Proposal: Ottawa - St. Louis

[Maurice of Orange]

Acquires: LW Alex Steen and LD Vince Dunn

Acquires: RD Christian Jaros

St. Louis trades the last year of Steen’s contract (5.75mil x 1) since he’ll probably end up on LTIRetired and trade (RFA) Dunn with Steen as Ottawa is going to want something for Steen’s dumped contract.

Dunn is probably the equivalent of two 2nd’s and seeing as Ottawa has enough 2nd round picks the Sens would probably want a roster player back.

Jaros (RFA) is just a throw in to St. Louis since the Blues would probably recall one of Mikkola, Perunovich or Walman to fill the spot left by Dunn’s departure and keep Jaros in the AHL.

This trade for St.Louis would be for cap space and to open up roster spots for their prospects.

Click to read more...

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Easy trade for the Sens to say yes to. Switch Jaros to Wolanin to make it a little bit more fair.

 

[bleedblue1223]

And why does St. Louis do this?

 

[cakeschmammert]

This makes absolutely zero sense for the Blues. If Steen goes to Robidas Island like you say, why would they need to dump him?

 

[Maurice of Orange]

Easy trade for the Sens to say yes to. Switch Jaros to Wolanin to make it a little bit more fair.

I Always try to be fair. Its not an exciting deal just a cap dump hockey trade.
St. Louis gets cap space, Ottawa gets a roster player.

 

[Clamshells]

The time to do this was before AP signed in Vegas

 

[cakeschmammert]

I Always try to be fair. Its not an exciting deal just a cap dump hockey trade.
St. Louis gets cap space, Ottawa gets a roster player.

Steen going on LTIR is already cap space, so exactly what cap space are you creating for them?

 

[Maurice of Orange]

This makes absolutely zero sense for the Blues. If Steen goes to Robidas Island like you say, why would they need to dump him?

There is an outside chance that Steen may play this season so it hasn’t been definitely decided that Steen will sit on LTIR all season.

If Tarasenko, Steen and a resigned Dunn are all on the Blues roster at some point then a move has to be made somewhere along the line.

 

[sfvega]

This makes absolutely zero sense for the Blues. If Steen goes to Robidas Island like you say, why would they need to dump him?

This. When we were in the mindset of trying to keep Petro cutting money (including Dunn) was a priority. Now, who cares? Steen to LTIR and Dunn signs a short deal. Maybe he ends up dealt, he's definitely a piece we could afford to lose to add elsewhere. But we don't give him away to get rid of 1 year of a guy who is likely to retire. Not sure why the OP knows what is going to happen with Steen and still thinks we need this deal, trading Dunn for a "throw in" according to him when he could just as easily slot in to our LTIR as Ottawa's.

 

[Maurice of Orange]

This. When we were in the mindset of trying to keep Petro cutting money (including Dunn) was a priority. Now, who cares? Steen to LTIR and Dunn signs a short deal. Maybe he ends up dealt, he's definitely a piece we could afford to lose to add elsewhere. But we don't give him away to get rid of 1 year of a guy who is likely to retire. Not sure why the OP knows what is going to happen with Steen and still thinks we need this deal, trading Dunn for a "throw in" according to him when he could just as easily slot in to our LTIR as Ottawa's.

If Dunn resigns with the Blues for say somewhere around 2.5mil aav and then Tarasenko and Steen are healthy and ready to return to the lineup that would probably put St. Louis 3-4mil over the cap.

If a player is healthy a team cannot keep a healthy player on LTIR.

If the Blues deny Steen the right to return to the lineup if healthy the blues could incur a penalty for being over the salary cap limit.

 

[Got One Cup]

If Dunn resigns with the Blues for say somewhere around 2.5mil aav and then Tarasenko and Steen are healthy and ready to return to the lineup that would probably put St. Louis 3-4mil over the cap.

If a player is healthy a team cannot keep a healthy player on LTIR.

If the Blues deny Steen the right to return to the lineup if healthy the blues could incur a penalty for being over the salary cap limit.

Did Tarasenko’s shoulder magically repair itself without me knowing? He was out most of last season after the surgery so how would he be healthy so soon after the same surgery this time?

 

[Mrfenn92]

Easy yes from the sens. No reason for the blues to do it. Put steen on robidas island as a few have said and sign Dunn on day 1 of season.

 

[Karl Eriksson]

Yes

 

[sfvega]

If Dunn resigns with the Blues for say somewhere around 2.5mil aav and then Tarasenko and Steen are healthy and ready to return to the lineup that would probably put St. Louis 3-4mil over the cap.

If a player is healthy a team cannot keep a healthy player on LTIR.

If the Blues deny Steen the right to return to the lineup if healthy the blues could incur a penalty for being over the salary cap limit.

We started this thread with you saying Steen is likely LTIRetired and Tarasenko is coming off his 3rd shoulder surgery in 3 years when his big shot is his bread and butter. I'm not sure even if Tank made a miraculous recovery that we would get called out for him "failing a physical" on a shoulder that may be headed for another surgery before his career is all said and done.

 

[Maurice of Orange]

We started this thread with you saying Steen is likely LTIRetired and Tarasenko is coming off his 3rd shoulder surgery in 3 years when his big shot is his bread and butter. I'm not sure even if Tank made a miraculous recovery that we would get called out for him "failing a physical" on a shoulder that may be headed for another surgery before his career is all said and done.

I said Steen may probably end up on LTIR I did not say he would end up staying on LTIR all season and according to Steen he plans on playing sometime during the 20-21 season.

Tarasenko had another surgery on his shoulder on Aug 26th 2020 from reports and has a 5 month timeline for reevaluations at the end of December or early January when the new season may being. If all goes well Tarasenko could possibly return in late February or March.

As I stated before if Tank, Steen and Resigned Dunn are on the roster at the same time which could very well be possible St. Louis would have to make a move.

If I’m St. Louis GM I make a move before the season starts rather then have to deal with being over the cap if everyone returns to health.

Teams found to have violated the cap face fines of up to $5 million, cancellation of contracts, loss of draft picks, loss of points and/or forfeiture of game(s) determined to have been affected by the violation of the cap.

I know it hurts to lose a Vince Dunn or any other player that can help your team win but would you rather dump Steen’s contract and only send a roster player with him or would you rather risk the chance of incurring a cap penalty down the line.

It’s not like Dunn can’t be replaced St. Louis has Mikkola and Petrunovich that play LD and might even project to be better then Dunn in the long run.

 

[cakeschmammert]

I said Steen may probably end up on LTIR I did not say he would end up staying on LTIR all season and according to Steen he plans on playing sometime during the 20-21 season.

Tarasenko had another surgery on his shoulder on Aug 26th 2020 from reports and has a 5 month timeline for reevaluations at the end of December or early January when the new season may being. If all goes well Tarasenko could possibly return in late February or March.

As I stated before if Tank, Steen and Resigned Dunn are on the roster at the same time which could very well be possible St. Louis would have to make a move.

If I’m St. Louis GM I make a move before the season starts rather then have to deal with being over the cap if everyone returns to health.

Teams found to have violated the cap face fines of up to $5 million, cancellation of contracts, loss of draft picks, loss of points and/or forfeiture of game(s) determined to have been affected by the violation of the cap.

I know it hurts to lose a Vince Dunn or any other player that can help your team win but would you rather dump Steen’s contract and only send a roster player with him or would you rather risk the chance of incurring a cap penalty down the line.

It’s not like Dunn can’t be replaced St. Louis has Mikkola and Petrunovich that play LD and might even project to be better then Dunn in the long run.

Even if that were the case, the solution would not be to trade away one of our best young assets for nothing. We could easily trade Bozak without giving up anything.

 

[sfvega]

I said Steen may probably end up on LTIR I did not say he would end up staying on LTIR all season and according to Steen he plans on playing sometime during the 20-21 season.

Tarasenko had another surgery on his shoulder on Aug 26th 2020 from reports and has a 5 month timeline for reevaluations at the end of December or early January when the new season may being. If all goes well Tarasenko could possibly return in late February or March.

As I stated before if Tank, Steen and Resigned Dunn are on the roster at the same time which could very well be possible St. Louis would have to make a move.

If I’m St. Louis GM I make a move before the season starts rather then have to deal with being over the cap if everyone returns to health.

Teams found to have violated the cap face fines of up to $5 million, cancellation of contracts, loss of draft picks, loss of points and/or forfeiture of game(s) determined to have been affected by the violation of the cap.

I know it hurts to lose a Vince Dunn or any other player that can help your team win but would you rather dump Steen’s contract and only send a roster player with him or would you rather risk the chance of incurring a cap penalty down the line.

It’s not like Dunn can’t be replaced St. Louis has Mikkola and Petrunovich that play LD and might even project to be better then Dunn in the long run.

I mean, your offer sucks. It's not really hard to just come out and say "Yeah, maybe this ain't it." instead of doubling down.

Great job explaining the situation we've been discussing all off-season and prior to that though. We really learned a lot.

 

[Djp]

The time to do this was before AP signed in Vegas

Yes...but St. Louis has cap problems now bring over the cap and Dunn unsigned. St. Louis needs to move one of these higher 2 yr left players

 

[sfvega]

Even if that were the case, the solution would not be to trade away one of our best young assets for nothing. We could easily trade Bozak without giving up anything.

One of our only young assets. Dunn is the best cost-controlled trade chip we have that isn't a given to be on the team in the future like Thomas or Kyrou. Trading him is something many of us have come to terms with, and it makes sense. But trading him for no return to get out of a contract that isn't really an issue anymore? Silliness.

 

[Maurice of Orange]

One of our only young assets. Dunn is the best cost-controlled trade chip we have that isn't a given to be on the team in the future like Thomas or Kyrou. Trading him is something many of us have come to terms with, and it makes sense. But trading him for no return to get out of a contract that isn't really an issue anymore? Silliness.

How is being over the cap not a issue. Either way St. Louis could be in a bad way if everyone is healthy.

Others have suggested trading Bozak, but Bozak is much older at 34 and on a bigger cap hit at 5mil.
Teams that are rebuilding aren’t going to add that kinda hit and age without wanting something else in return that is of some kinda value .

I don’t see how I’m doubling down when St. Louis is over the cap by 3-4mil if everyone is healthy, I’m just having a friendly conversation but your points are noted.

I know the Blues fans wouldn’t like this deal but the reality is the cap could be a big issue to Doug Armstrong if everyone is healthy.
He does have other options which would include waiving decent players if they are over the cap.

 

[cakeschmammert]

The only reason Bozak hasn’t been traded yet is because of his NTC that expires January 29th. Neither Steen or Tarasenko will be back by then (if the season even starts by then to begin with). This is such a non-issue and I’m tired of being gaslighted by other fanbases that are just trying to take advantage of a situation that doesn’t exist.

 

[cakeschmammert]

How is being over the cap not a issue. Either way St. Louis could be in a bad way if everyone is healthy.

Others have suggested trading Bozak, but Bozak is much older at 34 and on a bigger cap hit at 5mil.
Teams that are rebuilding aren’t going to add that kinda hit and age without wanting something else in return that is of some kinda value .

I don’t see how I’m doubling down when St. Louis is over the cap by 3-4mil if everyone is healthy, I’m just having a friendly conversation but your points are noted.

I know the Blues fans wouldn’t like this deal but the reality is the cap could be a big issue to Doug Armstrong if everyone is healthy.
He does have other options which would include waiving decent players if they are over the cap.

Bozak is still a serviceable middle-six two-way center on the last year of his deal. We would give up a pick along with him before we were to trade away Dunn (though I don’t think that would even be necessary). He would provide decent enough veteran depth to a playoff team, so he’s not going to be as hard of a sell as people like to make it seem in order to push their “give us Dunn for free” agenda.

 

[Maurice of Orange]

Bozak is still a serviceable middle-six two-way center on the last year of his deal. We would give up a pick along with him before we were to trade away Dunn (though I don’t think that would even be necessary). He would provide decent enough veteran depth to a playoff team, so he’s not going to be as hard of a sell as people like to make it seem in order to push their “give us Dunn for free” agenda.

I understand your POV and where your coming from.

Looking at St.Louis’ middle 6, Bozak could probably be had with a pick but that leaves a hole in the middle 6 only for a season but Kyrou or Kostin could probably take his spot since the Blues are set down the middle with Schenn, O’Reilly and Thomas holding down 1,2,3C spots and need wingers like Kyrou and Kostin to step into the lineup.

I was also looking at the Blues on defense and see Dunn as an RFA with competition on the LD with Krug, Scandella and Gunnarsson holding down the left side.
Gunnarsson is a UFA at the end of the 20-21 season so it’s conceivable that Dunn could take Gunnarsson’s spot full time in 21-22 with either Mikkola or Petrunovich as the 7th defenseman on the 21-22 season.

So it’s just a question if another GM would bite on Bozak and a pick and maybe even a small retention on Bozak. St. Louis doesn’t have a 2nd round pick in 2021 so it would have to be 2022 or 2023 2nd if a pick is going with Bozak. I can’t see the Blues letting a 1st go with Bozak unless the trading team is interested in a prospect that’s equivalent of a 2nd round pick in value.

 

[cakeschmammert]

I understand your POV and where your coming from.

Looking at St.Louis’ middle 6, Bozak could probably be had with a pick but that leaves a hole in the middle 6 only for a season but Kyrou or Kostin could probably take his spot since the Blues are set down the middle with Schenn, O’Reilly and Thomas holding down 1,2,3C spots and need wingers like Kyrou and Kostin to step into the lineup.

I was also looking at the Blues on defense and see Dunn as an RFA with competition on the LD with Krug, Scandella and Gunnarsson holding down the left side.
Gunnarsson is a UFA at the end of the 20-21 season so it’s conceivable that Dunn could take Gunnarsson’s spot full time in 21-22 with either Mikkola or Petrunovich as the 7th defenseman on the 21-22 season.

So it’s just a question if another GM would bite on Bozak and a pick and maybe even a small retention on Bozak. St. Louis doesn’t have a 2nd round pick in 2021 so it would have to be 2022 or 2023 2nd if a pick is going with Bozak. I can’t see the Blues letting a 1st go with Bozak unless the trading team is interested in a prospect that’s equivalent of a 2nd round pick in value.

It’s not that I think Dunn is untouchable. I really like Dunn, but if Perunovich is as good as he’s projected to be, Dunn becomes kinda redundant with Krug and Perunovich as LHD with similar play styles. If he were to be moved, I think it would be for a young goal scorer of similar value (think something like DeBrusk or Buchnevich).

 

[Colt55]

There is an outside chance that Steen may play this season so it hasn’t been definitely decided that Steen will sit on LTIR all season.

If Tarasenko, Steen and a resigned Dunn are all on the Blues roster at some point then a move has to be made somewhere along the line.

Actually you are wrong. Steen will not be playing this year. 5.75mil free. That pays for dunns 3mil. Tarasenko will miss 50 to 75% of the regular shorten season which clears about 5 mil. So thats 10 right there. Absolutely no need to do this deal. Lol