Prospect Info: Patrik Nemeth

[haf]

How do you win a spot if you never play? This BS about KC not beating out Gonchar almost impossible to prove, especially since one got pp time and the other didn't and they played together where their styles and abilities didn't mesh at all. The benefit of playing KC is that he grows and improves like most young defenders. Gonchar isn't going to do that nor is Connauton ever going to get better in the pressbox. There's no logical reason he should sit tomorrow, even if Dillon is healthy. Ruff won't bench Gonchar but he should.

As for Daley, that awful sequence where he missed the net twice and killed the cycle and zone time is the reason he should be traded this summer. He's the reason offensive chances die way too often.

Connauton played 36 games this year averaging 15 mins. He has two pp assists (both secondary) as well so he got some pp time.

He can skate and has a big shot but his skating takes him to dead ends and for being as big as he is, he just gets tossed around in the corners. Like mentioned, his shots rarely get through.

I would love him to take a step and play over Gonchar. Eye tests say he hasn't earned it.

Daley has been outstanding IMO. If he left, you would miss him.

 

[Hull Fan]

Connauton and Daley have nothing to do with each other. Connauton is strictly in the 6th defender category with Gonchar and Rome. No more, no less. If you think the answer is Rome well, we should probably stop talking about this all together because he flat out sucks. Now as for Gonchar vs Connauton going forward, Gonchar's contract is a sunk cost. Unless Nill can magic a deal where we retain some salary but move him out he's going to be here. That doesn't mean you have to play him. Just because he's owed money shouldn't guarantee him a starting spot.

Most young players improve with time and experience. There's no reason to assume Connauton will not and he needs to be playing more than 36 games with huge stretches out of the lineup. Does everyone remember how awful Jordie was? I'm not saying KC will improve like that but he'll never reach his potential in the press box. Connauton has the chance to be better than what Gonchar is right now, starting next season. Him getting that experience and learning is more valuable to the club that putting Gonchar out there night after night and not getting much anyway. Now if Ruff and James Patrick have decided Connauton not good enough they need to trade him before he has basically no value whatsoever.

Daley on the other hand has value. He should be a 3/4 defenseman playing 18 minutes a night but right now in Dallas he's playing 23+ on the 1st pair. He's not awful but he is miscast at this juncture. I propose moving him in a trade to upgrade the 2nd line and bringing in someone better to take his spot. Ideally that would be Fayne in my world. Won't cost a ton, solid steady defender who can mop up Goligoski's defensive deficiencies. Then Dallas can ease Oleksiak and/or Klingberg into the lineup where their play will determine if they move up or down the pairings.

Daley's about as valuable as he's ever going to be but the TOI and matchups he's been given by Ruff put him in a position to fail far too often. Better to sell him this summer fill a hole, whether that's another (different type of defender) or a 2C than continue to pair he and Goligoski together.

I just can't picture Ruff demoting Daley back down the lineup next season but they'll want to make room for one of Oleksiak or Klingberg so use the best trade bait you have to improve the club and create a spot for the next defensive upgrade.

 

[Cin]

I think that's the right way to do it. Hopefully the Aaron Rome experiment gets dealt with in the summer to get rid of that as a press box option.

Connauton's future with this franchise depends heavily on how he is viewed by his coach and GM. I could see him moved in the summer if he isn't given a very big vote of confidence by Ruff. There would appear to be a decent chance of this happening. I will be even more sure if Rome plays tomorrow in lieu of KC.

Gaunce may have more use helping along our other prospects in the AHL rather than being healthy scratched in the NHL most nights. Hell, Gaunce may not even be retained given that he's a RFA and isn't an NHL caliber player.

Jokipakka would be my choice for 7th defenseman if Rome and Connauton aren't here next season.

He's not ready.

 

[haf]

Connauton and Daley have nothing to do with each other. Connauton is strictly in the 6th defender category with Gonchar and Rome. No more, no less. If you think the answer is Rome well, we should probably stop talking about this all together because he flat out sucks. Now as for Gonchar vs Connauton going forward, Gonchar's contract is a sunk cost. Unless Nill can magic a deal where we retain some salary but move him out he's going to be here. That doesn't mean you have to play him. Just because he's owed money shouldn't guarantee him a starting spot.

Most young players improve with time and experience. There's no reason to assume Connauton will not and he needs to be playing more than 36 games with huge stretches out of the lineup. Does everyone remember how awful Jordie was? I'm not saying KC will improve like that but he'll never reach his potential in the press box. Connauton has the chance to be better than what Gonchar is right now, starting next season. Him getting that experience and learning is more valuable to the club that putting Gonchar out there night after night and not getting much anyway. Now if Ruff and James Patrick have decided Connauton not good enough they need to trade him before he has basically no value whatsoever.

Daley on the other hand has value. He should be a 3/4 defenseman playing 18 minutes a night but right now in Dallas he's playing 23+ on the 1st pair. He's not awful but he is miscast at this juncture. I propose moving him in a trade to upgrade the 2nd line and bringing in someone better to take his spot. Ideally that would be Fayne in my world. Won't cost a ton, solid steady defender who can mop up Goligoski's defensive deficiencies. Then Dallas can ease Oleksiak and/or Klingberg into the lineup where their play will determine if they move up or down the pairings.

Daley's about as valuable as he's ever going to be but the TOI and matchups he's been given by Ruff put him in a position to fail far too often. Better to sell him this summer fill a hole, whether that's another (different type of defender) or a 2C than continue to pair he and Goligoski together.

I just can't picture Ruff demoting Daley back down the lineup next season but they'll want to make room for one of Oleksiak or Klingberg so use the best trade bait you have to improve the club and create a spot for the next defensive upgrade.

I agree KC and Daley have nothing to do with each other. I was responding your above post.

KC should get more chances to prove himself, but isn't there yet and coaches need to play the best players. You have to outplay the veteran in front of you to get consistent time. Period. Saying he isn't getting chances with 36 games if false though. It will be "a process" as Nill would say. KC is coming or not but he IS getting chances.

Rome is a lost cause. Write him off. He has even lost his veteran deferrals.

Daley is our best defender. If he had a bigger more complete partner, I think he could be a serviceable two actually. He is making so many good plays with his stick these days. His net play has improved dramatically this season. Really like his game.

I am not saying don't move him, but you better park that trade if you do it, because you are giving up your best and most tenured defenseman. I strongly feel that Daley is undervalued on these boards.

 

[BigG44]

Speaking of Chicago, in the draft thread, getting lucky on a 2nd round pick with Keith ... which Dallas defender prospects have a shot at becoming a two-way, top pair D?

I tend to think Brenden Dillon could be a decent, all around defender if they'd give him a shot on the PP.

In Texas, Jamie Oleksiak is the obvious choice, but Jokipakka is a possibility if he can keep improving his skating. For Ilves in Finland, Jokipakka was a top pair D.

Those are pretty much Dallas' only shot at an all around top defender any time soon.

Both Esa Lindell and Dmitry Sinitsyn took big steps toward being all around players this season. Lindell demonstrated he could be a solid all around guy among his peers at the U20, and we already know based on his history in the Finnish U20 league that he can be a major point producer. Sinitsyn was a totally unknown guy with a good skillset, and he turned into a top pair all around guy in the WHL. That's not an easy league to put it all together, especially having not played for most of 2 years.

So basically ... Dallas doesn't seem all that close to developing a top pair guy, but I guess Oleksiak is still the best shot. He's been solid in the playoffs, but he's still not as dominant as I'd hoped. He's probably a year or two from being a confident Top 4 option in the NHL. I still think he's playing a year in the AHL likely, and then he'll have some adjustment time like Dillon has had.

 

[NFKappaB]

Speaking of Chicago, in the draft thread, getting lucky on a 2nd round pick with Keith ... which Dallas defender prospects have a shot at becoming a two-way, top pair D?

I tend to think Brenden Dillon could be a decent, all around defender if they'd give him a shot on the PP.

In Texas, Jamie Oleksiak is the obvious choice, but Jokipakka is a possibility if he can keep improving his skating. For Ilves in Finland, Jokipakka was a top pair D.

Those are pretty much Dallas' only shot at an all around top defender any time soon.

Both Esa Lindell and Dmitry Sinitsyn took big steps toward being all around players this season. Lindell demonstrated he could be a solid all around guy among his peers at the U20, and we already know based on his history in the Finnish U20 league that he can be a major point producer. Sinitsyn was a totally unknown guy with a good skillset, and he turned into a top pair all around guy in the WHL. That's not an easy league to put it all together, especially having not played for most of 2 years.

So basically ... Dallas doesn't seem all that close to developing a top pair guy, but I guess Oleksiak is still the best shot. He's been solid in the playoffs, but he's still not as dominant as I'd hoped. He's probably a year or two from being a confident Top 4 option in the NHL. I still think he's playing a year in the AHL likely, and then he'll have some adjustment time like Dillon has had.

Odd that you mention Jokipakka improving his skating. His control and speed with the puck was the one thing that really impressed me last night.

 

[glovesave_35]

Speaking of Chicago, in the draft thread, getting lucky on a 2nd round pick with Keith ... which Dallas defender prospects have a shot at becoming a two-way, top pair D?

I tend to think Brenden Dillon could be a decent, all around defender if they'd give him a shot on the PP.

In Texas, Jamie Oleksiak is the obvious choice, but Jokipakka is a possibility if he can keep improving his skating. For Ilves in Finland, Jokipakka was a top pair D.

Those are pretty much Dallas' only shot at an all around top defender any time soon.

Both Esa Lindell and Dmitry Sinitsyn took big steps toward being all around players this season. Lindell demonstrated he could be a solid all around guy among his peers at the U20, and we already know based on his history in the Finnish U20 league that he can be a major point producer. Sinitsyn was a totally unknown guy with a good skillset, and he turned into a top pair all around guy in the WHL. That's not an easy league to put it all together, especially having not played for most of 2 years.

So basically ... Dallas doesn't seem all that close to developing a top pair guy, but I guess Oleksiak is still the best shot. He's been solid in the playoffs, but he's still not as dominant as I'd hoped. He's probably a year or two from being a confident Top 4 option in the NHL. I still think he's playing a year in the AHL likely, and then he'll have some adjustment time like Dillon has had.

Klingberg is the obvious choice for me. It really depends on how his game translates to North America.

 

[BigG44]

Klingberg is the obvious choice for me. It really depends on how his game translates to North America.

I'm only talking about all around players. He for sure could be an above average point producer, and he might even fit a similar role as Goligoski where he eventually plays some in all situations.

Unless he just does a 180 on his career in NA, he's not the guy that plays 25 or more a night against the top competition shutting them down. You'd have the same complaints about him in that role that people have with Goligoski pushed into that role.

It's the Erik Karlsson argument all over for me. People get their panties in a wad because to me he's not a number one defender. There's nothing I wouldn't give to have him on Dallas' team, but Dallas' defense would still be unable to play head up to top competition and games would be a track meet with no ability to defend ... like they are now.

Dallas desperately needs a Karlsson type player, but that's not enough to be a good team.

 

[BigG44]

Odd that you mention Jokipakka improving his skating. His control and speed with the puck was the one thing that really impressed me last night.

Skating has been an issue for him all year. You might blame it more precisely on conditioning though if you'd like. Whatever it is, game in and game out, more than the other defenders, he's struggled to maintain a high level of play. He's very young so that's not a bad thing ... it's just something he has to work on. Oleksiak, the youngest guy on the team when the season started struggled with consistency as well, but I'd say even he wasn't nearly as up and down.

Whether it's conditioning or skating or even a combination of the two, this is the hardest schedule he's ever faced. In the AHL it's not uncommon to play 3 games in 3 nights and the majority of games do occur on Friday, Saturday, or Sunday. Add to that the travel is horrendous.

He's coming from a situation in Finland where every single team is contained in an area of land half the size of Texas, games are more regularly scheduled throughout the week, and they have a mid-season break for Christmas for several weeks IIRC.

These guys coming from EU aren't just adjusting to the size of the rink so I'm not criticizing Jokipakka in a negative way at all. The fact that he does look so much better some games might even suggest it's a simple acclimation and conditioning issue.

 

[Johno]

...
...

Whether it's conditioning or skating or even a combination of the two, this is the hardest schedule he's ever faced. In the AHL it's not uncommon to play 3 games in 3 nights and the majority of games do occur on Friday, Saturday, or Sunday. Add to that the travel is horrendous.

He's coming from a situation in Finland where every single team is contained in an area of land half the size of Texas, games are more regularly scheduled throughout the week, and they have a mid-season break for Christmas for several weeks IIRC.

These guys coming from EU aren't just adjusting to the size of the rink so I'm not criticizing Jokipakka in a negative way at all. The fact that he does look so much better some games might even suggest it's a simple acclimation and conditioning issue.

That's true. Liiga has a 10-day "national team break" (Euro hockey tour games) early November, ~Two week Christmas break + 5 days around New Year's. Then another 10-day "NT break" in mid February. The season is only 60 games, which are mainly slotted in Tuesday - Thursday - Saturday schedule. So very "easy" compared to AHL schedule...

I would've liked for JJpakka to take bigger steps in his first year in NA, but can't really be disappointed in what he did this season. Have to admit that I may have had too high expectations for him anyways. But what I do want him to do is work on his skating in the summer (Granlund style) and come back next season to be that big minute defender he was in FEL.

 

[glovesave_35]

I'm only talking about all around players. He for sure could be an above average point producer, and he might even fit a similar role as Goligoski where he eventually plays some in all situations.

Unless he just does a 180 on his career in NA, he's not the guy that plays 25 or more a night against the top competition shutting them down. You'd have the same complaints about him in that role that people have with Goligoski pushed into that role.

It's the Erik Karlsson argument all over for me. People get their panties in a wad because to me he's not a number one defender. There's nothing I wouldn't give to have him on Dallas' team, but Dallas' defense would still be unable to play head up to top competition and games would be a track meet with no ability to defend ... like they are now.

Dallas desperately needs a Karlsson type player, but that's not enough to be a good team.

I was under the impression Klingberg was one of the all around minutes leaders in the SHL. If that's not true then I take it back. Last I saw (couple months ago) he was a top 10 minutes guys in the league playing something like 27 mins/game.

 

[glovesave_35]

That's true. Liiga has a 10-day "national team break" (Euro hockey tour games) early November, ~Two week Christmas break + 5 days around New Year's. Then another 10-day "NT break" in mid February. The season is only 60 games, which are mainly slotted in Tuesday - Thursday - Saturday schedule. So very "easy" compared to AHL schedule...

Slightly OT, but as a sports fan I like working breaks into the seasons if it helps make for healthier players and a better product.

 

[ginblossoms]

I was under the impression Klingberg was one of the all around minutes leaders in the SHL. If that's not true then I take it back. Last I saw (couple months ago) he was a top 10 minutes guys in the league playing something like 27 mins/game.

I'm under the same impression. While playing a ton of minutes can indicate that a dman is the de facto #1 defender on a team, it doesn't necessarily translate into being a prototypical #1 defender. Back to Karlsson, he played the most minutes but doesn't fit that profile either. Same as Mike Green from a few years back.

As far as what #1 defender means, I personally don't hold it against a player for being biased so much offensively. One way to play defense is to prevent the other team from having the puck and providing scoring opportunities.

 

[BigG44]

I was under the impression Klingberg was one of the all around minutes leaders in the SHL. If that's not true then I take it back. Last I saw (couple months ago) he was a top 10 minutes guys in the league playing something like 27 mins/game.

He did, and Karlsson plays 27 minutes a game in the NHL. They both play similar styles. It's high paced and in the other team's zone, but no player is going to excursively play in the offensive zone. You have to defend as well. Karlsson is also rare because he's a special player. He's going to have to defend even less than your normal offensive defender because he has world class talent.

I think it's probably a stretch to speculate Klingberg can be that guy right now. My hope is he can be as good or better than Goligoski, but expecting him to become one of the best offensive defenders in the world is a bit much at this point. Klingberg is likely much closer to Goligoski than Karlsson.

So as far as my primary question goes, no I don't think Klingberg is closer to being an all-around two-way defender than Dillon, Oleksiak, or Jokipakka. He's for sure a better option than any of them to be a big time scorer.

 

[BigG44]

I'm purposely not even saying #1 defender because I know that can spiral into a huge debate, especially when you're talking an offensive beast like Karlsson vs. a Duncan Keith or Lidstrom.

I chose all-around/ two-way specifically because I think that's an important position. I don't think you can have 3 offensive defenders (Goligoski/Klingberg) and 3 defensive defenseman (Nemeth).

If I had my choice, we'd have 6 awesome, high scoring defenders, but at the very least I think a pair of guys like Suter-Weber or Keith-Seabrook who can defend and score with equal success is pretty key to shutting down the other teams top line and winning games.

R&R and other local media at nausea pointed out Dallas won when Goligoski and Daley scored/produced. That's great, but the other side of that is if they get shutdown ... which can and will happen .... they aren't good enough to effectively shutout the other teams top line and help Dallas win. It's an all or nothing pair which on average was good more often than bad. I'm not dumping on them.

I just think a better formula for success would be a pair that could challenge the top players on the opposition offensively and defensively. So that's why I was focusing on those defenders.

To this point, Goligoski hasn't been able to play well on any pair except when it was an all attack. That's why I honestly think the idea of reducing his QOC might make him an even better player. Instead of living and dying by his or another offensive defenders successes and mistakes. His mistakes might not be so lethal against Marcus Kruger as they are against Patrick Kane.

I think Klingberg is going to be a similar type player.

Now to lean a bit more negative ... I'm still not sold though on Goligoski's ability to run a good PP. The most consistent part of the terrible PP is Richards has been gone and Curtis Fraser. So ... is the coach the bigger issue or the man who has been the primary QB the past two seasons? I don't have an answer that I'm 100% convinced is right, but as much as I'd like to see Fraser replaced, I do tend to be down more on Goligoski's performance on the man advantage. I think it's fair to be seriously annoyed that Goli's nearly full minute more a game than Gonchar on the PP resulted in the same number of points.

 

[BigG44]

Suter-Weber and Keith-Seabrook are pretty silly examples now that I think of it considering they're elite pairs.

Something like what they have in NY is maybe a better example. McDonagh-Girardi is damn good, and probably borderline elite if not elite. I'd say that's a pair that seems much more attainable though. An elite guy with a high end, two-way defender, rather than two elite all around defenders like Suter and Weber.

I don't know if Edler and say Oleksiak or Dillon as good, but maybe they could be close.

Even NY's 2nd pair is solid but not necessarily heralded. NY isn't working with one-dimensional defenders for the most part, and especially not in the Top 4 IMO.

I do think Nemeth has enough puck skills to be a guy like Girardi though and not a one dimensional defensive defender.

 

[glovesave_35]

He did, and Karlsson plays 27 minutes a game in the NHL. They both play similar styles. It's high paced and in the other team's zone, but no player is going to excursively play in the offensive zone. You have to defend as well. Karlsson is also rare because he's a special player. He's going to have to defend even less than your normal offensive defender because he has world class talent.

A lot of people around the league thought Zubov was just an offensive defenseman. I don't really want to get into a debate about what makes a #1 but Zubov became a better defender as his career progressed. Karlsson could still do that, as could any early 20's player.

So as far as my primary question goes, no I don't think Klingberg is closer to being an all-around two-way defender than Dillon, Oleksiak, or Jokipakka. He's for sure a better option than any of them to be a big time scorer.

Think it's time I abandon the discussion. Seems you've seen a lot more of Klingberg than I have and I'm not prepared to make the concrete statements you've made about him.

 

[BigG44]

A lot of people around the league thought Zubov was just an offensive defenseman. I don't really want to get into a debate about what makes a #1 but Zubov became a better defender as his career progressed. Karlsson could still do that, as could any early 20's player.



Think it's time I abandon the discussion. Seems you've seen a lot more of Klingberg than I have and I'm not prepared to make the concrete statements you've made about him.

What's the point of discussion? We can't read their mind, right? Like you said.

 

[glovesave_35]

What's the point of discussion? We can't read their mind, right? Like you said.

How many Frolunda games have you watched this season?

 

[Klockis]

What a goal by Nemeth to win the Calder for Texas. This guy got some moves in him.

 

[Satan]

Just what we need... Another lefty

 

[piqued]

Man that was a huge moment for him. You wonder if it's the kind of thing that could alter the trajectory of a career and permanently give him more confidence.

 

[Stars99Lobo37]

What a boss.

 

[Klockis]

This needs to be here.

 

[Kalamazoo Wings]

He's starting to get a nice resume with a WJC and Calder Cup... First and assist on Zibanejad's winner, and an absolute gem tonight!