third man in
Registered User
I think he's saying even in a so called slump, Ovie still puts up respectable numbers.There's stats and then there's watching the games, so there's that too.
I think he's saying even in a so called slump, Ovie still puts up respectable numbers.There's stats and then there's watching the games, so there's that too.
Sure but there was definitely a tone to as if I'm wrong, which I'm not. He scored 2 goals in each Tampa game (the 2 games he played extremely well in) and one goal in the other 12. He picked up a bunch of secondaries and really wasn't driving play at all during the stretch. Defensively he's mostly been upright in which I can only assume he's been conserving energy.I think he's saying even in a so called slump, Ovie still puts up respectable numbers.
He is the greatest goal scorer of all time.
In the 15 years since he entered the league, he's won it 8 times...Bobby Hull won it 7 times fwiw. I think Ovie could win it 10 times given his level of performance and age.
who else has won it during the Ovechkin era?
Crosby x2
Stamkos x2
Cheechoo
Lecavalier
Perry
That is pretty stiff competition.
Actually, it isn't. That list just shows how suspect elite goal scoring has been since Ovie came into the league. To put it another way:
Crosby: Two seasons of 40+ goals
Stamkos: Five seasons of 40+ goals
Cheechoo: One season of 40+ goals
Lecavalier: Two seasons of 40+ goals
Corey Perry: Two seasons of 40+ goals
Stamkos is the only one I would consider an elite goal scorer.
I consider Ovie to be one of the best goalscorers of all time, top 5 easily, but his competition for the Richard Trophy has been suspect at best. He hasn't had any consistent competition. Especially over the past 6-7 years.
Should be interesting to see if some of the new young guns can step up to the plate and challenge Ovie.
Players are more talented on the whole, your point regarding competition is meaningless, players aren't competing against each other nightly because it's a competition against the league/different teams every night and the truth is scoring is down. That has nothing to do with the players and everything to do with rule changes and goalie equipment. Bossy wouldn't get 30 in today's NHL and I stand by that.Actually, it isn't. That list just shows how suspect elite goal scoring has been since Ovie came into the league. To put it another way:
Crosby: Two seasons of 40+ goals
Stamkos: Five seasons of 40+ goals
Cheechoo: One season of 40+ goals
Lecavalier: Two seasons of 40+ goals
Corey Perry: Two seasons of 40+ goals
Stamkos is the only one I would consider an elite goal scorer.
I consider Ovie to be one of the best goalscorers of all time, top 5 easily, but his competition for the Richard Trophy has been suspect at best. He hasn't had any consistent competition. Especially over the past 6-7 years.
Should be interesting to see if some of the new young guns can step up to the plate and challenge Ovie.
Actually, it isn't. That list just shows how suspect elite goal scoring has been since Ovie came into the league. To put it another way:
Crosby: Two seasons of 40+ goals
Stamkos: Five seasons of 40+ goals
Cheechoo: One season of 40+ goals
Lecavalier: Two seasons of 40+ goals
Corey Perry: Two seasons of 40+ goals
Stamkos is the only one I would consider an elite goal scorer.
I consider Ovie to be one of the best goalscorers of all time, top 5 easily, but his competition for the Richard Trophy has been suspect at best. He hasn't had any consistent competition. Especially over the past 6-7 years.
Should be interesting to see if some of the new young guns can step up to the plate and challenge Ovie.
You are looking at it backwards.Thank you for saying this. I agree that Ovechkin is a top 5 all time goal scorer but people don’t talk enough about how weak his competition usually is for the Rocket.
You are looking at it backwards.
The competition is not weak. Guys trying to prevent the goals from being scored are much better. Both in the net, and on defense. They are phenomenal athletes. The days of best skaters not wanting to play D in youth hockey are gone. Kids start specializing at 6-8 years old. Same for goalies. On my kids' teams (10 y.o. and 16 y.o.), the goalies are the biggest and most athletically gifted boys. Wake up and smell the coffee. The skill on offense hasn't gone done. The skill on defensive side of the game has skyrocketed.
But all that is irrelevant when comparing his competition? They all face the same players don't they?You are looking at it backwards.
The competition is not weak. Guys trying to prevent the goals from being scored are much better. Both in the net, and on defense. They are phenomenal athletes. The days of best skaters not wanting to play D in youth hockey are gone. Kids start specializing at 6-8 years old. Same for goalies. On my kids' teams (10 y.o. and 16 y.o.), the goalies are the biggest and most athletically gifted boys. Wake up and smell the coffee. The skill on offense hasn't gone done. The skill on defensive side of the game has skyrocketed.
Or is it because save % has been extremely high in the NHL during his career and Ovechkin is so good that it might look weak because of how dominant he has been?Thank you for saying this. I agree that Ovechkin is a top 5 all time goal scorer but people don’t talk enough about how weak his competition usually is for the Rocket.
Of course, it is in no way his fault. He’s dealt the hand he is dealt and in this case, it’s a good hand. But too often, some lose their minds over the number of his Rockets and then poo poo other great goal scorers who didn’t lead in goals because some guys named Gretzky and Lemieux were playing during their time.
Because you can't compare totals from then to now, Bossy wouldn't put up 30 in today's game I'm sorry. There are not 5 greater goal scorers in the history of the NHL better than Ovechkin now and nothing supports it. His inevitable march into the elite total levels that are inflated comparatively with todays will make no doubt.Thank you for saying this. I agree that Ovechkin is a top 5 all time goal scorer but people don’t talk enough about how weak his competition usually is for the Rocket.
Of course, it is in no way his fault. He’s dealt the hand he is dealt and in this case, it’s a good hand. But too often, some lose their minds over the number of his Rockets and then poo poo other great goal scorers who didn’t lead in goals because some guys named Gretzky and Lemieux were playing during their time.
The league isn't more competitive, it doesn't suddenly have better players than 5 years ago. Scoring is up because of rule changes and goalie equipment not because Auston Matthews joined the NHL.But all that is irrelevant when comparing his competition? They all face the same players don't they?
In my opinion, his competition has definitely been weaker than in the mid 80's and 90's. But the amount of goals he has scored in this era is amazing (and that is where your rant might come in handy).
Edit: Also the last two Rockets have been during a highly increasing competitive league. So that make them even more impressive than some of his earlier wins.
I hate the guy but you just can't deny he's one of, if not the best goalscorer of all time.
I can see how his exuberance would rub people the wrong way. Doesn't bother me personally, he's been my favourite player since his rookie season. But there is definitely a crowd out there that prefers the "act like you've been there before" approach to the game. Couple that with a few questionable hits over the yearsGenuinely curious: what do you hate about him? As a player He's super involved in the community, has made working with kids with special needs one of his top priorities, genuinely loves playing the game of hockey and brings a fun personality to the sport, etc. I can understand hating Tom Wilson if he's not on your team but I don't really get the Ovechkin hate.
That doesn't make sense, sorry. Yes, they all face the same players. Better defensive players than in the 80s and 90s. Much better goaltending. Other players would be scoring at a higher rates had they played in a different era. McDavid, Kane and Kucherov are wizards. They'd be scoring 60+ goals each in the 80s. Just for reference:But all that is irrelevant when comparing his competition? They all face the same players don't they?
In my opinion, his competition has definitely been weaker than in the mid 80's and 90's. But the amount of goals he has scored in this era is amazing (and that is where your rant might come in handy).
A lot of people here struggle with the concept of relativity I've noticed. It's irrelevant how many goals are being scored. Some guy said Ovechkin's competition has been weak, after which several users starts driveling about goals per game, and other i numbers. That has nothing to do with the actual level of competition.The league isn't more competitive, it doesn't suddenly have better players than 5 years ago. Scoring is up because of rule changes and goalie equipment not because Auston Matthews joined the NHL.
Imagine Ovechkin shooting against goalies in the late 70-80's? He'd put up 80 a year.
These guys were amazing, no doubt. But here is the flip side. The dead puck era killed a lot of offensive talent in the league. It became devalued. The trend continued for another 20 years. Guys that could have been great did not have a chance to play the free-wheeling game.In the early 90's, you had guys like Lemieux, Hull, Bure, Selanne, Mogilny in the top tier, and hall of fame goalscorers like Robitaille, Andreychuck, Shanahan, Gartner, Bondra, Neely, LeClair , Kariya, in the next. On top of this guys like Yzerman, Roenick, LaFontaine, Fedorov, Lindros, Jagr, Turgeon, Sakic, Tkachuk etc were hovering within the vicinity of the top.