Proposal: Ottawa's TDL & offseason (EDM, NYR & WSH)

[Puikiou]

To
(at the trade deadline)

Connor Brown (@1.75M x 2.5yrs - 50% salary retained)
Chris Tierney (@1.8M x 1.5yrs - 50% salary retained)

To

2022 1st round pick (EDM)
*Conditional 2022 2nd round pick (EDM) + 2022 3rd round pick (EDM)
(both picks become a 2021 1st round pick if Edmonton reaches the conference finals)​

- A la Tampa Bay & NYI last year (Coleman, Goodrow, Pageau), Edmonton bolsers their depth by adding two solid top 9 player.
- Both Brown and Tierney are young, excellent defensively and capable of chipping in offensively.
- Brown was McDavid’s junior linemate and historically does well alongside high end talent. The familiarity helps there if need be.

- Ottawa receives a 1st round pick in 2022 and late 1st (29th-32nd) in 2021 if the Oilers reach the conference finals. If they don’t, the pick is deferred to the 2nd & 3rd round picks in 2022.
- Ottawa retains salary on both Brown and Tierney to ease Edmonton’s cap situation.

RNH - McDavid - Puljujarvi
Kahun - Draisaitl - Yamamoto
Holloway - Tierney - C. Brown
Chiasson - Khaira - Kassian
Haas

Nurse - Barrie
Lagesson - Larsson
Russell - Bear
Jones

Smith
Koskinen


***

To

Nikita Zaitsev (4.5M x 3yrs)
Lassi Thomson (895K x 2yrs)

To

Jacob Trouba (8M x 5yrs cap hit - 5.6M real salary post bonus)​

- NYR saves 3.5M/year in cap hit for the next 3 seasons, then the full 8M cap hit of the final 2 years of Trouba’s deal.
- The extra cap space can be allocated to the Zibanejad, Sherterkin, Fox, Lindgren, Buchnevich, Kakko, Chytil extensions over the next two years.
- Zaitsev doesn’t have to be protected in the expansion draft.
- Finally, NYR gets a Trouba-lite project on the blueline in Thomson. Big shot, physical, sometimes questionable IQ.

- Ottawa takes on a huge cap hit, but actually pays a mere 1.1M premium in real dollars to go from Zaitsev to Trouba. On paper, it’s a better fit to play alongside Chabot on the top pair.

Kreider - Zibanejad - Buchnevich
Panarin - Strome - Kakko
Lafrenière - Chytil - Gauthier
Di Giuseppe - Howden - Blackwell
Rooney

Lindgren - Fox
Miller - Zaitsev
Hajek - Schneider
Robertson

Shesterkin
Georgiev


***

To

2022 2nd round pick (TBL)

To

Nick Jensen (2.5M x 2yrs)
​

- Washington is set to protect Carlson, Orlov and Schultz in the expansion draft. That would leave Dillon, Jensen, Kempny, TVR, Sieghentaler and Johansen unprotected

- Ottawa weaponizes their last ED protection slot to snag Jensen from the Caps and strengthen their blueline depth.

Ovechkin - Kuznetsov - Sprong
Sheary - Backstrom - Wilson
Vrana - Eller - Oshie
Hagelin - Dowd - Panik
Hathaway

Dillon - Carlson
Orlov - Schultz
kempny - Sieghentaler
Johansen

Samsonov
Vanacek​

Click to read more...

 

[One Winged Angel]

The Rangers don’t do this. They’d rather take a chance on Trouba rebounding. He’s actually been solid defensively as of late. He just won’t ever live up to that AAV because he won’t get the PP TOI to boost his offensive numbers.

 

[cwede]

not any kind of fit or temptation to NYR

Trouba has 'No Move" clause
and Zaitsev does nothing to backfill Trouba's presence or contributions

don't be fooled by vocal NYR-focused HFB-posters who might imply Trouba has been a disappointment
he eats minutes, he has not played poorly,
him doing his thing, last season, contributed to both Fox and DeAngelo being able to have their career seasons

and tho Thomson is a fine prospect, NYR have Lundkvist, Schneider and Skinner in the near-term RHD queue

the players in Sens system which might really interest NYR might be C's (Greig, Pinto) who likely won't be offered

 

[Boondock]

To
(at the trade deadline)

Connor Brown (@1.75M x 2.5yrs - 50% salary retained)
Chris Tierney (@1.8M x 1.5yrs - 50% salary retained)

To

2022 1st round pick (EDM)
*Conditional 2022 2nd round pick (EDM) + 2022 3rd round pick (EDM)
(both picks become a 2021 1st round pick if Edmonton reaches the conference finals)​

- A la Tampa Bay & NYI last year (Coleman, Goodrow, Pageau), Edmonton bolsers their depth by adding two solid top 9 player.
- Both Brown and Tierney are young, excellent defensively and capable of chipping in offensively.
- Brown was McDavid’s junior linemate and historically does well alongside high end talent. The familiarity helps there if need be.

- Ottawa receives a 1st round pick in 2022 and late 1st (29th-32nd) in 2021 if the Oilers reach the conference finals. If they don’t, the pick is deferred to the 2nd & 3rd round picks in 2022.
- Ottawa retains salary on both Brown and Tierney to ease Edmonton’s cap situation.

RNH - McDavid - Puljujarvi
Kahun - Draisaitl - Yamamoto
Holloway - Tierney - C. Brown
Chiasson - Khaira - Kassian
Haas

Nurse - Barrie
Lagesson - Larsson
Russell - Bear
Jones

Smith
Koskinen


***

To

Nikita Zaitsev (4.5M x 3yrs)
Lassi Thomson (895K x 2yrs)

To

Jacob Trouba (8M x 5yrs cap hit - 5.6M real salary post bonus)​

- NYR saves 3.5M/year in cap hit for the next 3 seasons, then the full 8M cap hit of the final 2 years of Trouba’s deal.
- The extra cap space can be allocated to the Zibanejad, Sherterkin, Fox, Lindgren, Buchnevich, Kakko, Chytil extensions over the next two years.
- Zaitsev doesn’t have to be protected in the expansion draft.
- Finally, NYR gets a Trouba-lite project on the blueline in Thomson. Big shot, physical, sometimes questionable IQ.

- Ottawa takes on a huge cap hit, but actually pays a mere 1.1M premium in real dollars to go from Zaitsev to Trouba. On paper, it’s a better fit to play alongside Chabot on the top pair.

Kreider - Zibanejad - Buchnevich
Panarin - Strome - Kakko
Lafrenière - Chytil - Gauthier
Di Giuseppe - Howden - Blackwell
Rooney

Lindgren - Fox
Miller - Zaitsev
Hajek - Schneider
Robertson

Shesterkin
Georgiev


***

To

2022 2nd round pick (TBL)

To

Nick Jensen (2.5M x 2yrs)
​

- Washington is set to protect Carlson, Orlov and Schultz in the expansion draft. That would leave Dillon, Jensen, Kempny, TVR, Sieghentaler and Johansen unprotected

- Ottawa weaponizes their last ED protection slot to snag Jensen from the Caps and strengthen their blueline depth.

Ovechkin - Kuznetsov - Sprong
Sheary - Backstrom - Wilson
Vrana - Eller - Oshie
Hagelin - Dowd - Panik
Hathaway

Dillon - Carlson
Orlov - Schultz
kempny - Sieghentaler
Johansen

Samsonov
Vanacek​

Trouba has a full NMC for the next 3 seasons. He left Winnipeg because his wife is in medical school and her credentials/requirements are not the same on both sides of the border so he specifically went to New York for his wife/girlfriend. This doesn't speak to value of the trade, just the logistics of it.

 

[Puikiou]

Trouba has a full NMC for the next 3 seasons. He left Winnipeg because his wife is in medical school and her credentials/requirements are not the same on both sides of the border so he specifically went to New York for his wife/girlfriend. This doesn't speak to value of the trade, just the logistics of it.

NMC only means that he can't be waived or placed in the minors and must be protected in the expansion draft. His M-NTC kicks in in 2024-2025.

 

[GRob83]

The Caps would probably be more interested in moving Orlov considering most of their D prospects are left shot and his Cap Hit is double that of Jensens. They will need the Cap Space to re-sign Vrana and Ovechkin.

 

[Boondock]

A NMC

NMC only means that he can't be waived or placed in the minors and must be protected in the expansion draft. His M-NTC kicks in in 2024-2025.

also means you can't be traded unless you waive. No Movement (of any type).

 

[TheNewEra]

ottawa wont be retaining contracts with multiple years left

we might do that for dzingel

 

[GAGLine]

NMC only means that he can't be waived or placed in the minors and must be protected in the expansion draft. His M-NTC kicks in in 2024-2025.

No, NMC also means he can't be traded without his permission.

 

[GhostfaceWu]

Taylor hall isnt expected to return a 1st but you think tierny and brown combined get you a first a 2nd and a 3rd? Never gonna happen.

 

[Puikiou]

ottawa wont be retaining contracts with multiple years left

we might do that for dzingel

Ottawa wasn't buying anyone out until they did with Phaneuf. And again with Ryan.

If it's a move that makes sense (saves the team $$), the Sens will absolutely retain salary.

A NMC

also means you can't be traded unless you waive. No Movement (of any type).

No, NMC also means he can't be traded without his permission.

You are both correct.

 

[Boondock]

Ottawa wasn't buying anyone out until they did with Phaneuf. And again with Ryan.

If it's a move that makes sense (saves the team $$), the Sens will absolutely retain salary.





You are both correct.

There's a lot of nuance to the CBA and all of the different contract clauses. I don't know them all by heart either.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

No, NMC also means he can't be traded without his permission.

On CapFriendly, if it just lists an NMC, the player has full trade protection. Several players throughout the league do have an NMC with a partial NTC (Kessel, Letang, Bergeron, etc.), which will be explicitly stated.

Browse - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

 

[TFHockey]

I don't see Tierney and Brown returning a 1st, a 2nd and a 3rd. Oh and hey that 2nd turns into another 1st if the Oilers reach the conference finals. Yikes.

Even at 50% retained that is highway robbery for the Sens.

Lastly, it sounds as though Holland isn't interested in dealing picks but dealing prospects instead.

 

[Dan Patrick]

Taylor hall isnt expected to return a 1st but you think tierny and brown combined get you a first a 2nd and a 3rd? Never gonna happen.

I mean Brown has one less point playing with worse players and can actually kill a penalty. Tierney has three less points but is a more versatile forward as he can take draws, play centre and and play wing. Both also have a year term on their contracts so you are getting them for two playoffs or you can trade them next season to recoup part of your costs. Part of the reason Hall isn't returning a 1st is because he is a rental and he has been bad offensively which is arguably his biggest contribution to a team.

 

[Drake1588]

If there's been a lesson from the last expansion draft, it's that teams would be better served just letting it ride rather than trying to be the smartest guy in the room. Put together the best team that you can, assemble your protection/exposure lists, and watch in silence as Seattle takes the player that best fits its needs. Then re-compute, and make subsequent moves to shore up any holes created by the expansion draft.

That's what makes the most sense for teams, heading into the Seattle draft. I doubt the Caps will be playing expansion draft gymnastics. If Seattle takes a D, then fine. The Cpas have a plethora of D signed already, and should be able to absorb the hit. If Seattle does so, then that means the Caps don't lose a promising young goaltender like Vanecek. There's always pluses and minuses.

Trying to make too many pre-draft moves can see a team lose two or more good players, as happened the last time the league went through this process. The worst you should do is lose one good player. Why risk losing more?

 

[TFHockey]

I mean Brown has one less point playing with worse players and can actually kill a penalty. Tierney has three less points but is a more versatile forward as he can take draws, play centre and and play wing. Both also have a year term on their contracts so you are getting them for two playoffs or you can trade them next season to recoup part of your costs. Part of the reason Hall isn't returning a 1st is because he is a rental and he has been bad offensively which is arguably his biggest contribution to a team.

Bottom six guys don't get returns like that. C'mon.

 

[TheNewEra]

Ottawa also wasn't buying anyone out until they did with Phaneuf. And again with Ryan.

If it's a move that makes sense (saves the team $$), the Sens will absolutely retain salary.

For multiple years where we have to factor in brady's extension, batherson's extension, zub's extension, rising salary on multiple contracts and managements need to insulate our players with vets (the players sent out in the original deal) meaning we have to spend that money on replacement guys and we wont get anything near value

plus my quick math maybe off but we for 'next season' we retain, 2 mill for brown, 2.6 for tierney, take on 8 for trouba and take on 2.5 million for jensen so thats 15.1 not counting replacement players for brown and tierney, puts it at 16.5ish

keeping brown, tierney and zaistev would result in 12.7 while at the same time not needing replacement players for brown and tierney

So it would be cheaper for us to not make a move and if we want the rangers to pay trouba's signing bonus we got to give them a lot more (not to mention they wouldnt want zaistev haha)

 

[Dan Patrick]

Bottom six guys don't get returns like that. C'mon.

Sorry I should have written I don't think they will return that much. But I don't think its out of the realm of possibilities to think that those two players could return a 1st. I could see something like a 1st and a 3rd that becomes a 2nd if the oil make the conference finals. The Oilers could probably get most of that value back next year by just trading them at the deadline anyway.

 

[zar]

To
(at the trade deadline)

Connor Brown (@1.75M x 2.5yrs - 50% salary retained)
Chris Tierney (@1.8M x 1.5yrs - 50% salary retained)

To

2022 1st round pick (EDM)
*Conditional 2022 2nd round pick (EDM) + 2022 3rd round pick (EDM)
(both picks become a 2021 1st round pick if Edmonton reaches the conference finals)​

- A la Tampa Bay & NYI last year (Coleman, Goodrow, Pageau), Edmonton bolsers their depth by adding two solid top 9 player.
- Both Brown and Tierney are young, excellent defensively and capable of chipping in offensively.
- Brown was McDavid’s junior linemate and historically does well alongside high end talent. The familiarity helps there if need be.

- Ottawa receives a 1st round pick in 2022 and late 1st (29th-32nd) in 2021 if the Oilers reach the conference finals. If they don’t, the pick is deferred to the 2nd & 3rd round picks in 2022.
- Ottawa retains salary on both Brown and Tierney to ease Edmonton’s cap situation.

RNH - McDavid - Puljujarvi
Kahun - Draisaitl - Yamamoto
Holloway - Tierney - C. Brown
Chiasson - Khaira - Kassian
Haas

Nurse - Barrie
Lagesson - Larsson
Russell - Bear
Jones

Smith
Koskinen


***

To

Nikita Zaitsev (4.5M x 3yrs)
Lassi Thomson (895K x 2yrs)

To

Jacob Trouba (8M x 5yrs cap hit - 5.6M real salary post bonus)​

- NYR saves 3.5M/year in cap hit for the next 3 seasons, then the full 8M cap hit of the final 2 years of Trouba’s deal.
- The extra cap space can be allocated to the Zibanejad, Sherterkin, Fox, Lindgren, Buchnevich, Kakko, Chytil extensions over the next two years.
- Zaitsev doesn’t have to be protected in the expansion draft.
- Finally, NYR gets a Trouba-lite project on the blueline in Thomson. Big shot, physical, sometimes questionable IQ.

- Ottawa takes on a huge cap hit, but actually pays a mere 1.1M premium in real dollars to go from Zaitsev to Trouba. On paper, it’s a better fit to play alongside Chabot on the top pair.

Kreider - Zibanejad - Buchnevich
Panarin - Strome - Kakko
Lafrenière - Chytil - Gauthier
Di Giuseppe - Howden - Blackwell
Rooney

Lindgren - Fox
Miller - Zaitsev
Hajek - Schneider
Robertson

Shesterkin
Georgiev


***

To

2022 2nd round pick (TBL)

To

Nick Jensen (2.5M x 2yrs)
​

- Washington is set to protect Carlson, Orlov and Schultz in the expansion draft. That would leave Dillon, Jensen, Kempny, TVR, Sieghentaler and Johansen unprotected

- Ottawa weaponizes their last ED protection slot to snag Jensen from the Caps and strengthen their blueline depth.

Ovechkin - Kuznetsov - Sprong
Sheary - Backstrom - Wilson
Vrana - Eller - Oshie
Hagelin - Dowd - Panik
Hathaway

Dillon - Carlson
Orlov - Schultz
kempny - Sieghentaler
Johansen

Samsonov
Vanacek​

Besides the Oilers not having the cap allowance for the proposed trade, we are not trading 1st round picks for 3rd/4th line players... let alone two 1st round picks in back to back years.



Oilers easily decline.

 

[TheNewEra]

Besides the Oilers not having the cap allowance for the proposed trade, we are not trading 1st round picks for 3rd/4th line players... let alone two 1st round picks in back to back years.



Oilers easily decline.

They arent fourth liners but i do get your point as a whole

 

[Hitemwith4]

People need to stomp using the Coleman tampa deal as a comparison for every third liner their team might trade

 

[edguy]

As a Sens fan:

No. Connor Brown isn't moving and we definitely aren't retaining on him.

Sure. No need to double think it. Take it and run.

No. Overpayment for an un necessary piece. Let the kids play.

 

[zar]

They arent fourth liners but i do get your point as a whole

I agree... Brown/Tierney are 3rd line guys... sorry how that might have come across. Just that I have seen other trade proposals where the OP is over valuing bottom 6 guys.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Only one of these that is realistic is the Jensen trade. Could be a decent stop gap until JBD is ready.

 

[Puikiou]

Bottom six guys don't get returns like that. C'mon.

I agree... Brown/Tierney are 3rd line guys... sorry how that might have come across. Just that I have seen other trade proposals where the OP is over valuing bottom 6 guys.

Blake Coleman (1.8M x 1.5yr) to TBL for Nolan Foote + 1st round pick
Barclay Goodrow (900K x 1.5yr) + 3rd round pick to TBL for Anthony Greco + 1st round pick
JG Pageau (green light to negotiate a 5M x 6yrs extension) to NYI for 1st round pick + 2nd round pick + 3rd round pick

That's just last year. Perhaps you're the one overvaluing late draft picks vs proven top 9 contributors with term. It's been proven time and time again that those guys win you cups.

For multiple years where we have to factor in brady's extension, batherson's extension, zub's extension, rising salary on multiple contracts and managements need to insulate our players with vets (the players sent out in the original deal) meaning we have to spend that money on replacement guys and we wont get anything near value

plus my quick math maybe off but we for 'next season' we retain, 2 mill for brown, 2.6 for tierney, take on 8 for trouba and take on 2.5 million for jensen so thats 15.1 not counting replacement players for brown and tierney, puts it at 16.5ish

keeping brown, tierney and zaistev would result in 12.7 while at the same time not needing replacement players for brown and tierney

So it would be cheaper for us to not make a move and if we want the rangers to pay trouba's signing bonus we got to give them a lot more (not to mention they wouldnt want zaistev haha)

1) Retention on Connor Brown + Chris Tierney = 4.1M vs 8.2M in real salary if they're kept.
Formenton and Pinto's ELCs come in cheaper than the 4.1M saving.

2) Brady, Batherson & Zub are getting extended regardless of what happens with Brown + Tierney. And as illustrated, even with retention, it's cheaper to replace those two with a pair of ELCs.

3) Trouba's 1.1M salary bump from Zaitsev's 4.5M eats into the remaining savings from Brown + Tierney vs ELCs.

4) Jensen's 2.5M x 2yrs is the only real addition to cap and is easily offset by letting Reilly walk + Seattle likely selecting Josh Brown.

5) Over the 5 years length of Trouba's contract, NYR saves 26M in cap space and 14.5M in real salary. They come out as massive winners from the $$ standpoint and have several Trouba replacements in house (Schneider, Lundkvist, Thomson, Robertson, etc.). They need the cap space for their premiere talent. 8M on the second pair is simply not viable and they price to obtain that flexibility is to eat the signing bonus, which is no problem for a team like NYR.