Overlooked American with CHL offer
- Thread starter Even Strength
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Firecracker
Registered User
- Jul 3, 2015
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I have never actually watched a Canadian Jr. A or B game. This may seem like a ridiculous question, but what would you say is the major difference between those levels and Major Junior? I would imagine the straight line speed of the games are pretty similar and that the skill level is the main difference? Is there more or less fighting in Jr. A and B than Major Junior? Tier 2 and 3 Juniors in US is filled with over-agers, unlike Tier 1 and Major Junior, and they can be like Slap Shot. Is that also the case in Jr. A and B? If one has the opportunity to play Major Junior, besides retaining NCAA eligibility, is there any reason to play Jr. A or B instead?
In terms of quality, there's a little step down from Jr A to Jr B but it's not significant. Depending on which Jr B loop you're looking at, some are better than others. The GOJHL is considered the best of the bunch. There is definitely more fighting in Hr B but it's nothing too extreme.
It's a good development league for those who aren't necessarily ready to step into OHL action.
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OMG67
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- Sep 1, 2013
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There are many Canadian players that prefer the NCAA route over Major Junior for various reasons. Those players typically play Jr. A.
I'm in Ottawa. The Jr. A loop in my area is pretty solid. It isn't the best in Ontario, I'd probably say it's #2. Fighting is discouraged as it is in many reputable leagues now.
The key is to go to a team that encourages the younger players development. Many of the 16 and 17 year old players in Jr A are trying to earn NCAA offers. Some are current OHL prospects. Others are just playing because it is the highest level they can play and want o compete.
The drop off between Major Junior and Jr A is pretty big. The drop off between Jr A and Jr B is not nearly as big.
I would say that the USHL is probably positioned (skil wise) between the CHL and Canadian Jr A. It would be similar to where the KHL fits between the NHL and the AHL professionally.
But, as was mentioned previously, it depends on what league we are talking about. Another poster mentioned the BCHL in British Columbia. That league is highly regarded as well with loads of Western kids coming out of there to NCAA programs and on to the NHL.
Most OHL draft picks that don't make their OHL team play Jr A with a few going Jr B. I am not sure exactly what the politics are behind eligibility to move around are. I know that there are some territory rights and even some drafting. I know kids move around a bit to gain flexibility too. Of course, each OHL team has their own development team. That is why I recommend you speak to your OHL team to see what the options are. Usually they have some leverage with respect to playing time and development of their prospects.
My view is that if the coach thinks he can play Major Junior, who am I to question it? He's going to have to invest time and money into my son's development and he seems excited to do so. Like I've said, college coaches aren't exactly knocking down our door right now--they're not really in the business of developing players anyhow--and to have a highly-regarded Major Junior coach actually really want him is much more encouraging than the prospect of battling through lower Jr. levels for a few years hoping to get an NCAA bid. You never know what could happen in that time.
The prevailing view here is that we are crazy to even think about letting him go the CHL route but, as I've said, we're not so hung up on NCAA. He's a smart kid and can get into college without a hockey coach's influence. If he gives it his best shot and doesn't go any further then he can either say that's that or he can play CIS if he still wants to lace 'em up. My biggest concern, honestly, is that as a 16 year old I don't really want him having to fight too many of the kids who are past their expiration date. He's a big kid and clearly would be tested.
OMG67
Registered User
- Sep 1, 2013
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Fighting is DONE. Twenty years ago, you'd easily see at least one per game. Now you see one every five games or so. The lug heads are gone now too. So, if you don't go looking for fights, there is no reason to ever worry about having to fight.
Someone else may correct me but I thought the education packages covered tuition for US based schools if you are an American as opposed to having to go the CIS route. Going CIS is good if you want to continue to play hockey though.
Kingpin794
Smart A** In A Jersey
I think there's a geographic restriction to that. Something like within so many miles. Like you can't try to use your package at a school in California is you played in the OHL. Basically think of schools near where your from. I know guys that only played a year or so in Saginaw but used the education package at the local D2 school.
But, I'm don't have a kid in the OHL, nor do I have an extensive knowledge of education packages or player contracts. This is just from what I believe I remember from past events. As others have mentioned, you should take advice from the advisors you've dealt with already as well as your and your sons intuition pertaining to the situation.
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bobber
Registered User
It might be down in the CHL but you could still get pounded out in the NHL if that is the final destination. They still employ some tough characters that can skate and fight. Recently in an OHL game I saw an older player hit a rookie with a clean hit and the tough guy from the opposing squad got the nod from the coach flew over the boards and jumped the offending player throwing punches from behind. Still happens if there is a need.
I didn't mention earlier but if he's only 16 years old then why not finish out the year with the team he is on then come back to the camp that he performed so well at and try to join the OHL team next season?
If they wanted him this past camp then they will surely give him a long look next time around as well. He's still very young.
If they wanted him this past camp then they will surely give him a long look next time around as well. He's still very young.
At this point that's what we're thinking about for the rest of this year and they've already told us he has a spot next year if he comes, which is looking more and more likely.
I think it would be smart to stay put for the rest of the year. Not to sound negative, but don't put all your belief in what a coach or GM says. If a coach or GM believes someone might play in the league, it really doesn't cost them anything to sign said player---if player doesn't make it in future or possibly hurts themselves, it costs the team nothing. Now I am not saying that teams would use cards to sign players they don't think will play in the league, so the fact they want to sign him is a good thing, but don't take any words as gospel.
Again, any education package can be negotiated. What a team will usually do is take the closest university to their residence. Cost for tuition plus books and fees times four and usually add a small percentage to that number for increases each year in tuition. Most players that graduate OHL also get scholarships from CIS universities, so that money could be put towards living expenses if you are out of town.
Arm your child with as much information about the two routes, and ask him what road he prefers. Worst thing you can do would be to force him to do what the parents want. I have been through the entire process twice, you can PM me if you would like any info. A good advisor would help obtain all the info to compare, but again, take your childs wishes as the best possible route.
OMG67
Registered User
- Sep 1, 2013
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We talk a lot about the kids that go on to play NHL and carve out careers in the AHL and then transition to non-playing hockey careers.
However, I admire the kids like Dan Tudin the most. Dan was a 16th round draft pick by the 67's. I believe his grandfather was Connie Tudin so Killer picked him out of respect for the friendship they had in the past. Dan made the team out of training camp as the de facto 22nd player. He didn't play much in year one. Didn't play much in year two. That was back when they drafted 16 year olds in the first three or four rounds and then 17 year olds after that. So Dan was drafted as a 17 year old.
In his 19 year old season he had an opportunity at training camp to line up with Dan Tessier and BEn Gustavson. They clicked and formed a formidable 2nd line and carried that into an OA season.
He left the 67's and attended Dalhousie University. He graduated four years later with an Honours Degree and went on to play three years in the ECHL. HE left the ECHL for Italy and Is now playing his 11th season over there.
To me, that is what Major Junior hockey is all about. Play four years, then translate that into a four year honours Degree and start your adult life off armed with advanced hockey skills and a Degree.
This should be the goal of every Major Junior player. If another opportunity presents itself like an NHL Contract then do it but if it doesn't, I don't understand why players toil in the ECHL for crap money and abandon their scholarships.
However, I admire the kids like Dan Tudin the most. Dan was a 16th round draft pick by the 67's. I believe his grandfather was Connie Tudin so Killer picked him out of respect for the friendship they had in the past. Dan made the team out of training camp as the de facto 22nd player. He didn't play much in year one. Didn't play much in year two. That was back when they drafted 16 year olds in the first three or four rounds and then 17 year olds after that. So Dan was drafted as a 17 year old.
In his 19 year old season he had an opportunity at training camp to line up with Dan Tessier and BEn Gustavson. They clicked and formed a formidable 2nd line and carried that into an OA season.
He left the 67's and attended Dalhousie University. He graduated four years later with an Honours Degree and went on to play three years in the ECHL. HE left the ECHL for Italy and Is now playing his 11th season over there.
To me, that is what Major Junior hockey is all about. Play four years, then translate that into a four year honours Degree and start your adult life off armed with advanced hockey skills and a Degree.
This should be the goal of every Major Junior player. If another opportunity presents itself like an NHL Contract then do it but if it doesn't, I don't understand why players toil in the ECHL for crap money and abandon their scholarships.
100% correct--get your education, CIS hockey is very good hockey---then go try whatever you want, Europe etc and when you are done hockey you have a fully paid for degree to start the rest of your life. If you do that in reverse heavy odds are you will never go to school as you have been out too long and you have to pay for it.
EvenSteven
Registered User
- Sep 3, 2009
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I'm not a Dave Branch fan - not even a little bit. But that is exactly what he preaches when it comes to the OHL and education packages an their value.
If the above is the worst that could happen signing and making an OHL team, then that's pretty good if you ask me.
It is very good if used properly, and hopefully by 20 years old a kid realizes what his ceiling may be. It is great to do everything to try and achieve your dreams--but as OMG stated, wasting away in the ECHL for years straight out of junior is not a good life choice. I know many that have done that and are done hockey at 24-25 years old---then what do they do?
knowescape
Made you look
ohloutsider
Registered User
Or apparently someone is wise enough not to answer it
Point coming on here was for advice, not to boast or be roasted.
knowescape
Made you look
Or apparently someone is wise enough not to answer it
Meh it's not that hard to figure out when you see the name Even Strength used to have and spend five minutes on Google.
ohloutsider
Registered User
Not trying to start anything - I wouldn't have answered the question either.
ohloutsider
Registered User
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