Out of Town - Washington Capitals Stanley Cup Champions! Edition

[nhlfan9191]

Ok buddy check this out.

His amazing seasons that gave as all hope was the 12-13 season where he got 30 points in 46 GP.

He played a ton with Chucky on his left wing that season.

Then the 13-14 arrives and:

He gets 26 points in 77 GP and where there was that amazing mythical EGG line...

What happened there?

What exactly are those opportunities for you? , Therrien was supposed to put him on the first line or what?

I actually somewhat agree with you on something. His production didn’t warrant getting first line minutes. But there should’ve been a consistent rotation going on between Desharnais/Galchenyuk/Eller for a top 6 center role. I would’ve just removed Desharnais completely out of the equation as he was useless in the bottom 6 and replaced him with a 2nd/3rd line tweener who could handle both roles while we developed the kids. Their development was being stunted because they were constantly being blocked and it wasn’t until Galchenyuk scored 30 goals that Therrien got put on the spot for his deployment of minutes. I don’t think Eller is some superstar, but I do think there was potential squandered with him as well.

 

[Lshap]

Development plays a huge role in how a player turns out, so even if Eller never scores 50 points, it doesn't mean he couldn't have if we had used him better when he was younger.

If Eller had gone from 60-points to 30, there'd be reason to wonder what screwed up his potential. But it's impossible to debate something that never happened. I don't say that to be argumentative. In the absence of actually accomplishing something, all we have are imaginary scenarios of how that 'something' might've happened. It's an interesting thought experiment, nothing more.

 

[Sorinth]

If Eller had gone from 60-points to 30, there'd be reason to wonder what screwed up his potential. But it's impossible to debate something that never happened. I don't say that to be argumentative. In the absence of actually accomplishing something, all we have are imaginary scenarios of how that 'something' might've happened. It's an interesting thought experiment, nothing more.

There's obviously no way to know for sure, but how is it any different then talking about who to pick on draft day. We can't be sure about any of the prospects, but we can make educated guesses, provide the reasoning and debate the merits.

Eller's been debated to death already, but the argument is just as true for Galchenyuk. Even if Galchenyuk never hits 70 points, you'll have a hard time convincing me that with a proper coaching/development he wouldn't have been able to hit those numbers.

EDIT: And for the record from 24/03/2012 to 04/12/2013 Eller played a total of 82 games and put up 48 points in that span. So you can say he didn't go from a 60 point player to a 30 point player, but 50 point player to 30 point player. Yeah pretty much, so if you factor in regular PP time, 60 points isn't as crazy as it first sounds.

 

[MaxDummy]

What exactly are those opportunities for you? , Therrien was supposed to put him on the first line or what?

Why not? At least try it.. we had Desharnais there for 5 years ffs.. I'm not saying they should've played Eller 25 minutes a game every night.

You still havent shown me where he failed everytime he had an opportunity... and you wont because he never did.

You wont see me saying he should be tried in a top 6 at the expense of Kuznetsov or Backstrom because they are miles better than him, but DESHARNAIS, REALLY?

 

[MaxDummy]

DD could have been a decent 2nd line C if we had a real 1C in front of him, a guy like Kopi or Giroux or Getzlaf/Carter.

Yup, thats why hes out of the league at 31 years old.. We knew Eller would at worst stay a third liner. .why not try To see if there is more in him? We all knew Desharnais had To have prime offensive minutes or else he was beyond useless

 

[OldCraig71]

DD could have been a decent second line center for us!

 

[MaxDummy]

His amazing seasons that gave as all hope was the 12-13 season where he got 30 points in 46 GP.

He played a ton with Chucky on his left wing that season.

Then the 13-14 arrives and:

He gets 26 points in 77 GP

Exactly. So with some PP and a competant winger Eller was on a 50 pace in 12-13

Who was his wingers in 13-14?

12/21/13 game against the preds, Eller line was Bourque-Eller-Briere

Galchenyuk was with Plekanec.


Alex Galchenyuk-Tomas Plekanec- Brian Gionta
Max Pacioretty- David Desharnais-Brendan GallagherRene Bourque -Lars Eller-Danny Briere
Travis Moen- Brandon Prust -Michael Bournival

 

[nhlfan9191]

Exactly. So with some PP and a competant winger Eller was on a 50 pace in 12-13

Who was his wingers in 13-14?

12/21/13 game against the preds, Eller line was Bourque-Eller-Briere

Galchenyuk was with Plekanec.


Alex Galchenyuk-Tomas Plekanec- Brian Gionta
Max Pacioretty- David Desharnais-Brendan GallagherRene Bourque -Lars Eller-Danny Briere
Travis Moen- Brandon Prust -Michael Bournival

Keep Plekanec as the 1c if you couldn’t find a better replacement right away and get rid of David ****ing Desharnais so we could’ve groomed our younger centers. It’s not rocket science. I don’t know why some fans try to make it that.

 

[MasterDecoy]

f***ing hell, I'll never forgive therrien from stopping eller from becoming a ppg player

Never

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Exactly. So with some PP and a competant winger Eller was on a 50 pace in 12-13

Who was his wingers in 13-14?

12/21/13 game against the preds, Eller line was Bourque-Eller-Briere

Galchenyuk was with Plekanec.


Alex Galchenyuk-Tomas Plekanec- Brian Gionta
Max Pacioretty- David Desharnais-Brendan GallagherRene Bourque -Lars Eller-Danny Briere
Travis Moen- Brandon Prust -Michael Bournival

In 13-14 Eller started off with EGG line. I think he had say a 45-50 point pace by time they were broken up.

He stayed with galchenyuk until alex got injured but it did little. The duo of that line was galchenyuk and Gallagher(hence why they were always paired together afterwards) and galchenyuk and eller was a massive flop.

galchenyuk gets injured, Eller gets paired with Bourque and briere or whoever is leftover but it makes little difference again. He was shit with just galchenyuk without Gallagher and shit without galchenyuk.

People say "if only Eller had a talented winger" when in reality it was more like "if only eller had 2 good wingers on his line at same time so he can look like a 2nd liner"

I mean, that's the truth. That's why I've always felt Eller is better off as a #3 and fringe #2 more so than a real #2.


What people overlook is that when Eller got the chances that year DD was horrible to start the year. When DD got a little better he actually finished the season with 51 pts in last 60 GP which actually warrants top 6 minutes. They never back, it ended there and that's the past.

Sucks more for Galchenyuk than Eller but Galchenyuk even started a year as a #3C and did okay but they went back. I think that was the biggest issue.

 

[OldCraig71]

Eller has continued to be a solid player since leaving Montreal, can anyone say the same for little David?

 

[Kriss E]

In 13-14 Eller started off with EGG line. I think he had say a 45-50 point pace by time they were broken up.

He stayed with galchenyuk until alex got injured but it did little. The duo of that line was galchenyuk and Gallagher(hence why they were always paired together afterwards) and galchenyuk and eller was a massive flop.

galchenyuk gets injured, Eller gets paired with Bourque and briere or whoever is leftover but it makes little difference again. He was **** with just galchenyuk without Gallagher and **** without galchenyuk.

People say "if only Eller had a talented winger" when in reality it was more like "if only eller had 2 good wingers on his line at same time so he can look like a 2nd liner"

I mean, that's the truth. That's why I've always felt Eller is better off as a #3 and fringe #2 more so than a real #2.


What people overlook is that when Eller got the chances that year DD was horrible to start the year. When DD got a little better he actually finished the season with 51 pts in last 60 GP which actually warrants top 6 minutes. They never back, it ended there and that's the past.

Sucks more for Galchenyuk than Eller but Galchenyuk even started a year as a #3C and did okay but they went back. I think that was the biggest issue.

Eller had a career year in Mtl playing mostly with a rookie Galchenyuk and Prust.

When Therrien took over, there was no discussion. Plekanec and DD were his top two centers. He was arguing on Antichambre in 11-12 that there was no way Cunneyworth should split up DD-Max-Cole because those guys were the best line. It didn't matter to him that the team was actually losing so keeping that line intact meant nothing.
Therrien always saw DD as a top 2 center. Eller never really got much of a chance to prove himself.

 

[Lshap]

There's obviously no way to know for sure, but how is it any different then talking about who to pick on draft day. We can't be sure about any of the prospects, but we can make educated guesses, provide the reasoning and debate the merits.

Eller's been debated to death already, but the argument is just as true for Galchenyuk. Even if Galchenyuk never hits 70 points, you'll have a hard time convincing me that with a proper coaching/development he wouldn't have been able to hit those numbers.

The difference between a draft pick and Eller is that a draft pick is selected based on concrete results at the junior level. We're looking backwards at what he's done, ranked against what other prospects have done. Obviously, his future NHL career is a mystery.

On the other hand, Eller's NHL career is no longer a mystery. He's a veteran who's playing on the best team in the league. Looking backwards or forwards I don't see this hypothetical 50-60 point player anywhere. So on what basis can he be more than what he's been? Can someone claim his past potential was robbed from him by a bad coach? Lots of players had lousy coaches who didn't use them well. That seems like a thin excuse to me. Eller's had a good career -- why not just appreciate him for what he is? This talk about him as a 50/60 pt. NHL player is based on hints, hope and wishful thinking. But it's not based on anything he's done in the NHL. If he was a prospect or rookie -- sure -- who knows what his future holds. But after seven years, it's unlikely there's an undiscovered gear.

As to Galchenyuk, I think that's a better example. He's scored 30 goals. Nothing hypothetical about that. I'd guess his upside is 60-ish points, but we're just squabbling over details.

 

[Scintillating10]

I have Vegas winning in 5 games, maybe 6. They are speedy, relentless, seems like all over the ice. The way they handled the Jets. Exposed players like Buff. Who, himself had outplayed Subban in previous series.

 

[Price is Wright]

****ing hell, I'll never forgive therrien from stopping eller from becoming a ppg player

Never

Yeah how dare he. Trotz too, come on Eller is a ppg player! What are you doing having him on the third line you idiot! Give us the EOO line and watch him blossom!

 

[PaulD]

Eller has continued to be a solid player since leaving Montreal, can anyone say the same for little David?

like Pleks he immediately went to 4th line on his new team.

 

[PaulD]

Yeah how dare he. Trotz too, come on Eller is a ppg player! What are you doing having him on the third line you idiot! Give us the EOO line and watch him blossom!

He plays behind elite center men in Washington. Properly built team.

He played behind garbage center men Montreal. Bargain Bin built lottery squad.

 

[PaulD]

Anyone else feel like summer started and watching hockey season has passed?

No game Saturday night all but killed it.

Not intentionally but we have plans Monday eve, Wednesday eve, and Saturday night. First final I can recall that I will barely see.

 

[sandviper]

Anyone else feel like summer started and watching hockey season has passed?

No game Saturday night all but killed it.

Not intentionally but we have plans Monday eve, Wednesday eve, and Saturday night. First final I can recall that I will barely see.

Meh, hockey season for me ended really in October and I've spent the last 8 months treating HF like Reddit.

In all seriousness, I'm not captivated like I was last year. Full disclosure that I was rooting for Nashville last year, and bummed out they got bumped out this year. While overall, I wasn't interested in the playoffs this year, I am very interested in the finals for a couple reasons:

1. Two FRESH and new teams fighting for the cup.
2. Possibly see Vegas make even more history.
3. Hopefully see Ovechkin hoist the cup.

I got zero love for the Capitals (don't hate them either) and I joke about Lars and DSP but I do want to see Ovi win.

I got no real interest in the Knights and actually prefer they don't win but don't care if they do. However, I will be happy for MAF who I thought kinda had his thunder stolen by Murray last year even though he had to be pulled out and replaced if the Pens were going to get further.

 

[peate]

I was all hyped for a game I thought was today. Would have made sense to start today and end next Saturday with a Vegas sweep.

 

[Sorinth]

The difference between a draft pick and Eller is that a draft pick is selected based on concrete results at the junior level. We're looking backwards at what he's done, ranked against what other prospects have done. Obviously, his future NHL career is a mystery.

On the other hand, Eller's NHL career is no longer a mystery. He's a veteran who's playing on the best team in the league. Looking backwards or forwards I don't see this hypothetical 50-60 point player anywhere. So on what basis can he be more than what he's been? Can someone claim his past potential was robbed from him by a bad coach? Lots of players had lousy coaches who didn't use them well. That seems like a thin excuse to me. Eller's had a good career -- why not just appreciate him for what he is? This talk about him as a 50/60 pt. NHL player is based on hints, hope and wishful thinking. But it's not based on anything he's done in the NHL. If he was a prospect or rookie -- sure -- who knows what his future holds. But after seven years, it's unlikely there's an undiscovered gear.

As to Galchenyuk, I think that's a better example. He's scored 30 goals. Nothing hypothetical about that. I'd guess his upside is 60-ish points, but we're just squabbling over details.

As pointed out Eller went 82 consecutive games and put up 48 points, so to 50 points is based on wishful thinking is nonsense. But I'm fine dropping Eller as a discussing point.

But the meat of the issue is your belief that bad coaching during his early NHL career didn't have impact his career. That's just nonsensical to me. Yes lot's of players get bad coaching, and never get the opportunities, and guess what lot's of players don't reach their potential either. Sure a lot of that was probably misjudged potential, but all of it? Not a chance.

 

[DAChampion]

Meh, hockey season for me ended really in October and I've spent the last 8 months treating HF like Reddit.

In all seriousness, I'm not captivated like I was last year. Full disclosure that I was rooting for Nashville last year, and bummed out they got bumped out this year. While overall, I wasn't interested in the playoffs this year, I am very interested in the finals for a couple reasons:

1. Two FRESH and new teams fighting for the cup.
2. Possibly see Vegas make even more history.
3. Hopefully see Ovechkin hoist the cup.

I got zero love for the Capitals (don't hate them either) and I joke about Lars and DSP but I do want to see Ovi win.

I got no real interest in the Knights and actually prefer they don't win but don't care if they do. However, I will be happy for MAF who I thought kinda had his thunder stolen by Murray last year even though he had to be pulled out and replaced if the Pens were going to get further.

I think that we can all agree that the Habs missing this year's playoffs is not Bergevin's fault.

The Habs had a really weak draft in 2008.

;-)

 

[Price is Wright]

But the meat of the issue is your belief that bad coaching during his early NHL career didn't have impact his career. That's just nonsensical to me. Yes lot's of players get bad coaching, and never get the opportunities, and guess what lot's of players don't reach their potential either. Sure a lot of that was probably misjudged potential, but all of it? Not a chance.

I think if you want an idea of the max potential of Lars Eller, look at Travis Zajac. Zajac early on was pushed into a top six role and pulled off a few good seasons, but eventually it was clear he didn't have the skill to consistently handle top six duties and fell to being a low 40 point centre. Patrik Berglund in St. Louis comes to mind too. He had that hot start rookie year and his 52 point campaign in the top six but otherwise couldn't handle it.

So sure, in hindsight, it would have made more sense to move Desharnais to the wing and try both Galchenyuk and Eller at centre with Plekanec after 12-13 and see how far they could go in scoring roles. But in hindsight it also made sense to realize that Desharnais and Eller were both not good enough to be top six centres, and Plekanec was a 2C bandaid carried by Pacioretty, and that the club needed to go full throttle behind Galchenyuk, and find another centre even if Galchenyuk became a high scoring centre. So even at a best case scenario, maybe Eller plays 2C/3C with Chuck and Plekanec, but it's still not the answer for the club. And when his next contract comes, it still makes sense to move him for draft picks and bring Danault into the 3C role instead.

(And yes, Danault ended up playing 1C, but that doesn't mean it wasn't the wrong move to trade Eller.)

 

[MaxDummy]

Nobody said he would be a PPG center or a 1st line C... IMO Eller had the potential to be a good 2C.

look at Travis Zajac.

Zajac is still a top 6 guy... In fact he's been in the top 2 for ice time by centers for the Devils since the 2008-09 season... 18:00+ minutes per game.

Patrik Berglund in St. Louis comes to mind too.

Berglund is a good comparable. The difference is he produced alot of those early points on the PP. 22 points on the PP at 20yo. Berglund is a great example of a guy who had the chance and it didn't work. Hell probably Eller would have failed at 2C too... My point is we will never know.

My example was Kesler. Drafted as a safe pick. Safe to become a 3rd liner. Not amazing at anything, but good at alot of things. Seemed to have low upside. Didn't produce much in his first seasons.. Then got some PP time and better linesmates and never looked back.

16 points in 48 games at 22 yo for Kesler, for 0.33 P/game.
28 points in 78 games for Eller for 0,35 P/game.

At 23 Kesler got bigger responsabilities and a raise of 3 minutes of ice time per game total (PP time also) for 19:00+ minutes per game on average. He posted 0.46 P/game

At 23 Eller saw is minutes being cut a bit. Stayed 3rd line with good wingers. 0.63 P/game

At 24 Kesler saw his ice time go to 19:30. He grew into his role as a 2nd line centre and posted an amazing season.

At 24 Eller was still stuck behind the smurf. For no reasons at all.

 

[Per Sjoblom]

Anyone else feel like summer started and watching hockey season has passed?

No game Saturday night all but killed it.

Not intentionally but we have plans Monday eve, Wednesday eve, and Saturday night. First final I can recall that I will barely see.

Indeed, I wasted an hour or so watching hockey fights on YouTube. They should have started the series yesterday.