Ottawa/Detroit/New Jersey/Buffalo: Which team will breakout first?

[Rydev]

Lol. If(matter of when) Stutzle breaks out.

PPG 2 way C
40 goal 2 way C
Shane Pinto

NJD is not touching that. Mercer is a winger.

Bratt is comparable to Batherson. NJD has no answer to Tkachuk. Ottawa has more superior younger depth.

Pinto, Brown, Formenton, Joseph, Greig vs Wood, Sharagovich, Bouqvist, ?

EDIT: Forgot Holtz. Depending on how he develops, could make things interesting.

Stuetzle hasnt played more games at center this season then four other centers, so not sure how hes labeled a center yet

And whos this PPG center you speak of? I dont see anyone on Ottawa near that besides a winger in Batherson

 

[Rydev]

Dang, that's like the last thing they need

- Josh Norris : 42 goals in his last 77 games, has shown last season he can play against top competition and do pretty well (not saying I believe this is gospel but still interesting to look at) :

View attachment 526637


- Tim Stutzle, has transitioned to Center on November 24th and has 35 pts in 51 games since (56 pts pace over 82 games). That's good 2nd line numbers and since he turned 20 y/o in january and is a high talent, I think the best is yet to come for him

- Shane Pinto : guy missed all season but assuming the injury doesn't affect him going forward, he's going to be a heck of a player

There's others but considering these 3 guys are between 20 and 22 y/o, I think they're pretty much set at this position.

What they need is new ownership (well, now it's true, RIP Eugene), new management and new coaching (I like DJ and wish he was an assistant coach)

Dont think forcing Stuetzle to center is the move but if thats what Ottawa wants, then so be it

 

[illpucks]

Those are ideally second fiddle guys. Contenders need a guy or two better than that

idk Draisaitl started with 9 points in 37 games and now he's 110 pt pace every year. So it's possible one of those guys can do the same.

 

[NyQuil]

Dont think forcing Stuetzle to center is the move but if thats what Ottawa wants, then so be it

You're out of your depth on this one.

As an East-West player, he's a much better centre than a winger and that's why he's playing there now.

 

[Rydev]

You're out of your depth on this one.

As an East-West player, he's a much better centre than a winger and that's why he's playing there now.

Perhaps thats the case; I swore I remember Tim saying he preferred wing when he was a rookie, though I could have fabricated that in my mind.

And while East-West players do often play center, this is going to be a far more common trait among youngsters coming into the league over the next decade, as the game begins to get away from the boards more.

 

[NyQuil]

Perhaps thats the case; I swore I remember Tim saying he preferred wing when he was a rookie, though I could have fabricated that in my mind.

And while East-West players do often play center, this is going to be a far more common trait among youngsters coming into the league over the next decade, as the game begins to get away from the boards more.

Here's an article that talks about it:

Because it’s his natural position, the position he grew up playing in Germany, Stützle has been way more confident in his game with and without the puck.

In recent interviews, you can hear it in his voice. Even with the injury to Josh Norris, the team’s top line centre, Stützle hasn’t missed a beat. When asked about all of the injuries, and his role in the interim he said that he wants, “to create most of the offense,” and that he, “like(s) playing under pressure.”

Senators' Tim Stützle Needs to Stay at Centre - The Hockey Writers Latest News, Analysis & More

Since his move to centre, there are many reasons why Tim Stützle is thriving, and why the Ottawa Senators shouldn't move him back to wing.

thehockeywriters.com

 

[Rydev]

Here's an article that talks about it:

Senators' Tim Stützle Needs to Stay at Centre - The Hockey Writers Latest News, Analysis & More

Since his move to centre, there are many reasons why Tim Stützle is thriving, and why the Ottawa Senators shouldn't move him back to wing.

thehockeywriters.com

Hopefully thats what he prefers because its a better fit for them, if he can excel there. Always want a center over a winger

However I took to Google to try and find what I was referencing, and it was an interview of Dorion on TSN 1200; summed up he stated Stuetzle would not be a center and it was what he preferred

And actually, from googling, it seems it was mentioned on this website as well by an Ottawa fan. I so happened to see it from an article that I cant seem to find, unfortunately

However whatever Stuetzle prefers and excels at is best, and if they differ I tend to let the player make the decision. Im a big fan of German prospects the last half decade and going forward, a rising market in the hockey world

 

[NyQuil]

However I took to Google to try and find what I was referencing, and it was an interview of Dorion on TSN 1200; summed up he stated Stuetzle would not be a center and it was what he preferred

And actually, from googling, it seems it was mentioned on this website as well by an Ottawa fan. I so happened to see it from an article that I cant seem to find, unfortunately

However whatever Stuetzle prefers and excels at is best, and if they differ I tend to let the player make the decision. Im a big fan of German prospects the last half decade and going forward, a rising market in the hockey world

What happened with Stutzle was that he was moved to the wing from his natural position when he was playing against men as a junior-aged player in the DEL where he was undersized and inexperienced.

When he transitioned to the NHL, the same thing happened where management noted that playing centre comes with a lot of responsibility defensively as well and that they'd rather have him play his rookie season without that kind of added pressure.

Personally, I think I'd be surprised if he goes back to the wing (aside from temporary need) as I think he's much better suited to play centre and it shows on the ice.

 

[Xspyrit]

Somebody forgot the Devils were in this poll…

Stutzle (8 months younger) vs Hughes
Norris (4 months younger) vs Hischier
Pinto vs Mercer (11 months younger)

I'm comfortable with these going forward. Both teams are totally set at that position (assuming Mercer plays C as I see he has played 1/3 of his shifts at RW). This will be an interesting matchup to follow

Sens
Wings
Devils/Sabres (not in order)

I like the Sens core the most. Next season they’ll have a healthy Pinto and will have added Sanderson. I could see the core come together and break out. All have ties to one another in some way too. Very tight knit group.

There's a guy people don't know/talk much about but Ridly Greig will be a beast. Mads Sogaard has extremely high potential too. This is how we voted the u-25 group last summer (their age last July) :

1- Tim Stützle (19)
2- Thomas Chabot (24)
3- Brady Tkachuk (21)
4- Jake Sanderson (19)
5- Josh Norris (22)
6- Drake Batherson (23)
7- Shane Pinto (20)
8- Tyler Boucher (18)
9- Erik Brännström (21)
10- Alex Formenton (21)
11- Ridly Greig (18)
12- Filip Gustavsson (23)
13- Jacob Bernard-Docker (21)
14- Egor Sokolov (21)
15- Colin White (24)
16- Mads Søgaard (20)
17- Logan Brown (23)
18- Roby Järventie (18)
19- Tyler Kleven (19)
20- Leevi Meriläinen (18)

Some changes since, Boucher and Brannstrom were too high, Greig too low (he should be 8th). You can probably add Mathieu Joseph too (turned 25 y/o in January). Lassi Thomson would make that top-20 now, maybe a few more guys too to replace Logan Brown and Merilainen. White would drop a few spots too. Swap Gustavsson and Sogaard.

They will be good soon, despite management doing their best to sabotage things up.

Dont think forcing Stuetzle to center is the move but if thats what Ottawa wants, then so be it

Wait, do you think we know nothing about hockey? That we don't follow our favorite team very closely? Ownership and management has frustrated us a lot of times in the last few years but this is still our favorite team, we know a lot about what is going on. Stutzle has not been forced at center at all. There was injuries, he had an opportunity and seized it. The thing is, he's just scratching the surface.

According to LWL, he has played 79% of the season at center, after starting on the wing

 

[Rydev]

Stutzle (8 months younger) vs Hughes
Norris (4 months younger) vs Hischier
Pinto vs Mercer (11 months younger)

I'm comfortable with these going forward. Both teams are totally set at that position (assuming Mercer plays C as I see he has played 1/3 of his shifts at RW). This will be an interesting matchup to follow



There's a guy people don't know/talk much about but Ridly Greig will be a beast. Mads Sogaard has extremely high potential too. This is how we voted the u-25 group last summer (their age last July) :

1- Tim Stützle (19)
2- Thomas Chabot (24)
3- Brady Tkachuk (21)
4- Jake Sanderson (19)
5- Josh Norris (22)
6- Drake Batherson (23)
7- Shane Pinto (20)
8- Tyler Boucher (18)
9- Erik Brännström (21)
10- Alex Formenton (21)
11- Ridly Greig (18)
12- Filip Gustavsson (23)
13- Jacob Bernard-Docker (21)
14- Egor Sokolov (21)
15- Colin White (24)
16- Mads Søgaard (20)
17- Logan Brown (23)
18- Roby Järventie (18)
19- Tyler Kleven (19)
20- Leevi Meriläinen (18)

Some changes since, Boucher and Brannstrom were too high, Greig too low (he should be 8th). You can probably add Mathieu Joseph too (turned 25 y/o in January). Lassi Thomson would make that top-20 now, maybe a few more guys too to replace Logan Brown and Merilainen. White would drop a few spots too. Swap Gustavsson and Sogaard.

They will be good soon, despite management doing their best to sabotage things up.



Wait, do you think we know nothing about hockey? That we don't follow our favorite team very closely? Ownership and management has frustrated us a lot of times in the last few years but this is still our favorite team, we know a lot about what is going on. Stutzle has not been forced at center at all. There was injuries, he had an opportunity and seized it. The thing is, he's just scratching the surface.

According to LWL, he has played 79% of the season at center, after starting on the wing

I had that conversation with @NyQuil above us, where I stated what I read about Stuetzle's supposed preference at wing and Dorion seeing his fit there

Whether dispelled or not, its not like Im rooting against the kid. I just dont think good play at center necessarily means bad play at wing for him (in the future); Jesper Boqvist is my example from the Devils of this. Some kids just improve in a new role and are never really put back somewhere else, when in actuality they could have started excelling due to better usage, more consistent ice time, or even just more confidence and general growth due to age.

If Stuetzle went back to wing for next seasons start next to Norris, for example, I dont think hed look any more out of place than he did at center this season. Very few players truly demand the middle of the ice and have to play center to be anywhere near their best.

But if he stays at center than good for Ottawa, because a winger is easier to find anyway

 

[Xspyrit]

I had that conversation with @NyQuil above us, where I stated what I read about Stuetzle's supposed preference at wing and Dorion seeing his fit there

Whether dispelled or not, its not like Im rooting against the kid. I just dont think good play at center necessarily means bad play at wing for him (in the future); Jesper Boqvist is my example from the Devils of this. Some kids just improve in a new role and are never really put back somewhere else, when in actuality they could have started excelling due to better usage, more consistent ice time, or even just more confidence and general growth due to age.

If Stuetzle went back to wing for next seasons start next to Norris, for example, I dont think hed look any more out of place than he did at center this season. Very few players truly demand the middle of the ice and have to play center to be anywhere near their best.

But if he stays at center than good for Ottawa, because a winger is easier to find anyway

I didn't read everything but I have seen it. It would be surprising if Stutzle is not a pure center going forward, he really fits there more naturally. He's a Center

 

[sabremike]

I find it hard to believe that none of the current Sabres are franchise forwards. Whether it be Krebs or Tage or Cozens etc, lots of potential franchise guys just unclear who will step up.

The guy scoring goals in the AHL at a historic rate for his age?

 

[WingsMJN2965]

Stutzle (8 months younger) vs Hughes
Norris (4 months younger) vs Hischier
Pinto vs Mercer (11 months younger)

I'm comfortable with these going forward. Both teams are totally set at that position (assuming Mercer plays C as I see he has played 1/3 of his shifts at RW). This will be an interesting matchup to follow

Both are good and both are way better than the mess Detroit has down the middle. My point was, it’s pretty hard to declare Ottawa over NJD at this point or going forward.

Assuming Stutzle pans out as good as Hughes would be ambitious at this point. (He is going to be very good, not saying he isn’t) I’d say at best Norris and Hischier are on par. (I’d take Hischier) And we haven’t seen enough of Pinto to say he’s better or worse than Mercer.

 

[PettersonHughes]

As a neutral fan, I wonder if it's something like this order

Sens (deepest talent wise in most positions, plus they have guys working their way up; is there a franchise goalie e.g. do you guys see Sogaard as the guy?)
Detroit (probably a step below the Sens, in that there is talent in most positions e.g. Larkin C, Raymond/ Bertuzzi/ Vrana W, Seider + Edvinsson D, Ned+ in goal, but maybe the depth isn't as good up front?)
Devils (you guys have Hughes and some intriguing forwards, but if Blackwood wants out is there another ready #1 who can keep the team competitive? Daws is solid and there were some nice moves to patch up the back end e.g. getting Graves/ Hamilton/ Severson)
Sabres (there are many good pieces here - Thompson, Olofsson, Tuch, Krebs, Mittlestadt, Cozens, Dahlin... but the group really needs to gel up front, plus I'm not sure there's much there on D besides Dahlin, and then there's the goaltending [Anderson is good but getting old, Tokarski shouldn't be getting the nod all that often, and will UPL have a Markstrom-style breakout? If he does then I'd have more hope in their future)

 

[BlueBaron]

I trust Steve Yserman.

 

[Drytoast]

Detroit is getting close...Ottawa needs an owner, not even sure on it's future let alone it's ability to develop or retain talent.

 

[GermanSpitfire]

Pick one of the Devils, Sens or to a lesser extent the Sabres.

Yzerman wants a lottery ticket to Bedard/Michkov so it won’t be them.

Ottawa has already stated that progress must be made next season, New Jersey is in a similar spot and Buffalo may surprise.

 

[SenzZen]

Lol Pinto vs Mercer does not favour the Sens.

Mercer is tracking like a Bergeron clone.

 

[Stewie Griffin]

New Jersey easily. Hughes is probably the best young player on any of the 4 teams right now, and they have Hischier and Mercer behind him (with Holtz going to slide onto one of their wings). Once they get a goalie (which none of the other 3 have either right now) they'll be much more competitive.

 

[RedWingzz]

Ottawa had their best forward, Batherson, out for 2 months, their top centre Norris, out for a significant span, their 3rd line C, Pinto, out for most of the season, and their other 3/4 C Colin White out for substantial amounts of time.

Now our #1 D, Thomas Chabot is out for the rest of the season, after being hurt eariler, and Jake Sanderson who was supposed to make his debut was injured one game into the Olympics only to get injured again when returning to UND.

Matt Murray, our #1 goalie is likely out for the season again. Thankfully Forsberg has stepped up.

We also got hit with COVID when they weren’t cancelling games due to illness so we just had to make do.

I would like to see how this team could score if we could stay healthy.

Injuries are part of the NHL. Every team deals with injuries.

 

[NyQuil]

Here are the P/GP for "up and coming players" across the four teams (minimum 35 GP):

1. Jack Hughes NJD 1.14 (20)
2. Drake Batherson OTT 1.03 (23)
3. Jesper Bratt NJD 1.02 (23)
4. Dylan Larkin DET 1.00 (25)
5. Josh Norris OTT 0.83 (22)
5. Nico Hischier NJD 0.83 (23)
7. Tage Thompson BUF 0.82 (24)
7. Alex Tuch BUF 0.82 (25)
9. Brady Tkachuk OTT 0.75 (22)
9. Lucas Raymond DET 0.75 (20)

Other notable names:
-Dylan Cozens BUF 0.52 (21)
-Rasmus Dahlin BUF 0.63 (21)
-Peyton Krebs BUF 0.47 (21)
-Moritz Seider DET 0.64 (20)
-Filip Zadina DET 0.30 (22)
-Filip Hronek DET 0.43 (24)
-Yegor Sharangovich NJD 0.62 (23)
-Dawson Mercer NJD 0.58 (20)
-Pavel Zacha NJD 0.49 (24)
-Tim Stutzle OTT 0.63 (20)
-Thomas Chabot OTT 0.62 (25)
-Alex Formenton OTT 0.43 (22)

I omitted some of the older players (e.g. Tyler Bertuzzi, Connor Brown, Jeff Skinner, Kyle Okposo, Damon Severson, etc.)

It's actually pretty close.

A few guys in the wings (e.g. Holtz, Boqvist, Sanderson, Power, etc.).

 

[NyQuil]

Injuries are part of the NHL. Every team deals with injuries.

Sure, but when I see someone talking about NJD not meeting their potential because of injury, I remind them that a lot of teams are in that boat, some much more worse off.

This is one of the worst seasons Ottawa has encountered in some time. Everyone hits one sooner or later.

 

[Artorius Horus T]

LOL the voting.....

I thought the Sabres would get like 70-80 %., but under 20%......

Most voted the Devils? why? can't understand.

1. Buffalo

2. Ottawa
3. Detroit

4. New Jersey

 

[SpezDispenser]

We'll see soon. I'm very confident in Ottawa's young core going forward personally

 

[Xspyrit]

Both are good and both are way better than the mess Detroit has down the middle. My point was, it’s pretty hard to declare Ottawa over NJD at this point or going forward.

Assuming Stutzle pans out as good as Hughes would be ambitious at this point. (He is going to be very good, not saying he isn’t) I’d say at best Norris and Hischier are on par. (I’d take Hischier) And we haven’t seen enough of Pinto to say he’s better or worse than Mercer.

Yes NJ has the advantage right now. Hischier has played several seasons, Hughes has been breaking out in his 3rd season, Stutzle not yet and Pinto hasn't even played this season. Norris is a stud already though

I think you might be underestimating what the Sens trio could do moving forward. You probably missed the a post where I talked about the following :

- Norris is 22 y/o and has 42 goals/63 points in his last 77 games, has shown last season he can play against top competition and do very well defensively.

I think the fact that you take Hischier over Norris so quickly is a bit telling of what you know about the Sens players.

- Tim Stutzle, has transitioned to Center on November 24th and has 35 pts in 51 games since (56 pts pace over 82 games). That's good 2nd line numbers and since he turned 20 y/o in January and is a high talent, I think the best is yet to come for him.

In comparison, Hughes in his 2nd NHL season had a 0.55 PPG (45 pts pace). What makes you think Stutzle can't break out like Hughes is doing right now?

- Shane Pinto : guy missed all season but assuming the injury doesn't affect him going forward, he's going to be a heck of a player

There's a fact that might have been overlooked here :

Hughes : 166 GP
Hischier : 290 GP
Mercer : 69 GP

Stutzle : 120 GP
Norris : 111 GP
Pinto : 17 GP (played less than 5 mins in the last 2 games because of the shoulder injury)

Norris and Stutzle are just scratching the surface, they are just starting to get "comfortable", something that even Hughes took over a hundred games to do as well.

Lol Pinto vs Mercer does not favour the Sens.

Mercer is tracking like a Bergeron clone.

Nobody said it favors them. Pinto won't be a slouch though, and even if Mercer is better, Norris might be better than Hischier to balance it out, so in the end it comes down to Stutzle vs Hughes