Patches needs no DD to win games. 4-3 Habs (SO)

[Alex514]

MT bought himself a little time with last night's victory. Had his gamble failed firstly in OT (with the deployment of DD and Patches who were both terrible up to that point) and in SO with the choice Flynn and Patches, we'd be out with pitchforks!

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Conspiracy theory replacement: They did give up on the coach but Bergevin had a talk with them and said coach was safe. As such players have no choice. Don't worry though, behind the scenes players will be asking MB for a trade.

Whether the team quit on the coach or not doesn't really matter much. Personally I think we actually played pretty decently throughout the slump in the games that I saw.

It doesn't change the fact though that we've got a bad coach and should replace him.

 

[Lshap]

Whether the team quit on the coach or not doesn't really matter much. Personally I think we actually played pretty decently throughout the slump in the games that I saw.

It doesn't change the fact though that we've got a bad coach and should replace him.

Rightly or wrongly, coaches are often used as a quick-fix for slumping teams, like buying new clothes to address depression. Luckily for the Habs, they'll get the same psychological boost once Gallagher and Price come back. Without those injuries, Therrien would probably have been sacrificed already. Of course, without injuries we probably wouldn't be in this slump.

Goes to the main point about 90% of this drama being mental. Montreal has been a demoralized, frustrated, unlucky team. That mindset could become chronic and kill a season, as it has with Anaheim and Columbus, but the effect of our star goalie and biggest pest returning will have a bigger impact than the sum of their talent. Our players need to look back and see Price holding the fort.

 

[Corncob]

The worry is that Patches is about due for another one of his scoring streaks and no doubt the puck will bounce off DD at some point in the course of a number of those goals. Then DD will be impregnable as first line centre for the rest of the season.

 

[habalifeok]

Rightly or wrongly, coaches are often used as a quick-fix for slumping teams, like buying new clothes to address depression. Luckily for the Habs, they'll get the same psychological boost once Gallagher and Price come back. Without those injuries, Therrien would probably have been sacrificed already. Of course, without injuries we probably wouldn't be in this slump.

Goes to the main point about 90% of this drama being mental. Montreal has been a demoralized, frustrated, unlucky team. That mindset could become chronic and kill a season, as it has with Anaheim and Columbus, but the effect of our star goalie and biggest pest returning will have a bigger impact than the sum of their talent. Our players need to look back and see Price holding the fort.

Bang on!

 

[donghabs98]

Another thing last night proved as that scratching Andrighetto was a huge mistake. He was scoring and in his first game back he gets an assist. Hopefully Therrien finally realizes to score you need some players with offensive upside and not just player who can grind, I'm not holding my breath on that though.

 

[DangerDave]

Another thing last night proved as that scratching Andrighetto was a huge mistake. He was scoring and in his first game back he gets an assist. Hopefully Therrien finally realizes to score you need some players with offensive upside and not just player who can grind, I'm not holding my breath on that though.

Ghetto and Carr have been really nice surprises so far. I'd rather them than Byron but Byron is a good penalty killer. I think Ghetto get's sent back unfortunately as Carr has been like another Gallagher for us during this slump.

On another note, Barberio was pretty solid last night. I like him and Pateryn together as Barberio is offensive while Pateryn is the big stay at home guy. Hope they give it another shot.

 

[Plante]

Without Price it feels like we're right back in the middle of the Koivu era.

 

[Dagistitsyn]

Ghetto and Carr have been really nice surprises so far. I'd rather them than Byron but Byron is a good penalty killer. I think Ghetto get's sent back unfortunately as Carr has been like another Gallagher for us during this slump.

On another note, Barberio was pretty solid last night. I like him and Pateryn together as Barberio is offensive while Pateryn is the big stay at home guy. Hope they give it another shot.

Keep Ghetto up when Gally gets back and just move Weise down to the 4th line / scratch Flynn.

Pac-Pleks-Gally
Eller-Galchenyuk-Carr / Ghetto
Flash-DD-Ghetto / Carr
Byron-Mitchell-Weise.

Ghetto>Weise>Flynn.

Never going to happen with Therrien but that's what he should do IMO.

 

[LaP]

Ghetto and Carr have been really nice surprises so far. I'd rather them than Byron but Byron is a good penalty killer.

We have many good pkers. Eller, Plekanec, Patch, Flynn, Mitchell. Being good in that role should not land you a top 9 spot. 4th line okay but anything over that should be a no no even with injuries. Byron is a 20 points not so great defensively at 5 on 5 small player. He is like the 5'6 version of Eller. We should never see him outside of the 4th line / pker role. I mean more than half his points and goals were made on the pk ... that something i've never seen from a guy playing 13 minutes. You must not only be good on the pk you must **** at 5 on 5 too.

There's absolutely no doubt in my mind that if you need a top 9 player Carr and Ghetto are better option than Byron.

 

[LaP]

Keep Ghetto up when Gally gets back and just move Weise down to the 4th line / scratch Flynn.

Pac-Pleks-Gally
Eller-Galchenyuk-Carr / Ghetto
Flash-DD-Ghetto / Carr
Byron-Mitchell-Weise.

Ghetto>Weise>Flynn.

Never going to happen with Therrien but that's what he should do IMO.

If the plan is to continue using DD as a 3rd line center i would try to trade Eller and free up cap space to get an expensive rental.

I think Carr can play the role Eller is playing on the wing. I like Eller as a 3rd line center but on the wing he doesn't have it at all.

 

[LaP]

Without Price it feels like we're right back in the middle of the Koivu era.

Not really the middle of Koivu era had far better goalie than Condon. Not as good as Price but guys like Theo and Hackett were vastly superior to Condon.

I don't blame Condon for anything but his save % over the last 11 games is abyssal (.887 since the beginning of december). We don't score goals but even if we did it would not change anything with a goalie giving 3+ goals 75% of the games. We would win more games but would still be under 500 more than likely.

 

[PhysicX]

Rightly or wrongly, coaches are often used as a quick-fix for slumping teams, like buying new clothes to address depression. Luckily for the Habs, they'll get the same psychological boost once Gallagher and Price come back. Without those injuries, Therrien would probably have been sacrificed already. Of course, without injuries we probably wouldn't be in this slump.

Goes to the main point about 90% of this drama being mental. Montreal has been a demoralized, frustrated, unlucky team. That mindset could become chronic and kill a season, as it has with Anaheim and Columbus, but the effect of our star goalie and biggest pest returning will have a bigger impact than the sum of their talent. Our players need to look back and see Price holding the fort.

I agree on all points, but I believe there's more to it than just mental in Columbus. That team, on paper, is way better than last place in the East. Not sure whether Foligno to captaincy was a good decision, and playing Johansen on the fourth line... Mind you, I haven't watched them play, but there's more to it.

Anaheim... the West got stronger, while Anaheim stagnated and with a slow start, you're right that the mental aspect is affecting them. Getzlaf wasn't 100% healthy though to start off the season, and still seems off.

 

[DangerDave]

We have many good pkers. Eller, Plekanec, Patch, Flynn, Mitchell. Being good in that role should not land you a top 9 spot. 4th line okay but anything over that should be a no no even with injuries. Byron is a 20 points not so great defensively at 5 on 5 small player. He is like the 5'6 version of Eller. We should never see him outside of the 4th line / pker role. I mean more than half his points and goals were made on the pk ... that something i've never seen from a guy playing 13 minutes. You must not only be good on the pk you must **** at 5 on 5 too.

There's absolutely no doubt in my mind that if you need a top 9 player Carr and Ghetto are better option than Byron.

I agree completely. Sadly, MT doesn't. He puts Byron in top line roles while scratching Ghetto who is clearly better suited to it.

 

[Kriss E]

You realize many teams don't play 3 1st liners on the 1st line right?

In Anaheim they played Getzlaf, Perry and whoever they could find last year.

Of course, Getzlaf and Perry are elite players, no question but Pacioretty+Gallagher and having say Eller/DD or whatever middle 6 in there for a short stint is fine. Again though, their play needs to justify the minutes.

In Chicago they don't even play Kane and Toews on same line. In fact Andrew Shaw(on pace for 31 points) played along side Toews for 127:15 5 on 5 this year. DD played with max 54:04 under same conditions.

Yah, so relax. Stop speaking in absolutes, every coach does this. Even guys like Quenneville.

The funniest part of this is you suggested putting Semin on top line RW over Gallagher "because it might help". Semin was on a cold streak whereas I say it's okay if DD is on a hot streak.

I mean, c'mon, playing a guy if he earned it isn't a big deal. I feel same way about Galchenyuk who I've said should be rewarded for his good play. Whether or not MT is consistent isn't my fault nor does it change my opinion. Teams regularly add complimentary players on top lines all the time.

Hell, this year Cameron took Hoffman, their leading point producing and goal scoring forward off the top line to put a grinder on top line. Who was it, Dziurzynski maybe?

It happens all the time, whether you want to play in absolutes or not.

Again, to conclude: If it is not warranted or with good reason, it should not happen.

Except that ''warranted'' has NEVER happened here with DD. He simply got those minutes. He got lucky enough to get Patch-Cole in his sophomore year as a center while Plek got tough minutes with Gionta and Cammalleri. Plekanec was outplaying and outscoring DD until he lost both Gionta and then Cammalleri not even 40 games in.
Then RC decided to keep both those guys with DD and let Plek rot with scraps.
In comes Therrien, he keeps it that way for the shortened season. Plekanec and Eller outproduce DD despite it.
Next season starts, DD goes cold putting up 1a in 19gp, guess what? Promotion warranted! We decide to give him our two best wingers again. Plek-Eller's best linemate is Galchenyuk and they need to share him, did I mention he's somewhat in a sophomore slump.
Last season, again, we give him with Max. His play is uninspired and predictable. He's not fitted for the minutes he's getting, it's painfully obvious. It's been obvious for years.
This season, history repeating. He's cold, gets Patches.


So this idea that he can play on the 1st line when he warrants it is very nice, but it is not the reality. Not even close to it. He also hasn't just had short stints on the 1st line, it's been continuous. We even broke up other working trios just to get him going. So you can't really compare it to say putting Weise there. Everyone knows Weise would be a temporary fixture. Not the case with DD.
As for trying new blood like Semin, he already was a top liner, it would be in the hopes of seeing if he can rekindle that magic. Very different situation.
Or Kassian, who's got potential and would be to see if he can blossom in that spot.
Also, some teams like to put a grinder on the top line occasionally to get some sand paper out of it or to have a guy that can crash along with their stars.

As for DD, we know exactly what we have. He's a guy that should be playing around the 14min mark centering the 3rd line. It's not okay to play him on the top line unless the two centers ahead of him are injured, which has never been the case.

 

[Kriss E]

If Beaulieu had 8 points in last 8 GP +8 let's say and Markov was 0s across the board with a -8 rating during that time. Would it be wrong for management to entertain putting Beaulieu along Subban for a short period of time?

Using Gilbert as an example is far fetched, I never said Mitchell. We're talking about middle pairing/middle 6 guys being moved a line up or down. It's certainly not the travesty people are making it out to be.

Happens all the time.

Beaulieu has the potential of being a top 2, Markov is 37 and he's become quite slow.
It makes perfect sense to use him on a top pairing. Some wanted him there to start the season, myself included.
DD isn't a young player with untapped potential like Beaulieu. Comparison doesn't work.

 

[Kriss E]

All Im saying is DD has an offensive upside. The reason why we use him too much is because we lack more offence. Why is that so bloody ****ing hard to understand ?

Because you're wrong. I have proven to you how you're wrong using FACTS. You have chosen to ignore those facts and just keep repeating the same trash just because ''you watch every game and DD wowed you more''. That's your freaking argument ''you were wowed'' more by DD over the years.
That's not a freaking argument. You dare call other posters here biased after?..You're funny.
DD is our 3rd best center and he's used with our best winger. Jeez....I wonder why we lack offense
Funny, when he was used as a 3rd line center this year we didn't seem to lack any offense. Matter of fact, we were the best in the NHL. God knows how much you love facts though..

 

[Habsawce]

Because you're wrong. I have proven to you how you're wrong using FACTS. You have chosen to ignore those facts and just keep repeating the same trash just because ''you watch every game and DD wowed you more''. That's your freaking argument ''you were wowed'' more by DD over the years.
That's not a freaking argument. You dare call other posters here biased after?..You're funny.
DD is our 3rd best center and he's used with our best winger. Jeez....I wonder why we lack offense
Funny, when he was used as a 3rd line center this year we didn't seem to lack any offense. Matter of fact, we were the best in the NHL. God knows how much you love facts though..

I'm not sure what wow's me more; this post or Desharnais' famous saucer passes.

 

[Kriss E]

I'm too lazy to double check, but I'm pretty sure Plekanec wasn't in a defensive role in his 69 point season.

Correct, he was sharing defensive duties with Gomez in his 70pt season though.

 

[Kriss E]

Defending the team creates attacks from the shielded haters then the wrong answer get u infracted. I feel ur pain.

Dude, even you disagreed with him. He claims DD is an elite NHL player and that he's our best offensive center. He's 100% wrong, spare me the victim line.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Rightly or wrongly, coaches are often used as a quick-fix for slumping teams, like buying new clothes to address depression. Luckily for the Habs, they'll get the same psychological boost once Gallagher and Price come back. Without those injuries, Therrien would probably have been sacrificed already. Of course, without injuries we probably wouldn't be in this slump.

Goes to the main point about 90% of this drama being mental. Montreal has been a demoralized, frustrated, unlucky team. That mindset could become chronic and kill a season, as it has with Anaheim and Columbus, but the effect of our star goalie and biggest pest returning will have a bigger impact than the sum of their talent. Our players need to look back and see Price holding the fort.

I don't disagree with any of this.

But it's beside the point. Many people who wanted the coach fired over the course of this slump wanted him fired not because of the slump itself. We wanted him fired because he's simply a bad coach. Galchenyuk's use is inexplicable. We've gone back to DD on the first... AGAIN. Ghetto has been out of the lineup despite playing well and this coach makes adjustments for the worse.

He's better than he was last year but it doesn't make him a good coach. Galchenyuk's simply the most stark example of how bad a coach he is. 14 mins a game... at what point do we just admit that this guy has no idea what he's doing?

 

[Doc McKenna]

I don't disagree with any of this.

But it's beside the point. Many people who wanted the coach fired over the course of this slump wanted him fired not because of the slump itself. We wanted him fired because he's simply a bad coach. Galchenyuk's use is inexplicable. We've gone back to DD on the first... AGAIN. Ghetto has been out of the lineup despite playing well and this coach makes adjustments for the worse.

He's better than he was last year but it doesn't make him a good coach. Galchenyuk's simply the most stark example of how bad a coach he is. 14 mins a game... at what point do we just admit that this guy has no idea what he's doing?

This^ its the reverting back to the same gripes we had last year. Slump is just accelerating things. Like you mentioned, DD isn't so much the problem as his usage is. Last night will give him another 10 games with minimal impact at 18 minutes a night while AG should be getting those for development-oh wait I'm not an NHL coach and DD is Elite. Any excuse to not use AG more, can be filed under g for garbage.

 

[Capitaine Subban*]

Dude, even you disagreed with him. He claims DD is an elite NHL player and that he's our best offensive center. He's 100% wrong, spare me the victim line.

Defending the team rightfully or wrongfully get you attacked from the negative crowd
it is a fact even if he wasnt wrong.

 

[FireBurningBin]

Defending the team rightfully or wrongfully get you attacked from the negative crowd
it is a fact even if he wasnt wrong.

That doesn't excuse you from criticism if you say something that is completely off base. There is no evidence that Desharnais is a better offensive player than Plekanec the last few seasons, even when you limit that to offensive production with Pacioretty, Plekanec has him beat. The second premise is that Desharnais is more effective than Galchenyuk, and while there could be arguments made the last few years, this is demonstrably not the case this season.

There is a difference between defending what MB/MT are doing or trying to see things from their perspective and making a statement to vindicate them which is completely off base.

 

[Nynja*]

Defending the team rightfully or wrongfully get you attacked from the negative crowd
it is a fact even if he wasnt wrong.

Dude, lol
he could have called Davey a good player, he could have said "he proved to everyone he belonged in the NHL after everyone last year said he belongs in the AHL"...there were so many different ways he could have proped up Davey that would have not caused mass ridicule here, but instead he opted to call him ELITE.