Player Discussion: Patrik Laine - MOD WARNING IN OP

[Adam da bomb]

I would love if there was this much analysis on other players like what does Mo have to do in the off-season what are his weaknesses?

 

[Tommigun]

According to this thread, Hannu Rautala, Rautala never takes his trainees onto the ice, instead they are training agility, strength etc off the ice. So as long as Laine trains with that loser he won’t become a single bit better at skating.

 

[Carbooja]

Since it's pretty slow these days, this guy reminds me of Patrik Laine with his stash.

 

[StatisticsAddict99]

According to this thread, Hannu Rautala, Rautala never takes his trainees onto the ice, instead they are training agility, strength etc off the ice. So as long as Laine trains with that loser he won’t become a single bit better at skating.

That’s actually pretty scary, if that’s actually the case I think Laine should consider staying in NA and training with an Elite offseason trainer like Gary Roberts, Laine is not gonna fix his skating by not skating... That sounds like a disaster.

 

[Tommigun]

That’s actually pretty scary, if that’s actually the case I think Laine should consider staying in NA and training with an Elite offseason trainer like Gary Roberts, Laine is not gonna fix his skating by not skating... That sounds like a disaster.

I think this is indeed correct because there’s multiple links in that thread, including this 40 minute summer training documentary video (featuring Laine himself),
,
which seem to portray a picture of lots of strength training off the ice. And apparently Rautala’s philosophy really is to not go on the ice at all.

I also remember Laine saying in old interviews that he doesn’t skate AT ALL during the summer.

He should just start training with Scheifele, or nothing will happen.

 

[Maukkis]

Yeah, count me in on those who are seriously questioning Rautala's methods. Laine needs to work on his weaknesses, not to become a lumberjack.

 

[Halberdier]

According to this thread, Hannu Rautala, Rautala never takes his trainees onto the ice, instead they are training agility, strength etc off the ice. So as long as Laine trains with that loser he won’t become a single bit better at skating.

Skillwise Laine is a good skater, but he has long limbs and lacks power, esp. explosive power.

Do you really think he could get that explosive power just by skating more? If so, you are just plain wrong.

He needs a lot of gym / cross fit / whatever off-ice training to get those muscles and explosivity to be able to skate faster.

(Not saying he should not have those figure skating lessons as well and other stuff, but you can't cheat the gym work and building up those muscles you need for skating just by skating alone. That will never work.)

Do you think that Usain Bolt got his running speed by running alone?

It's OK to have a break from skating, even an extended one like 1 month or even more. I am with you guys of course that maybe he should not be like 3-4 months without skating (or shooting the puck).

Last summer they needed to make everything a bit better and gain some bulk mass, which in turn works agains the agility. I don't know if they can already this season focus more on agility/explosiveness, or do they still need to fix everything a bit.

I just hope they are doing what is the best for his long term development and just ignore what all sorts of armchair experts "know" on forums.

 

[Asiantuntija]

70 goals next season, heard it from here first.

 

[Tommigun]

Do you think that Usain Bolt got his running speed by running alone?

No, but I doubt he got his running speed from the gym alone, and I'd wager some money on him hitting the track at least once in a while in his training.

And that's the problem we have with Laine's training, he's not going on the ice at all during summers. How the heck could he become better at skating by not skating? Even I would be a better trainer than that hack of a man.

 

[Weezeric]

According to this thread, Hannu Rautala, Rautala never takes his trainees onto the ice, instead they are training agility, strength etc off the ice. So as long as Laine trains with that loser he won’t become a single bit better at skating.

Rautala trains barkov, does he not? His skating has improved immensely

 

[Tommigun]

Rautala trains barkov, does he not? His skating has improved immensely

Yes, Barkov's skating improved immensely after he stopped training with Rautala, whom he no longer trains with. So another proof of Rautala being absolutely worthless.

Barkov haluaa olla yhä parempi: ”Laine voi olla paras vasen laita ja minä sentteri”
"Laine has been excercising in Turku in a group led by Hannu Rautala. Barkov has been on the ice in Tampere and Helinki's Salmisaari.
Don't you fit into the same group?
-Maybe it's better that we don't see eachother's faces all the time. You could lose your temper, Laine jokes."

It's simple, Laine doesn't hit the ice, Barkov does and his skating improves.

 

[Whileee]

Skillwise Laine is a good skater, but he has long limbs and lacks power, esp. explosive power.

Do you really think he could get that explosive power just by skating more? If so, you are just plain wrong.

He needs a lot of gym / cross fit / whatever off-ice training to get those muscles and explosivity to be able to skate faster.

(Not saying he should not have those figure skating lessons as well and other stuff, but you can't cheat the gym work and building up those muscles you need for skating just by skating alone. That will never work.)

Do you think that Usain Bolt got his running speed by running alone?

It's OK to have a break from skating, even an extended one like 1 month or even more. I am with you guys of course that maybe he should not be like 3-4 months without skating (or shooting the puck).

Last summer they needed to make everything a bit better and gain some bulk mass, which in turn works agains the agility. I don't know if they can already this season focus more on agility/explosiveness, or do they still need to fix everything a bit.

I just hope they are doing what is the best for his long term development and just ignore what all sorts of armchair experts "know" on forums.

I'm all for off-ice training, but anyone who thinks that improving skating doesn't involve any skating seems oof base. Laine needs to improve his skating.

 

[grieves]

Different individuals need different things at different stages of development. Barkov is older so what he is doing does not matter in the least.

It may not be time for improving skating yet, but to work at the gym. I'll trust Rautala more than anyone here, that is for sure. The man has a proven track record.

That said, maybe they are doing the wrong things, but I doubt that. Besides, everybody yelling about Laine's skating probably has not gone unnoticed. IF they need to adjust, I'm sure they will.

Feels like we've had this discussion before

 

[Tommigun]

Different individuals need different things at different stages of development. Barkov is older so what he is doing does not matter in the least.

It may not be time for improving skating yet, but to work at the gym. I'll trust Rautala more than anyone here, that is for sure. The man has a proven track record.

That said, maybe they are doing the wrong things, but I doubt that. Besides, everybody yelling about Laine's skating probably has not gone unnoticed. IF they need to adjust, I'm sure they will.

Feels like we've had this discussion before

How would they adjust as long as Laine trains with Rautala, who doesn't do on-ice training?

 

[grieves]

How would they adjust as long as Laine trains with Rautala, who doesn't do on-ice training?

It seems to me you need on-ice training for technique, not for building up explosiveness in your legs. If it's not necessary, why put on the gear all the time? Seems like a waste of time. Again, I'm sure they might have talked about this at some point...

And didn't Barkov go train with a figure skater? So he went to train technique after becoming the incredible Hulk under Rautala's watch. Makes perfect sense.

 

[Halberdier]

I'm all for off-ice training, but anyone who thinks that improving skating doesn't involve any skating seems oof base. Laine needs to improve his skating.

Improving skating does involve skating, but improving muscles needed for explosive skating does not involve skating. And Laine's biggest weakness by far is his lack of explosive power on his legs/lower body/abs, not his skating skills.

Usain Bolt did not get his muscles that are vital for his running by running. That would have been impossible to do.

What they did season before did hurt his short term production for sure as he got a lot more mass (and probably even without those little pills they use in NA). In the long term that should be helping him, at least that was what they thought.

Even professionals make mistakes. Sloppy and mediocre ones like Maurice do a lot of mistakes. Guys with proven track record like Rautala are also prone for making errors, but I guess they will usually do much less errors than your average armchair trainer would. Rantanen looks awesome now given that where he was couple of years ago.

Everyone and their mother knows that Laine needs more explosive power and endurance (two very different and in a way opposite traits btw.), but he also needs more power (cycle game for example). There are no short cuts (except using illegal substances, and even that does no miracles) to make Laine an agile, powerful and durable monster.

He is a big guy with relatively recent knee injury. It will take more time we as fans would like it to be, but that's life. In couple of years he will be considerably more agile, barring injuries.

Another subject is that due to his size and long stride, he will never look agile and fast, even when he probably will be, and in some ways is already (speedskated like Horvat and McKinnon). So even if he improves a lot and wins all kind of speed competitions he will be considered slow by many fans online, just like he is considered defensive liability now by many fans. Therefore some things never change.

 

[Halberdier]

How would they adjust as long as Laine trains with Rautala, who doesn't do on-ice training?

You need different coaches for different things. For sure Rautala is not a figure skating coach and will never ever be.

 

[Tommigun]

Sloppy and mediocre ones like Maurice do a lot of mistakes. Guys with proven track record like Rautala are also prone for making errors [...].

I'd say it's the other way, Maurice has a proven track record, Rautala is sloppy and mediocre. Nobody knows him except a few Finns, he's an old dude with a reputation, that's all.

 

[Tommigun]

You need different coaches for different things. For sure Rautala is not a figure skating coach and will never ever be.

Maybe Laine should then go the Barkov route and go with a coach that can teach him skating. If a real elite coach notices that Laine needs to spend some time in the gym don't you think he's going to order Laine to do some reps? That's all Rautala has to offer, and that's all he's going to do with Laine until Laine decides to no longer use his services. But Laine may stay several years too long with the guy who can only provide strength training, he's not going to cut Laine off because Laine brings him revenue and recognition.

 

[grieves]

Maybe Laine should then go the Barkov route and go with a coach that can teach him skating. If a real elite coach notices that Laine needs to spend some time in the gym don't you think he's going to order Laine to do some reps? That's all Rautala has to offer, and that's all he's going to do with Laine until Laine decides to no longer use his services. But Laine may stay several years too long with the guy who can only provide strength training, he's not going to cut Laine off because Laine brings him revenue and recognition.

Where are you getting your information that Rautala sucks? Genuinely interested.

 

[Howard Chuck]

Where is anyone getting any of their information from? You don't think that the Jets, the trainers, Laine himself, know what is best for Laine? I'm sure that there are many eyes on his training seeing as how he is such a high profile player with so much potential.

There is a lot of worrying that the Jets aren't going to pull out every trick in the book to make Laine the best player he can be. But remember, the Jets organization isn't one to skip steps to pacify forum posters, they will do what's right so that they can get many productive years out of Laine.

I'm sure it's not up to Laine alone where he trains and what he does, there is far too much riding on this for every knowledgeable stakeholder to not have a say in how/where he trains.

 

[LowLefty]

Where is anyone getting any of their information from? You don't think that the Jets, the trainers, Laine himself, know what is best for Laine? I'm sure that there are many eyes on his training seeing as how he is such a high profile player with so much potential.

There is a lot of worrying that the Jets aren't going to pull out every trick in the book to make Laine the best player he can be. But remember, the Jets organization isn't one to skip steps to pacify forum posters, they will do what's right so that they can get many productive years out of Laine.

I'm sure it's not up to Laine alone where he trains and what he does, there is far too much riding on this for every knowledgeable stakeholder to not have a say in how/where he trains.

Well, we don't have an issue with calling out the coaching staff so I don't see any reason that we can't call out the trainers.

 

[StatisticsAddict99]

Hope Maurice/Chevy sends a trainer there to work on ice.

 

[10Ducky10]

He takes a bit to get going but his skating is fine by me. He needs to work on not losing possession of the puck and using his size to his advantage.
I think we see a banner year from Laine...especially if he doesn't extend this summer.

 

[10Ducky10]

Well, we don't have an issue with calling out the coaching staff so I don't see any reason that we can't call out the trainers.

yup, most wanted Maurice, Flaherty and Huddy gone.