Ottawa U18 Part 4

[nothappy]

Looks like league is sending 4 teams 2 15yr old and 2 16,17 yr old teams to Peterborough tourney in Jan. , good exposure

Great news.
But as usual I have questions.
How do you send HC registered players to a sanctioned event on a different team?

Is this not against HC rules? Not that anyone in this area follows HC rules any way.

 

[nothappy]

General question, I may very well have incorrect facts.

The commish pointed to the OHL U18 draft as a reason why the league was working. How many of those players made OHL teams? If its a small number, whats the point?

Sorry, but if we are not seeing an increase in players in the OHL, no D1 commits out of U18 (it was a selling point, that they would get colleges infront of U18 players, they always claim the stands are filled with colleges at U18 games), and not much change in the stats for HEO players in CCHL, whats the point of all this? I mean, really, assuming the above is correct, the only ones who are benefiting are the ones who make a financial profit.

Could be wrong, but?

OHL teams are not formed completely yet I can have a answer once the season starts. My educated guess would be very few HEO area kids make OHL from the U18 draft. More later.

So this is what I have. Early only 5 games into OHL but;

HEO U18 draft 2016
21 drafted from HEO area 11 are on OHL rosters right now. I did not count the two players from CIH (not HEO area players).

HEO U18 draft 2017
21 players drafted (two added from Junior) 6 are on OHL rosters right now.

No HEO area player(1 from CIH) is on a OHL roster from the new OHL Midget draft.

I have 42 HEO area players in the OHL right now. 5 were not playing in HEO area when drafted.

 

[nothappy]

Big changes at HEO?
President stepped down?
VP of Development?
Who's next?

 

[ValleyTitans]

Really? Very interesting...

 

[nothappy]

President of Sen's AAA (Myers) stepped down also.

 

[baylormaines]

Sometimes you go too far.

 

[No Skin in the Game]

Why all the resignations?

 

[OttawaDad]

So this is what I have. Early only 5 games into OHL but;

HEO U18 draft 2016
21 drafted from HEO area 11 are on OHL rosters right now. I did not count the two players from CIH (not HEO area players).

HEO U18 draft 2017
21 players drafted (two added from Junior) 6 are on OHL rosters right now.

No HEO area player(1 from CIH) is on a OHL roster from the new OHL Midget draft.

I have 42 HEO area players in the OHL right now. 5 were not playing in HEO area when drafted.

So Jason Clarke is always quick to rip us when we say things he deems 'wrong', so why isn't he just as active giving us insight into what the goals are? Outside of the extra funding and money management towards CCHL teams, I don't see much of a difference? There are no D1 schollarships out of Midget (one of the selling points), no extra kids in the OHL (not one of the selling points, they seem to be anti-OHL vs NCAA). Not much change in the amount of local kids playing in the league...

So what was the point? And what measurements are they using to keep this new system in? The only thing its really helped has been a few kids who couldn't play AAA get into AAA, but then never make the CCHL, so whats the purpose? It would be nice if Jason was just as quick to answer these questions as he is to attack us, but i guess thats out of our control.

 

[freeagent]

So what was the point? And what measurements are they using to keep this new system in? The only thing its really helped has been a few kids who couldn't play AAA get into AAA, but then never make the CCHL, so whats the purpose?

Like Jack Quinn. (Except he is in the CCHL).

 

[Clarke74]

Like Jack Quinn. (Except he is in the CCHL).

Or Ryan Bangs 1st rd package to London.....Ryland Mosley full ride to UAH....also more AP games to kids in Midget the first 2yrs than 9yrs combined for our organization....but I am disappointed that there is no D1 scholarships out of the league yet...not from lack of trying that's for sure....

 

[Clarke74]

So Jason Clarke is always quick to rip us when we say things he deems 'wrong', so why isn't he just as active giving us insight into what the goals are? Outside of the extra funding and money management towards CCHL teams, I don't see much of a difference? There are no D1 schollarships out of Midget (one of the selling points), no extra kids in the OHL (not one of the selling points, they seem to be anti-OHL vs NCAA). Not much change in the amount of local kids playing in the league...

So what was the point? And what measurements are they using to keep this new system in? The only thing its really helped has been a few kids who couldn't play AAA get into AAA, but then never make the CCHL, so whats the purpose? It would be nice if Jason was just as quick to answer these questions as he is to attack us, but i guess thats out of our control.

Rip on guys for repeating themselves for 2 yrs....its a 3 year pilot project....disappointed in a few things for sure...but stuff that I think is out of U18 boards control...more of Minor issues...overall I think the majority like it...but still a year left....with some new initiatives with Minor Tournaments...which the u18 board supported to begin with....see what happens

 

[nothappy]

I find it very interesting that both examples of players moving up to NCAA and Major junior were both players in the Carleton Place system and both never played a full season at CCHL. Why is that?
They are good enough for a level above CCHL but cannot play on one of the best teams in the CCHL. So they were advanced on potential? Did others see something in these players that the leadership in CP did not? I do not know the answer just asking questions.

 

[Clarke74]

I find it very interesting that both examples of players moving up to NCAA and Major junior were both players in the Carleton Place system and both never played a full season at CCHL. Why is that?
They are good enough for a level above CCHL but cannot play on one of the best teams in the CCHL. So they were advanced on potential? Did others see something in these players that the leadership in CP did not? I do not know the answer just asking
Smarter than us i guess...hopefully scouts continue to be smarter than us so kids continue to move on and get drafted to NHL

 

[OttawaDad]

I find it very interesting that both examples of players moving up to NCAA and Major junior were both players in the Carleton Place system and both never played a full season at CCHL. Why is that?
They are good enough for a level above CCHL but cannot play on one of the best teams in the CCHL. So they were advanced on potential? Did others see something in these players that the leadership in CP did not? I do not know the answer just asking questions.

Isn't that kinda the issue? These two players where deemed good enough to play at higher levels, the NCAA and OHL, but there are out of town kids ahead of them in Carlton Place, so they don't get a chance? Two 'wins' for the U18 league and even they can't get into the league.

 

[Clarke74]

Isn't that kinda the issue? These two players where deemed good enough to play at higher levels, the NCAA and OHL, but there are out of town kids ahead of them in Carlton Place, so they don't get a chance? Two 'wins' for the U18 league and even they can't get into the league.

Lets hope the scouts continue to be smarter than we are so our players can continue to move up to OHL NCAA & drafted to NHL under our club system CPC....
its only one win for the U18...15 games played by 02 players this year in Jr B....

 

[OttawaDad]

Lets hope the scouts continue to be smarter than we are so our players can continue to move up to OHL NCAA & drafted to NHL under our club system CPC....
its only one win for the U18...15 games played by 02 players this year in Jr B....

You dodged my question. If these kids are good enough for those programs, they must be good enough for you team. If the goal of the U18 program is to get more players into the CCHL, how can these kids not be good enough? How is it that out of town kids are given priority? Is it about winning, or is it about local talent? Your roster suggests its about winning, which is fine, but lets call a spade a spade.

 

[Clarke74]

You dodged my question. If these kids are good enough for those programs, they must be good enough for you team. If the goal of the U18 program is to get more players into the CCHL, how can these kids not be good enough? How is it that out of town kids are given priority? Is it about winning, or is it about local talent? Your roster suggests its about winning, which is fine, but lets call a spade a spade.

We will continue to move players onto the next level weather it be from our u18 cchl2 cchl...end of story.....club system....

 

[OttawaDad]

We will continue to move players onto the next level weather it be from our u18 cchl2 cchl...end of story.....club system....

So getting more local players into the CCHL isn't a goal? If it was, you would think that those two, who are good enough for both the OHL and D1, would be good enough, local players to make it. It seems odd that the goal is to put local players into the CCHL while recruiting out of town kids to play in their spots.

 

[HockeyVolunteer]

If anyone thinks that the goal is to get more "local" players to the CCHL you are dreaming in technicolor. I doubt you will ever hear anyone associated with the league say it outright but it's all about putting W's on the board. You can't win a championship without having the best players that you can get, just ask the old Gloucester Rangers. They stuck with local talent - to a fault some would argue - and look where they consistently ended up, at the bottom. Jason isn't winning championships by making sure Johnny gets a spot just because he's local talent from HEO. Do I like that, no I don't. Do I understand it, yes I do and no I'm not associated with CPC, I'm from the east end. Face the facts, losing doesn't get you fans, it doesn't get you sponsors, it doesn't pay the bills, so you have to ice the best team that you can. That's the nature of competitive sports.

Then again, what do I know

 

[OttawaDad]

If anyone thinks that the goal is to get more "local" players to the CCHL you are dreaming in technicolor. I doubt you will ever hear anyone associated with the league say it outright but it's all about putting W's on the board. You can't win a championship without having the best players that you can get, just ask the old Gloucester Rangers. They stuck with local talent - to a fault some would argue - and look where they consistently ended up, at the bottom. Jason isn't winning championships by making sure Johnny gets a spot just because he's local talent from HEO. Do I like that, no I don't. Do I understand it, yes I do and no I'm not associated with CPC, I'm from the east end. Face the facts, losing doesn't get you fans, it doesn't get you sponsors, it doesn't pay the bills, so you have to ice the best team that you can. That's the nature of competitive sports.

Then again, what do I know

Trust me, I'm well aware that its not about getting local players into the CCHL, but that was one of the metrics that was used to sell it when it was introduced. They can duck that all they want on here, Clarke did it be refusing to answer, but we know that winning and better out of town players will always take precedent over a locally developed player. Its comical to say otherwise, I mean those two kids are good enough for the OHL and D1 but not Carleton Place? Come on. If it was about local kids, those two guys wouldn't need to play in Jr B, they are obviously good enough to play in the league, but not good enough to WIN with.

Just be honest about it is all, despite the suggesting that its about developing local guys, if it gets them 1 percent better, CCHL teams will go get Toronto kids to fill the spots.

 

[nothappy]

Trust me, I'm well aware that its not about getting local players into the CCHL, but that was one of the metrics that was used to sell it when it was introduced. They can duck that all they want on here, Clarke did it be refusing to answer, but we know that winning and better out of town players will always take precedent over a locally developed player. Its comical to say otherwise, I mean those two kids are good enough for the OHL and D1 but not Carleton Place? Come on. If it was about local kids, those two guys wouldn't need to play in Jr B, they are obviously good enough to play in the league, but not good enough to WIN with.

Just be honest about it is all, despite the suggesting that its about developing local guys, if it gets them 1 percent better, CCHL teams will go get Toronto kids to fill the spots.

Great Post.
Never going to happen.

 

[Easternfan]

Trust me, I'm well aware that its not about getting local players into the CCHL, but that was one of the metrics that was used to sell it when it was introduced. They can duck that all they want on here, Clarke did it be refusing to answer, but we know that winning and better out of town players will always take precedent over a locally developed player. Its comical to say otherwise, I mean those two kids are good enough for the OHL and D1 but not Carleton Place? Come on. If it was about local kids, those two guys wouldn't need to play in Jr B, they are obviously good enough to play in the league, but not good enough to WIN with.

Just be honest about it is all, despite the suggesting that its about developing local guys, if it gets them 1 percent better, CCHL teams will go get Toronto kids to fill the spots.

Both those kids mentioned are very skilled players but I can see Mr. Clarke’s decision not to put them on his CCHL roster. Sorry, I don’t like to name players, but that D who is in the OHL would never crack CP top 6D last year and he is too small and needed a year to physically mature in my opinion. Past history on the kid is that he already broke both collarbones playing against kids his own age so what would happen if he played against players four years older and physically mature?
The 2000 who got a D1 scholarship is lighting up the league in CCHL2 but I couldn’t see him cracking a top two line spot so he is better where he is getting more minutes and being called up.
I am not a CP fan so not being biased....I am just a realistic hockey fan.
Let me give you example of another kid who didn’t make CP as 16 year old and I think he had a great CCHL career. Owen Grant, committed to Vermont out of AAA, played Jr. B his first year with a few CCHL games then after that he only won a few Bogart Cups, RBC appearances, twice on Canada East and his second time being named captain of the team and winning a silver medal.

Mr. Clarke is all about promoting not only players from his team but other CCHL and HEO u18AAA players.

Nothappy and others, how can you come on here and say how poor the quality and skill is in u18AAA but expect more local talent to make CCHL, a league that is always a contender to be in RBC Cup?

Name me one local kid that has excelled elsewhere but never given a chance by a local CCHL club?

 

[nothappy]

how can you come on here and say how poor the quality and skill is in u18AAA but expect more local talent to make CCHL

I have not said the quality of hockey in U 18 is poor in a very long time. I use the numbers of HEO players in CCHL as proof that the U18 league is not working. It is not an opinion its a fact.

Winning in CCHL is about recruiting and buying the best available players with a PDF. Not development.
HEO players moving to NCAA is less or about the same as before U18 so again less development.
U18 players move up when and if good enough but less move up to CCHL every year. That to me means development is down.
It would be great if CCHL management and its puppet were not in U18 minor hockey.
What would be even better is if parents would speak up and demand to see were there money went. Not going to happen because CCHL has all the power and parents are afraid there kid will never make the CCHL.

 

[canadianhockeymom]

We will continue to move players onto the next level weather it be from our u18 cchl2 cchl...end of story.....club system....

OUR U18? Junior owns that? Not true. The end of the story is the Pilot ending this season and hopefully the powers that be around the Minor table pull the plug on it as U18 AAA really isn't feeding the 'business plan' at CCHL1&2 to "Move players onto the next level", as you put it. HEO Minor players that are able to get out of this branch to play hockey elsewhere are the real winners here.

 

[nothappy]

We will continue to move players onto the next level weather it be from our u18 cchl2 cchl...end of story.....club system....

You and how many others in the CJHL have a true club system? Not very many.
Even a team like Smith Falls that owns a CCHL 2 team do not run a true club system they are on 19 Special AP. Please stop changing the facts.
Do the other CCHL teams tell the parents of the U18 players they are not automatically AP'ed in the Club system? I think not.