OT: Out of Town Thread; Anywhere but here...

[Habs Halifax]

It is a fact that as soon as Tenko jumped on the ice, you would see Lavy send Subban quickly. Especially after Tenko's 2 goal game. No heffin around. Tarasenko was shadowed by Subban after that.

It's not me who defines these facts. Ask people who did watch their entire run. Tgey'll tell you the same thing.

You want to make it a matter of opinion because it doesnt fit your halfarsed narrative.

I am fully aware of how the Preds used Subban and so are others. We don't need you watching the games to remind us of side facts that don't factor in what I was saying

Hey guys... "I watched the games" so I know everything now!

 

[nhlfan9191]

More *****ing cause someone don't agree with you. Go back to bed!

Let me guess... you watched every game and what you interpreted from what you see is fact right? Nobody else can question you now? lol.

You are entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

He’s right. It’s not an opinion. Subban took on the heaviest responsibilities last year in the playoffs and ran with it. Weber never had that kind of impact for Nashville. He allowed Laviolette to use Jose-Ellis in offensive situations which is why their home record was threw the roof with last change. You do have a point that their depth gave them options, but Subban was destroying teams top lines and energizing his team. You have to look no further then 2010 and 2014 while he was with us to see what kind of an impact he can have for a team in the post season.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Open your eyes! I was saying that YOU were here to help!!!!! Take a look in the mirror and go back to bed!!!!

lol. You got me on that one. Hard to tell if there is sarcasm or not.

 

[Habs Halifax]

He’s right. It’s not an opinion. Subban took on the heaviest responsibilities last year in the playoffs and ran with it. Weber never had that kind of impact for Nashville. He allowed Laviolette to use Jose-Ellis in offensive situations which is why their home record was threw the roof with last change. You do have a point that their depth gave them options, but Subban was destroying teams top lines and energizing his team. You have to look no further then 2010 and 2014 while he was with us to see what kind of an impact he can have for a team in the post season.

So you think the reason why the Preds made the cup finals is because Subban lead them? The difference between Subban and Weber was the missing factor in their lack of success in previous years?

It had nothing to do with the maturity of Forsberg, Johansen, Ekholm, and Ellis right? The Preds and their development from year to year has no factor in why they reached the cup finals?

Subban as a fringe top 5D vs Weber as a fringe top 10D was the missing piece. Do you really think that's the reason why they made the cup finals? Do you seriously think Weber could not play sound defense on that roster too?

 

[Andy]

More *****ing cause someone don't agree with you. Go back to bed!

Let me guess... you watched every game and what you interpreted from what you see is fact right? Nobody else can question you now? lol.

You are entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

Your opinion is wrong though. In fact, it's like you didn't even watch the run at all. That hurts your credibility greatly. At least I know to avoid your posts on this topic moving forward as you clearly did not watch.

 

[Andy]

It is a fact that as soon as Tenko jumped on the ice, you would see Lavy send Subban quickly. Especially after Tenko's 2 goal game. No heffin around. Tarasenko was shadowed by Subban after that.

It's not me who defines these facts. Ask people who did watch their entire run. Tgey'll tell you the same thing.

You want to make it a matter of opinion because it doesnt fit your halfarsed narrative.

IIRC, Lavi is on record saying he put Subban against the bigger forwards like Tenko, Malkin, Getzlaf, Toews because he didn't think Josi and Ellis could handle their size.

Wasn't Subban on the ice for one ES goal all playoffs? If I'm not mistaken, Getzlaf, Tenko and Toews didn't score a single ES goal when Subban was on the ice.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Your opinion is wrong though. In fact, it's like you didn't even watch the run at all. That hurts your credibility greatly.

My opinion is not wrong, it's an opinion that you don't agree with. There is no fact you can cherry pick that proves anything one way or another.

So... you think the difference between Subban and Weber is the reason why they went to the cup finals last year? There are no other factors at play right? Come on man.

 

[nhlfan9191]

So you think the reason why the Preds made the cup finals is because Subban lead them? The difference between Subban and Weber was the missing factor in their lack of success in previous years?

It had nothing to do with the maturity of Forsberg, Johansen, Ekholm, and Ellis right? The Preds and their development from year to year has no factor in why they reached the cup finals?

Subban as a fringe top 5D vs Weber as a fringe top 10D was the missing piece. Do you really think that's the reason why they made the cup finals? Do you seriously think Weber could not play sound defense on that roster too?

Weber and Subban are vastly different players, regardless of where you rank them on a defenceman totem pole. So yes, I am saying he was the difference. Keeping Weber means that he needs to be paired with Josi which takes away the depth they had. Bringing in Subban, who whether you like it or not is a better defenceman then Weber is now, allowed them to split their pairs up. It’s not difficult to understand why they’re a much better team defensively. As for those players maturing, of coarse that plays a part as well.

 

[Andy]

My opinion is not wrong, it's an opinion that you don't agree with. There is no fact you can cherry pick that proves anything one way or another.

So... you think the difference between Subban and Weber is the reason why they went to the cup finals last year? There are no other factors at play right? Come on man.

You're opinion IS wrong as you clearly didn't watch the series.

Subban is much better than Weber -even if both are elite - and more versatile giving a coach many more options on how to employ his D. And considering Nashville's D was their strong suit, then yes he was a factor.

He wasn't the factor, but he was A factor and a very important one at that, especially given that he was given a Conn Smyth vote - FACT.

Even on that strong D core, Subban leads it in points this year and goals. Heck he even leads the team in points.

Subban has 3 conference finals appearances and a cup final appearance. Weber has none. He's not the only factor, but he's definitely a great contributor in getting the teams he plays for there. Weber may finish his career without ever getting passed the second round.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

IIRC, Lavi is on record saying he put Subban against the bigger forwards like Tenko, Malkin, Getzlaf, Toews because he didn't think Josi and Ellis could handle their size.

Wasn't Subban on the ice for one ES goal all playoffs? If I'm not mistaken, Getzlaf, Tenko and Toews didn't score a single ES goal when Subban was on the ice.

6 es goal in the entire 3 first rounds... 19 games.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Weber and Subban are vastly different players, regardless of where you rank them on a defenceman totem pole. So yes, I am saying he was the difference. Keeping Weber means that he needs to be paired with Josi which takes away the depth they had. Bringing in Subban, who whether you like it or not is a better defenceman then Weber is now, allowed them to split their pairs up. It’s not difficult to understand why they’re a much better team defensively. As for those players maturing, of coarse that plays a part as well.

There are many factors why the Preds made the Cup finals. Subban did not carry the Preds to the cup finals. He played sound defense with his partner and the responsibility was in their top 4D. They rolled those guys and yes, Subban likely had the tougher match-ups like Weber would of had.

I just don't think the difference between Subban and Weber was the sole reason why they made the finals. It's a team game and things went well for the Preds last year. Subban is a big part but their other top 3D are pretty good too. Finding the right partner for Subban is key. Just like with Weber. Trading Weber forced the Preds to change direction and not rely on one pairing so much. They realized how good their top 4D was as a whole.

 

[sandviper]

He’s right. It’s not an opinion. Subban took on the heaviest responsibilities last year in the playoffs and ran with it. Weber never had that kind of impact for Nashville. He allowed Laviolette to use Jose-Ellis in offensive situations which is why their home record was threw the roof with last change. You do have a point that their depth gave them options, but Subban was destroying teams top lines and energizing his team. You have to look no further then 2010 and 2014 while he was with us to see what kind of an impact he can have for a team in the post season.

I'm not going to do the work that really others can do themselves, but just looking at with or without you (WOWY) charts illustrates PK's impact on players around him. Cliff notes: He has a significant impact on his teammates.

You're right though in that a player's impact to his team isn't just with him on the ice. It also affects the line-ups throughout your team and can potentially make you a better team because of it.

 

[Habs Halifax]

You're opinion IS wrong as you clearly didn't watch the series.

Subban is much better than Weber -even if both are elite - and more versatile giving a coach many more options on how to employ his D. And considering Nashville's D was their strong suit, then yes he was a factor.

He wasn't the factor, but he was A factor and a very important one at that, especially given that he was given a Conn Smyth vote - FACT.

Even on that strong D core, Subban leads it in points this year and goals. Heck he even leads the team in points.

Subban has 3 conference finals appearances and a cup final appearance. Weber has none. He's not the only factor, but he's definitely a great contributor in getting the teams he plays for there. Weber may finish his career without ever getting passed the second round.

I disagree with your opinion and you clearly don't even know what the discussion was. The debate is not who is better.

 

[Andy]

I disagree with your opinion and you clearly don't even know what the discussion was. The debate is not who is better.

I don't think your opinion is valid because you evidently didn't watch anything. Hence, there is no debate to be had and your voice isn't worth my time. You're obviously trying to invent a narrative based on a run you didn't even watch.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I'm not going to do the work that really others can do themselves, but just looking at with or without you (WOWY) charts illustrates PK's impact on players around him. Cliff notes: He has a significant impact on his teammates.

You're right though in that a player's impact to his team isn't just with him on the ice. It also affects the line-ups throughout your team and can potentially make you a better team because of it.

This is a decent defense in the debate.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I don't think your opinion is valid because you evidently didn't watch anything. Hence, there is no debate to be had and your voice isn't worth my time.

You are talking BS and you are way to confrontational. How does this sound to you... You know shit F all cause in fact, I know you didn't watch the games. This is your line of defense and is horse shit.

You stuck your nose into the discussion and you don't even know what the debate was. Congratulations.

 

[nhlfan9191]

There are many factors why the Preds made the Cup finals. Subban did not carry the Preds to the cup finals. He played sound defense with his partner and the responsibility was in their top 4D. They rolled those guys and yes, Subban likely had the tougher match-ups like Weber would of had.

I just don't think the difference between Subban and Weber was the sole reason why they made the finals. It's a team game and things went well for the Preds last year. Subban is a big part but their other top 3D are pretty good too. Finding the right partner for Subban is key. Just like with Weber. Trading Weber forced the Preds to change direction and not rely on one pairing so much. They realized how good their top 4D was as a whole.

Subban’s been playing with Emelin this year. Finding a partner for him isn’t key. That’s the biggest knock on Weber. You have to have a top 2-3 puck moving defenceman to play with him or it’s pointless because you can’t transition the puck. Again, this is why people aren’t taking your opinion serious. It’s a fact that Weber struggles in a transition game it’s a fact that it’s easier to find a partner Subban then it is Weber.

 

[sandviper]

There are many factors why the Preds made the Cup finals. Subban did not carry the Preds to the cup finals. He played sound defense with his partner and the responsibility was in their top 4D. They rolled those guys and yes, Subban likely had the tougher match-ups like Weber would of had.

I just don't think the difference between Subban and Weber was the sole reason why they made the finals. It's a team game and things went well for the Preds last year. Subban is a big part but their other top 3D are pretty good too. Finding the right partner for Subban is key. Just like with Weber. Trading Weber forced the Preds to change direction and not rely on one pairing so much. They realized how good their top 4D was as a whole.

I've gone on record stating Rinne was probably the biggest reason overall why Nashville made it to the finals. Of course, the other players had to contribute as it isn't only on Rinne. However, just talking Weber and Subban, PK did have a bigger impact and in fact, doesn't the bolded part of your post suggest that? With Weber, be it reasons with him or his team, never got to the next level. Swapping Weber and PK was a change in direction as you said, which I 100% agree with. Thus, adding PK made the core four players (PK, Josi, Eliis and Ekholm) more effective.

Yes, there are a bunch of other players on the team, but if by changing defensive partners made Nashville better, wouldn't that suggest PK had a larger impact than Weber?

 

[Habs Halifax]

Subban’s been playing with Emelin this year. Finding a partner for him isn’t key for him. That’s the biggest knock on Weber. You have to have a top 2-3 puck moving defenceman to play with him or it’s pointless because you can’t transition the puck. Again, this is why people aren’t taking your opinion serious. It’s a fact that Weber can’t transition the puck and it’s a fact that it’s easier to find a partner Subban then it is Weber.

Subban is a fringe top 5D and Weber is a fringe top 10D. The debate is not who is better.

The debate is weather or not the gap between these two are the sole factor at why the Preds reached the cup finals last year. My opinion is NO! This not the sole reason why the Preds made the cup finals but Subban did play a important role as Weber would have. Preds have a lot of moving parts and the development and maturity of several players played a role into their success.

 

[groovejuice]

In this case, you are not here to help. You offered nothing that contributes to the conversation of Swapping Subban for Weber is not the sole reason why the Preds made the Cup finals.

Did someone really say it was the sole reason? The acquisition of Subban for Weber was an enormous contributing factor in the Predators run. Arguably the most important, but that's up to individual interpretation.

A lot of people are still reluctant to give Subban the credit he's earned. That will always be the case I'm afraid.

 

[nhlfan9191]

I'm not going to do the work that really others can do themselves, but just looking at with or without you (WOWY) charts illustrates PK's impact on players around him. Cliff notes: He has a significant impact on his teammates.

You're right though in that a player's impact to his team isn't just with him on the ice. It also affects the line-ups throughout your team and can potentially make you a better team because of it.

You went above and beyond the call of duty last time I brought up a subject to prove a point for me last time. I won’t ask you to do that again.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I've gone on record stating Rinne was probably the biggest reason overall why Nashville made it to the finals. Of course, the other players had to contribute as it isn't only on Rinne. However, just talking Weber and Subban, PK did have a bigger impact and in fact, doesn't the bolded part of your post suggest that? With Weber, be it reasons with him or his team, never got to the next level. Swapping Weber and PK was a change in direction as you said, which I 100% agree with. Thus, adding PK made the core four players (PK, Josi, Eliis and Ekholm) more effective.

Yes, there are a bunch of other players on the team, but if by changing defensive partners made Nashville better, wouldn't that suggest PK had a larger impact than Weber?

I think the gap in value between Subban and Weber played a role. But Subban did not lead them to the cup finals and was not the sole reason why they turned their team into a cup contender.

 

[nhlfan9191]

Subban is a fringe top 5D and Weber is a fringe top 10D. The debate is not who is better.

The debate is weather or not the gap between these two are the sole factor at why the Preds reached the cup finals last year. My opinion is NO! This not the sole reason why the Preds made the cup finals but Subban did play a important role as Weber would have. Preds have a lot of moving parts and the development and maturity of several players played a role into their success.

You completely ignored what I said in a previous post about where they’re ranked as defenceman so I’ll just repost what I said so you can actually read it. Not going to type the same thing a hundred times for you to spin in circles. I’ll just bold the part where I addressed what you’re trying to argue.

Weber and Subban are vastly different players, regardless of where you rank them on a defenceman totem pole. So yes, I am saying he was the difference. Keeping Weber means that he needs to be paired with Josi which takes away the depth they had. Bringing in Subban, who whether you like it or not is a better defenceman then Weber is now, allowed them to split their pairs up. It’s not difficult to understand why they’re a much better team defensively. As for those players maturing, of coarse that plays a part as well.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Did someone really say it was the sole reason? The acquisition of Subban for Weber was an enormous contributing factor in the Predators run. Arguably the most important, but that's up to individual interpretation.

A lot of people are still reluctant to give Subban the credit he's earned. That will always be the case I'm afraid.

Well, the barrage of posters coming to Subban's defense was about this comment that I made. So the debate is against something I said and now I'm being critized for what others said in response to this where it had turned into a Subban vs Weber and who is better debate? AGAIN

I said.. Subban was not the sole reason why the Preds made the cup finals and he did not lead them like Karlsson lead the Sens. I later clarified this multiple times by saying that Subban is a fringe top 5D and Weber is a fringe top 10D and I think the gap between them is not the sole reason why the Preds made the cup finals.

 

[Habs Halifax]

You completely ignored what I said in a previous post about where they’re ranked as defenceman so I’ll just repost what I said so you can actually read it. Not going to type the same thing a hundred times for you to spin in circles. I’ll just bold the part where I addressed what you’re trying to argue.

I ignored what you said cause your changing the conversation and creating a new debate of your own. You showed up to the party and are trying to change the music