Patches needs no DD to win games. 4-3 Habs (SO)

[Capitaine Subban*]

That doesn't excuse you from criticism if you say something that is completely off base. There is no evidence that Desharnais is a better offensive player than Plekanec the last few seasons, even when you limit that to offensive production with Pacioretty, Plekanec has him beat. The second premise is that Desharnais is more effective than Galchenyuk, and while there could be arguments made the last few years, this is demonstrably not the case this season.

There is a difference between defending what MB/MT are doing or trying to see things from their perspective and making a statement to vindicate them which is completely off base.

I wasnt saying any of that actually I disagree with Daniel45 on DD "eliteness" but was just saying being a Habs defender will get you attacked from the negative crowd. That's all.

 

[Capitaine Subban*]

Dude, lol
he could have called Davey a good player, he could have said "he proved to everyone he belonged in the NHL after everyone last year said he belongs in the AHL"...there were so many different ways he could have proped up Davey that would have not caused mass ridicule here, but instead he opted to call him ELITE.

I strongly disagree with Daniel45 opinion on DD but he was ineffectively defending the team and got attack, put on ignore like if he was a Bruins fan trolling.
If that postthat I was responding is not deleted you'll understand my larger point and the context.

 

[Hoople]

Without Price it feels like we're right back in the middle of the Koivu era.

This is the reality of the NHL.

If you don't have an elite goalie , the team results will be average.

 

[Whitesnake]

This is the reality of the NHL.

If you don't have an elite goalie , the team results will be average.

Lehtonen and Niemi are elite? Crawford is elite? Allen and Elliott are elite? Yes, Holtby is elite and so is Quick. But is Luongo STILL elite?

And yet, Fleury has won a cup and could be seen as elite....Schneider could totally be seen as better as the ones I named before....same with Bishop....same with Ryan Miller....what does Martin Jones and Fredrik Andersen doesn't have that the goalies from Dallas, Hawks and St-Louis has? Ah yes....A GREAT TEAM in front of them.

Reality is that quite a few teams have won the Cup or were a Cup Finalist with NOT an elite goalie...but a good to great one.

You don't need a goalie to be elite....but you do need goalie to be more than average to bad. For sure.

 

[Nynja*]

This is the reality of the NHL.

If you don't have an elite goalie , the team results will be average.

Is Chris Osgood elite? He has 3 cup rings somehow.
Is Corey Crawford elite? He has 2 cup rings.
Is Tim Thomas elite? He has a cup ring.
Antti Niemi? cup ring too.
Cam Ward also has a cup ring.
Khabibulin also has a cup ring.

 

[Hoople]

Lehtonen and Niemi are elite? Crawford is elite? Allen and Elliott are elite? Yes, Holtby is elite and so is Quick. But is Luongo STILL elite?

And yet, Fleury has won a cup and could be seen as elite....Schneider could totally be seen as better as the ones I named before....same with Bishop....same with Ryan Miller....what does Martin Jones and Fredrik Andersen doesn't have that the goalies from Dallas, Hawks and St-Louis has? Ah yes....A GREAT TEAM in front of them.

Reality is that quite a few teams have won the Cup or were a Cup Finalist with NOT an elite goalie...but a good to great one.

You don't need a goalie to be elite....but you do need goalie to be more than average to bad. For sure.

I guess we're back to parsing what the word elite means

Sigh.........

 

[Winter Eclipse]

I guess we're back to parsing what the word elite means

Sigh.........

Or simply using it properly.

 

[Habsawce]

If you have an average forward corps and a crappy goalie, you're going to have a bad time. I believe this is what he meant

 

[Nynja*]

I guess we're back to parsing what the word elite means

Sigh.........

Then tell us what the word elite means, most of us were pretty sure it meant this:

 

[ak90210]

Is Chris Osgood elite? He has 3 cup rings somehow.
Is Corey Crawford elite? He has 2 cup rings.
Is Tim Thomas elite? He has a cup ring.
Antti Niemi? cup ring too.
Cam Ward also has a cup ring.
Khabibulin also has a cup ring.

Not that I disagree with you but Thomas was super dominant and the main reason for Boston winning.

 

[G0bias]

If Beaulieu had 8 points in last 8 GP +8 let's say and Markov was 0s across the board with a -8 rating during that time. Would it be wrong for management to entertain putting Beaulieu along Subban for a short period of time?

Using Gilbert as an example is far fetched, I never said Mitchell. We're talking about middle pairing/middle 6 guys being moved a line up or down. It's certainly not the travesty people are making it out to be.

Happens all the time.

Gilbert is a depth defenseman.
DD is a depth forward. Doesn't cut it as a top 6, and unfit for the 4th line.

Therrien using him as a top 6 player doesn't make him a top 6 or ''middle 6'' which still includes the second line.

Now comparing him to Beaulieu?... That's a first, I'll leave it at that.
23 yr old, core player, with number 2D upside.
Seems legit.

 

[Rapala]

If the plan is to continue using DD as a 3rd line center i would try to trade Eller and free up cap space to get an expensive rental.

I think Carr can play the role Eller is playing on the wing. I like Eller as a 3rd line center but on the wing he doesn't have it at all.

If the plan is to continue or if the plan is to ever use DD as a 3rd line center?
His icetime had never really been below that of a 2B early in the season.
People were okay with that and the results were warranted.

I agree it's time for Eller to move on.
I have always liked his work ethic particularly in the big game but his play as a winger is hard to watch.
The Habs seem to be leaning towards a quick strike one and done type game so we may as well incorporate that on all our lines. Maybe the greater number of attempts on goal will lead to better results in the Playoffs?

 

[Whitesnake]

I guess we're back to parsing what the word elite means

Sigh.........

Well unless in your evalution, there's super elite, and ultra elite and super ultra elite....My idea of elite is that it's the utmost category. Which in the end if you say that Niemi and Lehtonen are....I wonder how you could put Holtby and Price in the same category as those 2.

 

[Nynja*]

Not that I disagree with you but Thomas was super dominant and the main reason for Boston winning.

Tim Thomas became an NHL goaltender by age 32 (which is very very late), and even then he never worked a full actual workload. His one season where he started more than 60 games was his career worst (also because that was his first full year as a NHL goalie). Either way, none of those goalies I listed would be regarded as elite.

 

[ak90210]

Tim Thomas became an NHL goaltender by age 32 (which is very very late), and even then he never worked a full actual workload. His one season where he started more than 60 games was his career worst (also because that was his first full year as a NHL goalie). Either way, none of those goalies I listed would be regarded as elite.

Thomas won his second Vezina and the Conne Smythe when the Bruins won the cup. There were no elite goalies in the NHL at the time?

Is Kurt Warner not an elite QB because he didn't make it until he was old?

 

[Kriss E]

Defending the team rightfully or wrongfully get you attacked from the negative crowd
it is a fact even if he wasnt wrong.

So you can be wrong when defending the team and somehow you think whoever would call you out on it is being negative??? What?..
How does that even make sense in your head?
There is nothing negative about calling someone who's wrong out. What are you smoking dude.

I strongly disagree with Daniel45 opinion on DD but he was ineffectively defending the team and got attack, put on ignore like if he was a Bruins fan trolling.
If that postthat I was responding is not deleted you'll understand my larger point and the context.

Actually, he wasn't defending the team at all. Quite the opposite actually, he was criticizing the team saying how it is so weak in talent that DD needs to be used on the top line. How exactly you missed that is a mystery to me.
The guy is crapping on the talent of the team, he's crapping on Plekanec and dismissing Galchenyuk, he's making a ridiculous claim that you even disagree with about DD being ''elite'', and you're understand out of all this is that the people arguing against him are being negative???? What??..lolll...Bizarro world.

 

[Rapala]

Is Chris Osgood elite? He has 3 cup rings somehow.
Is Corey Crawford elite? He has 2 cup rings.
Is Tim Thomas elite? He has a cup ring.
Antti Niemi? cup ring too.
Cam Ward also has a cup ring.
Khabibulin also has a cup ring.

Thomas was Elite that year
Ward was Elite stealing our thunder
Khabi was also super stout the year he won it.

None can be considered Elite outside of that particular window.
Timing is everything.

 

[Kriss E]

Well unless in your evalution, there's super elite, and ultra elite and super ultra elite....My idea of elite is that it's the utmost category. Which in the end if you say that Niemi and Lehtonen are....I wonder how you could put Holtby and Price in the same category as those 2.

So elite means good-average finally..

 

[Nynja*]

Thomas was Elite that year
Ward was Elite stealing our thunder
Khabi was also super stout the year he won it.

None can be considered Elite outside of that particular window.
Timing is everything.

Elite are the goaltenders that are constantly the top of their class. Cam Ward got hot at the right time. Khabibulin had a great year.

 

[Capitaine Subban*]

So you can be wrong when defending the team and somehow you think whoever would call you out on it is being negative??? What?..
How does that even make sense in your head?
There is nothing negative about calling someone who's wrong out. What are you smoking dude.


Actually, he wasn't defending the team at all. Quite the opposite actually, he was criticizing the team saying how it is so weak in talent that DD needs to be used on the top line. How exactly you missed that is a mystery to me.
The guy is crapping on the talent of the team, he's crapping on Plekanec and dismissing Galchenyuk, he's making a ridiculous claim that you even disagree with about DD being ''elite'', and you're understand out of all this is that the people arguing against him are being negative???? What??..lolll...Bizarro world.

Dude I dont smoke ! My point wasnt about Daniel45 opinions idc, my point was when
you are defending the team(or a player) you'll get attacked by the negative crowd and responding to them can lead you into trouble.
The point wasnt about Daniel45 but generally.Lyricallyricist get attacked all the time because he dare to be reasonable when ppl are bashing player x or the management.

 

[Nynja*]

Lots of people defend the team and dont get attacked. People get attacked when they say stupid things.

Mr. Jackpot got attacked like 20 min ago because he made a stupid comment about how no one was saying anything about Chucky's TOI earlier in the season when it was "behind plek and davey, and mitchell's sometimes"...when facts proved that to be false.

Daniels got attacked because he called Davey elite (which is already stupid), and then defended his claim by saying "the team is so weak, Davey is our best option as #1C", when people then used facts to prove that wrong too.

I've attacked MarioLemieux66 (and anyone else who keeps harping on the goalteners sub-.900 sv%) as if the goals scored against durring the slump were entirely the product of "ECHL caliber goaltending", completely absolving the skaters of any blame that they contributed to those goals scored against.

 

[mariolemieux66]

Lots of people defend the team and dont get attacked. People get attacked when they say stupid things.

Mr. Jackpot got attacked like 20 min ago because he made a stupid comment about how no one was saying anything about Chucky's TOI earlier in the season when it was "behind plek and davey, and mitchell's sometimes"...when facts proved that to be false.

Daniels got attacked because he called Davey elite (which is already stupid), and then defended his claim by saying "the team is so weak, Davey is our best option as #1C", when people then used facts to prove that wrong too.

I've attacked MarioLemieux66 (and anyone else who keeps harping on the goalteners sub-.900 sv%) as if the goals scored against durring the slump were entirely the product of "ECHL caliber goaltending", completely absolving the skaters of any blame that they contributed to those goals scored against.

Don't get me started please!!!!