ? How about the video card fan?

Have you tried running on the integrated graphics (no video card in the system)? Since you have a Z87 board that means you've got an intel, so you should have integrated graphics.

 

[Sarcastic]

Maybe, probably. Got another PSU laying around?
The motherboard could still be at fault. Are there any other symptoms? Do the case fans spin when you hit the power button? CPU fan ? How about the video card fan?

Have you tried running on the integrated graphics (no video card in the system)? Since you have a Z87 board that means you've got an intel, so you should have integrated graphics.

All the fans spin when power are on. Case, CPU, and both graphics cards I’ve tried. Have also tried using no graphics card but no luck.

I should still have an old PSU available but it’s in the basement and I can’t climb down there with my bum knee. If there’s no other ways we can diagnose then I’ll go and grab it but would rather not. Haven’t seen anything else I could try while looking at work.

 

[SniperHF]

I should still have an old PSU available but it’s in the basement and I can’t climb down there with my bum knee. If there’s no other ways we can diagnose then I’ll go and grab it but would rather not. Haven’t seen anything else I could try while looking at work.

Have a multimeter?

 

[Sarcastic]

Have a multimeter?

I’m gonna say no based on memory. I’ll grab the spare a bit later then. If it’s a PSU then I need to figure out time to get a new one. I’ll report back when I get a chance.

 

[Sarcastic]

I have managed to grab an old PSU and swap it with my current one. It still does not work. I guess it’s the motherboard now? Unless I’ve missed putting something in. I mean power plug for the CPU, the mobo, and the video card. Doesn’t seem like there’s another option now since both PSUs work.

 

[SniperHF]

I have managed to grab an old PSU and swap it with my current one. It still does not work. I guess it’s the motherboard now? Unless I’ve missed putting something in. I mean power plug for the CPU, the mobo, and the video card. Doesn’t seem like there’s another option now since both PSUs work.

I really hate playing pick a part over the internet . Are you sure the replacement PSU is powerful enough?


Random stuff to try:
Disconnect power, pop the CMOS battery out for 30 seconds, put it back in.

Ensure the card is seated all the way (probably not this)

Try a different PCIe slot (probably not this if integrated won't work)

Check under the motherboard for something shorting it out like a screw.

Attach a PC speaker and listen for beeps.

 

[Sarcastic]

I really hate playing pick a part over the internet . Are you sure the replacement PSU is powerful enough?


Random stuff to try:
Disconnect power, pop the CMOS battery out for 30 seconds, put it back in.

Ensure the card is seated all the way (probably not this)

Try a different PCIe slot (probably not this if integrated won't work)

Check under the motherboard for something shorting it out like a screw.

Attach a PC speaker and listen for beeps.

Regular PSU is a 500W while the old one is a 650W. I could try the older graphics card too but it feels kinda moot right now.

Have tried wiggling everything I got on the machine to the best of my ability. Nothing appears to be loose.

Tried a different PcIe slot too but no go. Don’t think there’s a loose screw based on what I can tell, plus it’d be weird since my computer sat around fine for like 20 minutes before it went to black screen.

No beeps since I’ve turned it on at this point.

 

[SniperHF]

I guess it’s the motherboard now?

Probably. No go on the integrated card, different video card, different PSU.

Did you do the CMOS reset?

I'd want to do a multimeter test on the PSUs first, but I'd be pretty confident it's the board anyway.

It could also be the CPU, though with the VGA light I think that's unlikely. And CPUs are just really hard to kill in general.

You might also check if your monitor is shorting out your system. Basically unplug the monitor from the card, power it up, and see if the VGA light goes out.

You could try taking a look around your board for damaged capacitors just to see if you can prove some damage somewhere:
How to check your desktop computer for failed capacitors

 

[Sarcastic]

Probably. No go on the integrated card, different video card, different PSU.

Did you do the CMOS reset?

I'd want to do a multimeter test on the PSUs first, but I'd be pretty confident it's the board anyway.

It could also be the CPU, though with the VGA light I think that's unlikely. And CPUs are just really hard to kill in general.

You might also check if your monitor is shorting out your system. Basically unplug the monitor from the card, power it up, and see if the VGA light goes out.

You could try taking a look around your board for damaged capacitors just to see if you can prove some damage somewhere:
How to check your desktop computer for failed capacitors

I’m not sure how to do the CMOS reset without causing damage...which sounds very ironic since we’re sure the mobo is dead.

Checked the shortening and the VGA light is still a solid red after I’ve turned it on. It’s still the only light to indicate an issue of sorts. Everything else flickers on briefly before going back off.

There’s one capacitor that seems to be rounded instead of flat but that’s all I can tell from touching it.

At this point, it honestly sounds like I can put back my spare parts into storage and look for replacements. I can’t imagine there’s more possible ways to test it.

 

[flyingkiwi]

I’m not sure how to do the CMOS reset without causing damage...which sounds very ironic since we’re sure the mobo is dead.

Checked the shortening and the VGA light is still a solid red after I’ve turned it on. It’s still the only light to indicate an issue of sorts. Everything else flickers on briefly before going back off.

There’s one capacitor that seems to be rounded instead of flat but that’s all I can tell from touching it.

At this point, it honestly sounds like I can put back my spare parts into storage and look for replacements. I can’t imagine there’s more possible ways to test it.

Had you ever removed the cpu before the problem happened? A bunch of bent socket pins caused big problems for me a year ago. My PC guy was able to right all but one of them, which unfortunately was the one that mattered most. Could be worth checking for.

 

[Sarcastic]

Had you ever removed the cpu before the problem happened? A bunch of bent socket pins caused big problems for me a year ago. My PC guy was able to right all but one of them, which unfortunately was the one that mattered most. Could be worth checking for.

The only time I touched the CPU was when I installed it like 5 years ago.

 

[SniperHF]

I’m not sure how to do the CMOS reset without causing damage...which sounds very ironic since we’re sure the mobo is dead.

There's usually a CMOS reset jumper, you move the jumper to the reset position, boot the computer and it will reset. Then shut down and move the jumper back to the normal position.

But I don't trust that method and prefer to just yank the battery.
You take a small flat screw driver or even better something plastic and pull the little metal tab away from the battery. Then you can lift it out. You kind of have to do both in sequence or the tab flips back.