Ottawa U18 Part 4

nothappy

Registered User
Jun 26, 2015
869
20
The graduates from u18AAA to CCHL this year seem to be fitting in well to start the season and will get better as they get more accustomed. I don't think this league hindered their development at all and players seem more comfortable right away because I think practicing and being called up why CCHL club gave them a good taste of what to expect.

It did not hinder development?
The CCHL has 41% of its players from the HEO area. Down again, 3rd year in a row.
115 HEO area players in CCHL as of Sept 4th 86 of those played at one time in HEO U18 program.
Of the 115 HEO area kids 103 played AAA at some time.
I have 30 U18 players from last year that have moved up to CCHL.
Which league produced more players for CCHL?
The CCHL does not care about HEO area kids. The U 18 league is to make money for The CCHL.
 
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Easternfan

Registered User
Mar 15, 2016
355
0
It did not hinder development?
The CCHL has 41% of its players from the HEO area. Down again, 3rd year in a row.
115 HEO area players in CCHL as of Sept 4th 86 of those played at one time in HEO U18 program.
Of the 115 HEO area kids 103 played AAA at some time.
I have 30 U18 players from last year that have moved up to CCHL.
Which league produced more players for CCHL?
The CCHL does not care about HEO area kids. The U 18 league is to make money for The CCHL.

Nothappy, I am happy CCHL are only taking the players from HEO that are ready to play in it. I think CCHL2 will be better for development this year and some will make the leap next year.

Nothappy, you complain how weak u18AAA is but you want more to play CCHL? Maybe we should allow imports to u18AAA league and have half of them from HEO, is this your solution? Going back to old system won't work anymore because enrollment is dropping each year.
 

nothappy

Registered User
Jun 26, 2015
869
20
Nothappy, I am happy CCHL are only taking the players from HEO that are ready to play in it. I think CCHL2 will be better for development this year and some will make the leap next year.

Nothappy, you complain how weak u18AAA is but you want more to play CCHL? Maybe we should allow imports to u18AAA league and have half of them from HEO, is this your solution? Going back to old system won't work anymore because enrollment is dropping each year.

Enrollment in what?
There are 5 teams with 5 associations at AAA at about 17 kids per team so 85 players + or minus 3/5 players. It has been that way since AAA started.
I have said this so many times. I do not care how junior runs it teams.
I just use the CCHL stats to prove that the U 18 league is about making money for the CCHL teams not about development. They should not be in minor hockey.
They have proven with the U18 league that they cannot develop players for the CCHL. The % of local HEO players in the CCHL has gone down 3 years in a row. You tell me how you think this is development of players.
Instead of coming on hear and supporting the U18 league use something to prove local player development.
 

Sidekick

Registered User
Mar 20, 2013
143
2
I think CCHL2 will be better for development this year and some will make the leap next year.

Yay! Just what I'm excited to see in my local small town...more 'development'

Where once players are half decent, they leave. They aren't from the community and they give little back to the community. What a way to inspire the novice and atom players!
 

nothappy

Registered User
Jun 26, 2015
869
20
Nothappy, I am happy CCHL are only taking the players from HEO that are ready to play in it. I think CCHL2 will be better for development this year and some will make the leap next year.

Nothappy, you complain how weak u18AAA is but you want more to play CCHL? Maybe we should allow imports to u18AAA league and have half of them from HEO, is this your solution? Going back to old system won't work anymore because enrollment is dropping each year.

No I want you and others to realize that the U 18 is a money grab. I use the % of HEO area players to point out that the U 18 league is not working as intended.

Allowing imports is not a solution to help HEO area players but it would bring in more money for the CCHL owners.
 
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Easternfan

Registered User
Mar 15, 2016
355
0
No I want you and others to realize that the U 18 is a money grab. I use the % of HEO area players to point out that the U 18 league is not working as intended.

Allowing imports is not a solution to help HEO area players but it would bring in more money for the CCHL owners.

Only way CCHL will get a higher HEO % is by reducing number of teams which isn't going to happen. We need imports to keep CCHL to help it maintain being one of the top Jr.A leagues in Canada.

My take on u18AAA is it is allowing more players the opportunity to develop and prove themselves against others. There are no more players that kept being the last cut in AAA. Ok, you may argue too many weaker players join as well but I disagree. I was standing with a scout and he couldn't believe how some players actually made AAA and how some never played AAA, he would no clue by watching who played where if he didn't research.

Call it a money grab but point out to me where competitive hockey league or any other sport is not making money? Going to a prep school a better value? CCHL clubs are giving players a great opportunity to prove themselves and that link between u18AAA and CCHL is very valuable because old AAA system some coaches didn't allow their players to affiliate or practice with Jr.A.
 

TheLastShift

Canada
Nov 14, 2007
806
0
Only way CCHL will get a higher HEO % is by reducing number of teams which isn't going to happen. We need imports to keep CCHL to help it maintain being one of the top Jr.A leagues in Canada.

My take on u18AAA is it is allowing more players the opportunity to develop and prove themselves against others. There are no more players that kept being the last cut in AAA. Ok, you may argue too many weaker players join as well but I disagree. I was standing with a scout and he couldn't believe how some players actually made AAA and how some never played AAA, he would no clue by watching who played where if he didn't research.

Call it a money grab but point out to me where competitive hockey league or any other sport is not making money? Going to a prep school a better value? CCHL clubs are giving players a great opportunity to prove themselves and that link between u18AAA and CCHL is very valuable because old AAA system some coaches didn't allow their players to affiliate or practice with Jr.A.

No reason giving your point of view. Nothappy is not happy and will continue to be sour. It's the same song and dance with him/her and nothing you say will make a difference. It's a public forum to voice opinions but it's always the same opinion over and over which is why many stopped responding to the played out posts.
 

Easternfan

Registered User
Mar 15, 2016
355
0
No reason giving your point of view. Nothappy is not happy and will continue to be sour. It's the same song and dance with him/her and nothing you say will make a difference. It's a public forum to voice opinions but it's always the same opinion over and over which is why many stopped responding to the played out posts.

You are right. I come on here hoping to have great discussions which I do with many but it does get tiring listening to the same thing over and over and over.

From now on, I will just give my opinion if it is a constructive discussion.
 

nothappy

Registered User
Jun 26, 2015
869
20
So is the U18 league here to stay? Will there be any changes going forward?

Very good question. Very much depends on if HEO Minor has the courage to put and end to the leadership of the U18 league.In a perfect world, HEO Minor would should step in at U18 and remove and replace the President, Vice President and the treasurer and do a forensic audit of the books of the U18 league and publish the findings.

HEO Minor won most of their appeal to Hockey Canada about who controls/runs minor hockey in the HEO area. The issue appears to be is U18 minor hockey or a form of junior because of who run/controls it.
 

nothappy

Registered User
Jun 26, 2015
869
20
No reason giving your point of view. Nothappy is not happy and will continue to be sour. It's the same song and dance with him/her and nothing you say will make a difference. It's a public forum to voice opinions but it's always the same opinion over and over which is why many stopped responding to the played out posts.

You are correct you will not change my mind but I wish someone could use a better argument than their opinion. They are entitled to their opinion but they never answer questions asked of them, they have no data to back up opinion. You might not like what I say but I try to use the CCHL own data against them.

The CCHL took over Midget hockey in the HEO area using a plan and an info package that basically said they could improve midget hockey in the HEO area. They have not done that. The stats I pointed out over three years has proved that. You and others think that having more kids at what should be an elite level of hockey will improve the quality of hockey and its players. Two years of U18 hockey is proof that it does not work. Not an opinion a fact, less HEO area kids in CCHL is proof. Sending kids to CCHL2 is player advancement but most kids would be better of in Midget again not at CCHL2.
 

MinorHockeyInsider

Registered User
Jul 22, 2015
24
0
I think this league, like anything else, has it's positives and it's negatives. The positive is that it gives players who are late bloomers an opportunity to play at a high level who may not otherwise have been able to. It also appears to be relatively well run and organized. The top end players will still be seen and drafted.

Coaching overall seems to be really solid.

The negative is that it is basically operated like tier 3 of junior hockey which it should not be. It's still minor hockey. Different teams take different levels of advantage of this. Having more than 17 players on the roster without lowering the cost per player is, in my opinion, a cash grab. The lack of financial transparency is the worst part of this league. They solve that and I think most of the negative feedback goes away. The problem is some owners just don't care as displayed by Jason's stance on this (that all AAA hockey makes money). I think parents are OK with that as long as they get something back and know how the money is being spent. A financial statement per team would solve this - even if it had a line stating "Profit"...
 

OttawaDad

Registered User
May 15, 2015
173
2
General question, I may very well have incorrect facts.

The commish pointed to the OHL U18 draft as a reason why the league was working. How many of those players made OHL teams? If its a small number, whats the point?

Sorry, but if we are not seeing an increase in players in the OHL, no D1 commits out of U18 (it was a selling point, that they would get colleges infront of U18 players, they always claim the stands are filled with colleges at U18 games), and not much change in the stats for HEO players in CCHL, whats the point of all this? I mean, really, assuming the above is correct, the only ones who are benefiting are the ones who make a financial profit.

Could be wrong, but?
 

nothappy

Registered User
Jun 26, 2015
869
20
I think this league, like anything else, has it's positives and it's negatives. The positive is that it gives players who are late bloomers an opportunity to play at a high level who may not otherwise have been able to. It also appears to be relatively well run and organized. The top end players will still be seen and drafted.

Coaching overall seems to be really solid.

The negative is that it is basically operated like tier 3 of junior hockey which it should not be. It's still minor hockey. Different teams take different levels of advantage of this. Having more than 17 players on the roster without lowering the cost per player is, in my opinion, a cash grab. The lack of financial transparency is the worst part of this league. They solve that and I think most of the negative feedback goes away. The problem is some owners just don't care as displayed by Jason's stance on this (that all AAA hockey makes money). I think parents are OK with that as long as they get something back and know how the money is being spent. A financial statement per team would solve this - even if it had a line stating "Profit"...


Late bloomers (players that are considered older? So 17 year olds, the 3rd year of midget hockey. Correct? Then why is there a limit of three late bloomers per team? Makes no sense.

The coaching is the same as AAA some are real good others not so much. Not an improvement over AAA.

If the U18 teams make a profit and was to keep the profit at U18 maybe I could live with that but IMO the profit gets kicked up to CCHL.
 
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nothappy

Registered User
Jun 26, 2015
869
20
General question, I may very well have incorrect facts.

The commish pointed to the OHL U18 draft as a reason why the league was working. How many of those players made OHL teams? If its a small number, whats the point?

Sorry, but if we are not seeing an increase in players in the OHL, no D1 commits out of U18 (it was a selling point, that they would get colleges infront of U18 players, they always claim the stands are filled with colleges at U18 games), and not much change in the stats for HEO players in CCHL, whats the point of all this? I mean, really, assuming the above is correct, the only ones who are benefiting are the ones who make a financial profit.

Could be wrong, but?

OHL teams are not formed completely yet I can have a answer once the season starts. My educated guess would be very few HEO area kids make OHL from the U18 draft. More later.
 

Clarke74

Registered User
May 7, 2015
376
10
I think this league, like anything else, has it's positives and it's negatives. The positive is that it gives players who are late bloomers an opportunity to play at a high level who may not otherwise have been able to. It also appears to be relatively well run and organized. The top end players will still be seen and drafted.

Coaching overall seems to be really solid.

The negative is that it is basically operated like tier 3 of junior hockey which it should not be. It's still minor hockey. Different teams take different levels of advantage of this. Having more than 17 players on the roster without lowering the cost per player is, in my opinion, a cash grab. The lack of financial transparency is the worst part of this league. They solve that and I think most of the negative feedback goes away. The problem is some owners just don't care as displayed by Jason's stance on this (that all AAA hockey makes money). I think parents are OK with that as long as they get something back and know how the money is being spent. A financial statement per team would solve this - even if it had a line stating "Profit"...[/QUOTE]

Late bloomers (players that are considered older? So 17 year olds, the 3rd year of midget hockey. Correct? Then why is there a limit of three late bloomers per team? Makes no sense.

The coaching is the same as AAA some are real good others not so much. Not an improvement over AAA.

If the U18 teams make a profit and was to keep the profit at U18 maybe I could live with that but IMO the profit gets kicked up to CCHL.

Thats the whole point.....dont want midgwt run like Minor Hockey....needs to be run like a Jr program....on the ice everyday, video, workouts....minor hockey guys on here have no clue....
 

nothappy

Registered User
Jun 26, 2015
869
20
Watched all games last night left before the last game was over 20 min drive home got home at 1030.
What time does a player get home after a hard fought game, and long drive?
What time do they finally fall asleep? Do they get up and go to school the next day?

The executive and owners of these teams should be ashamed of themselves.
Nobody cares about the players.
 
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MinorHockeyInsider

Registered User
Jul 22, 2015
24
0
Watched all games last night left before the last game was over 20 min drive home got home at 1030.
What time does a player get home after a hard fought game, and long drive?
What time do they finally fall asleep? Do they get up and go to school the next day?

The executive and owners of these teams should be ashamed of themselves.
Nobody cares about the players.

This isn't unique to the HEO Midget loop at all. In the GTHL weekday games routinely start after 9PM and players still have long drives home. This happens with midget hockey everywhere.
 

valleydude

Registered User
Mar 16, 2011
815
7
Watched all games last night left before the last game was over 20 min drive home got home at 1030.
What time does a player get home after a hard fought game, and long drive?
What time do they finally fall asleep? Do they get up and go to school the next day?

The executive and owners of these teams should be ashamed of themselves.
Nobody cares about the players.

This hasn't changed with U18. It starts in AA when players can drive 70 miles to practice (Osgoode to Kinburn) ending at 10 and was common in the old AAA. The Titans would practice till 10PM in Beachburg, that's a lot later than a 10:30 arrival home.
 

Easternfan

Registered User
Mar 15, 2016
355
0
Watched all games last night left before the last game was over 20 min drive home got home at 1030.
What time does a player get home after a hard fought game, and long drive?
What time do they finally fall asleep? Do they get up and go to school the next day?

The executive and owners of these teams should be ashamed of themselves.
Nobody cares about the players.

Latest game to start on Monday nights now is 9:15pm. Last year, there were games starting at 9:30 and 9:45 plus I think whoever thought put schedule together thought about weekend logistics as well meaning not putting Cornwall as the 9pm game in Pembroke and not making Pembroke play the most late games as well as most travel time. It isn't perfect but schedule has improved in my opinion. It is Midget so 9pm games were normal before anyways. Just checked Minor Bantam AAA and they start some games at 8:30pm and more travel time then a majority of u18AAA team families.
 

HockeyVolunteer

Registered User
Jan 8, 2016
99
2
What time does a player get home after a hard fought game, and long drive?
What time do they finally fall asleep? Do they get up and go to school the next day?

I'm not a fan of the late game either, but lets be realistic here. I have a 16 year old and I know for a fact that no matter how much I tell him, he doesn't go to sleep much before midnight on a regular basis. You're talking about 1 night a week, so yeah, I'd say they get up and go to school the next day with no problem at all.
 

stickhandle

Registered User
Jul 4, 2007
351
82
Looks like league is sending 4 teams 2 15yr old and 2 16,17 yr old teams to Peterborough tourney in Jan. , good exposure:handclap:
 

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