Panarin - Malkin - Kucherov vs Ovechkin - Datsyuk - Kovalchuk vs Bure - Fedorov - Mogilny

[Pierre Larouche]

He was so amazing that he never once finished top 15 in hart voting. Ok you're going to say that's voted by the media. In that case, Mogilny is the only player listed who never finished top 5 in pts (even after excluding Gretzky and Lemieux). In a poll full of ross, hart, Lindsay winners, guys with multiple top 5 pt finishes, etc sorry but he sticks out like a sore thumb.

Mogilny was a brilliant player.

 

[SensFan4lyfe]

Mogilny seems to have some kind of hockeycard or videogame star-aura attached to his name.

He has one outlier season in which he was still only 7th in scoring. Was he that good defensively?

Here’s his rank in P/G throughout his career:

Alexander Mogilny

Entered league at age 20

89/90 142

90/91 29

92/93 13

93/94 4

94/95 19

95/96 9

96/97 29

97/98 30

98/99 51

99/00 68

00/01 14

01/02 34

02/03 11

03/04 40

04/05 NA (lockout)

05/06: 113

Retired at age 37


15 seasons included in survey.

Noticeable:

Not very. Elite (4th and 9th) producer in 2 out of his 14 seasons. Mostly hovered between 11th and 40th+ place throughout his career.

you obviously never saw him play lol

 

[ViD]

I view them:

Ovechkin >~ Bure > Panarin
Malkin >~ Fedorov >~ Datsyuk
Mogilny ~ Kucherov >~ Kovalchuk

I don’t see how Mogilny is better than Kuch given the fact that Kucherov even broke Mogilny’s record

 

[Deas]

you obviously never saw him play lol

What a factual, nuanced comparison with those he is put up against

This context is not about if he was very good or not, of course he was, but this comparison group isn’t exactly weak.

lol

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Well, there’s something in it…

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I think a part of the hype was due to him being the first Russian NHL superstar coming over, and the circumstances under which he came over, I think that attached to us who where around following hockey at the time.

Bure (94) - Fedorov (99) - Mogilny (86)

 

[hamzarocks]

OV > Bure > Panarin
Malkin >= Datsyuk = Fedorov
Kucherov >= Kovy > Mogilny

Line 3 is an easy no as Mogilny is the worst player listed. Bure is clearly behind OV. Fedorov can be argued as the best C but it's basically a wash.

Line 1 or 2. Went with line 2 because OV is the best player listed and the gap between him and Panarin is bigger than any potential gap Malkin and Kucherov have over Datsyuk and Kovy.



Mogilny never once finished even finished top 15 in hart voting, never was a 1st AST and best pts finish was 7th. How is he equal to a ross/hart/lindsay winning Kucherov?

Is this everyone at their peaks?

B/c if it's career wise then kucherov is shaping and Malkin will be much further ahead of Kovy and Dats

Peak OV is the best but peak Kuch also amazing and not much off.

 

[Zine]

I don’t see how Mogilny is better than Kuch given the fact that Kucherov even broke Mogilny’s record

When Mogilny was bothered to put forth 100% effort (peak), he was much better than Kucherov.
Next to Lemieux/Gretzky/Jagr, he was probably the most innately talented player in the 90s.
Unfortunately his play resembled his personality; one of the most laid-back and nonchalant persons you'd ever meet.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

Is this everyone at their peaks?

B/c if it's career wise then kucherov is shaping and Malkin will be much further ahead of Kovy and Dats

Peak OV is the best but peak Kuch also amazing and not much off.

At peaks.

I was only comparing/ranking the respective positions, not all 9 players.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

When Mogilny was bothered to put forth 100% effort (peak), he was much better than Kucherov.
Next to Lemieux/Gretzky/Jagr, he was probably the most innately talented player in the 90s.
Unfortunately his play resembled his personality; one of the most laid-back and nonchalant persons you'd ever meet.

Peak Mogilny: 7th in pts (33 behind 1st), 2nd AST, 0 hart votes

Peak Kucherov: 1st in pts (12 ahead of 2nd), 1st AST, hart, Lindsay

Not sure why people like you keep repeating the bolded when there is absolutely zero evidence to support it. Well other than "he was so talented, you had to see him play". Who cares how "talented" Mogilny was, he didn't accomplish anything. Was never a 1st AST, never top 15 in hart voting, never came close to a ross, hart or lindsay. And yes I saw his whole career.

 

[tabness]

Peak Mogilny: 7th in pts (33 behind 1st), 2nd AST, 0 hart votes

Peak Kucherov: 1st in pts (12 ahead of 2nd), 1st AST, hart, Lindsay

Not sure why people like you keep repeating the bolded when there is absolutely zero evidence to support it. Well other than "he was so talented, you had to see him play". Who cares how "talented" Mogilny was, he didn't accomplish anything. Was never a 1st AST, never top 15 in hart voting, never came close to a ross, hart or lindsay. And yes I saw his whole career.

Accomplishments are far more tied up to external factors and contexts than individual talent. They are a terrible way to evaluate players across eras or even within an era. Nobody just goes by junior accomplishments and stats in drafting...

Pavel Bure is the most accomplished player in the nineties group by the typical Ovechkin fan standard with some goal scoring titles, he's also the third wheel to Fedorov and Mogilny.

If you want to dock them for being unmotivated or injured, fine, that's actually fair enough.

I'll continue to dock the new NHL guys for playing in a powderpuff league though. Have no doubt that Bure/Fedorov/Mogilny are well suited to dominate this era.

 

[GoldenKnight]

Ovechkin line bodies the other 2 ainec

Uh huh.

 

[Bouboumaster]

It's the Ovechkin trio, followed by the Malkin's trio


Federov's trio is, IMO, easily the last in terms of talent

 

[tfwnogf]

Uh huh.

implying 1 clip means anything lmao

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Choice 3 should have zero votes

 

[biturbo19]

I think Panarin-Malkin-Kucherov probably have the best potential chemistry, and that swings it for me. All three guys are pretty balanced as both shooters and passers, and seem to play the game in a pretty similar way.

 

[wetcoast]

Bure - Fedorov - Mogilny because Fedorov was very easy to play with and fills a lot of holes. The first line would score a ton and give up a lot of goals against too. The second line has three players who need the puck on their stick to be effective offensively, unless it's the 2010s version of Ovechkin, in which case I'm not very impressed with him in general. The third line fits together most easily with Bure scoring the goals and providing a huge threat off the rush, Fedorov doing the dirty work and chipping in elite offence as well when needed, and Mogilny as the playmaker.

This was my first thought as well and at first I thought maybe because I as thinking back on how good that line was at such a young age together but they really are the "best Line."

 

[Dr Beinfest]

It is amazing how little people respect Kucherov. There’s two types of predictable bias - present bias, wheee everyone thinks what they see now is obviously better (McDavid is obviously better then Gretzky), and then nostalgic bias where their experiences in the good ol days were obviously better than now (Gretzky is obviously better than McDavid). But I actually think it’s covid that has ultimately made people not realize how amazing Kucherov (and Panarin) are. That line, with Malkin, is so incredibly complete.

 

[JFedol]

It is amazing how little people respect Kucherov. There’s two types of predictable bias - present bias, wheee everyone thinks what they see now is obviously better (McDavid is obviously better then Gretzky), and then nostalgic bias where their experiences in the good ol days were obviously better than now (Gretzky is obviously better than McDavid). But I actually think it’s covid that has ultimately made people not realize how amazing Kucherov (and Panarin) are. That line, with Malkin, is so incredibly complete.

I know I'm late, but yup, he's criminally underrated. 2nd in PPG after McDavid going back to 2016-17, the GOAT playoff performer of our generation with 30ptb2b playoff runs and 160 playoff points after Geno and Sid, yet he still somehow gets zero respect lol. He's been the 2nd best player in the league for the past 4 years IMO along with Drasaitl,

 

[Mister NJ Devil]

OV > Bure > Panarin
Malkin >= Datsyuk = Fedorov
Kucherov >= Kovy > Mogilny

Line 3 is an easy no as Mogilny is the worst player listed. Bure is clearly behind OV. Fedorov can be argued as the best C but it's basically a wash.

Line 1 or 2. Went with line 2 because OV is the best player listed and the gap between him and Panarin is bigger than any potential gap Malkin and Kucherov have over Datsyuk and Kovy.



Mogilny never once finished even finished top 15 in hart voting, never was a 1st AST and best pts finish was 7th. How is he equal to a ross/hart/lindsay winning Kucherov?

You could have saved yourself and others some time by leading your post off with 'Im too young to have watched the third option play, but...'

Mogilny is as skilled as anyone else on this list. Your feeble attempt at discrediting that with nothing but stats is evidence enough you never watched him (or Bure or Fedorov for that matter)

If the sport was based on nothing but numbers and played by robots, then youd have a point. But you dont. You look through the lens of statistics to 'attempt' to pass judgement on a player; which would be fine if you stated that and then didnt double and triple down on it.

Yeah, the guy with more goals in one season than anyone not named Hull, Gretzky, and Lemieux is less skilled than Artemi f***ing Panarin lmfao. You youngsters make me laugh

It is amazing how little people respect Kucherov. There’s two types of predictable bias - present bias, wheee everyone thinks what they see now is obviously better (McDavid is obviously better then Gretzky), and then nostalgic bias where their experiences in the good ol days were obviously better than now (Gretzky is obviously better than McDavid). But I actually think it’s covid that has ultimately made people not realize how amazing Kucherov (and Panarin) are. That line, with Malkin, is so incredibly complete.

Panarin is, by far, the weakest candidate out of all these options. As in hes multiple tiers below everyone and its almost disrespectful to include him

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

You could have saved yourself and others some time by leading your post off with 'Im too young to have watched the third option play, but...'

Mogilny is as skilled as anyone else on this list. Your feeble attempt at discrediting that with nothing but stats is evidence enough you never watched him (or Bure or Fedorov for that matter)

If the sport was based on nothing but numbers and played by robots, then youd have a point. But you dont. You look through the lens of statistics to 'attempt' to pass judgement on a player; which would be fine if you stated that and then didnt double and triple down on it.

Yeah, the guy with more goals in one season than anyone not named Hull, Gretzky, and Lemieux is less skilled than Artemi f***ing Panarin lmfao. You youngsters make me laugh


Panarin is, by far, the weakest candidate out of all these options. As in hes multiple tiers below everyone and its almost disrespectful to include him

I've seen them all play, but sure tell me more about my life lol. I don't care who is the most "skilled". I care about what they accomplished. Mogilny accomplished jack shit compared to the other players listed. All that skill but couldn't even finish top 5 in pts one time in his entire career. Definitely better than ross/hart/lindsay winners lol.

Raw goal totals don't mean anything when comparing players from different eras. Even youngsters understand that. Unless you're one of those people who think Nicholls peaked higher as a goal scorer than OV, Howe, Bobby Hull, Bure, etc because he scored 70 goals and they never did right?

 

[EdJovanovski]

Ovechkin-Datsyuk-Kravtsov

 

[Mister NJ Devil]

I've seen them all play, but sure tell me more about my life lol. I don't care who is the most "skilled". I care about what they accomplished. Mogilny accomplished jack shit compared to the other players listed. All that skill but couldn't even finish top 5 in pts one time in his entire career. Definitely better than ross/hart/lindsay winners lol.

Raw goal totals don't mean anything when comparing players from different eras. Even youngsters understand that. Unless you're one of those people who think Nicholls peaked higher as a goal scorer than OV, Howe, Bobby Hull, Bure, etc because he scored 70 goals and they never did right?

Nobody cares what you care about. Your opinion based on stats doesnt dictate if they were good or not

And thats cute - in one breathe, discount Mogilny based on stats and then in the next imply a player such as Nichols couldnt have been better than the greats based on his stats

So you choose to follow stats when it suits you but then make counter arguments that go against stats. You walk conversations into circles because you have no direction, your opinion is entirely based on stats. If you actually did watch themplay as you claim, you wouldnt be arguing that Mogilny is the obviously-worst player, consistently making it seem like its undebatable.

But yeah, keep thinking Artemi Panarin is better than Alexander Mogilny lmfao. You hold those stats you love so dearly tight as Panarin scores 2 points in a series to a division rival.

'I dont care who is more skilled' - yeah, that was real evident when you said Mogilny was the worst player of the group. Remind me what else matters in hockey besides skill (or is it Panarin's incredible stature, coming in at 30+ lbs lighter than Mogilny?)

Mark Messier is the 2nd greatest player ever because thats what his stats and awards say. You got it boss

 

[EXTRAS]

OV > Bure > Panarin
Malkin >= Datsyuk = Fedorov
Kucherov >= Kovy > Mogilny

Line 3 is an easy no as Mogilny is the worst player listed. Bure is clearly behind OV. Fedorov can be argued as the best C but it's basically a wash.

Line 1 or 2. Went with line 2 because OV is the best player listed and the gap between him and Panarin is bigger than any potential gap Malkin and Kucherov have over Datsyuk and Kovy.



Mogilny never once finished even finished top 15 in hart voting, never was a 1st AST and best pts finish was 7th. How is he equal to a ross/hart/lindsay winning Kucherov?

76 goals in 77 games is pretty insane

 

[tom_servo]

76 goals in 77 games is pretty insane

Season was an anomaly though. That number only tied the league lead (Lemieux was on pace for 96) and Mogilny trailed his teammate in scoring by 20+ points (though not a big deal IMO). He was a top star on several teams during the dead pick era for the most part, but not among league leaders.

I think Mogilny holds his own in this scenario but the eye-popping 76 goals flatters his overall career a bit.

 

[Nadal On Clay]

Won’t disagree with anyone saying 1 or 2. #1 has the slight advantage offensively but #2 has a guy that can actually defend in Datsyuk. Good poll.

Ovechkin > Bure > Panarin
Malkin > Fedorov > Datsyuk
Kucherov > Kovalchuk > Mogilny