Other domestic leagues 2020/21

sabremike

Friend To All Giraffes And Lindy Ruff
Aug 30, 2010
23,082
34,947
Brewster, NY
Me at St Pats on 46th St, new home of the NYCSC:
FB_IMG_1645479616426.jpg


Left it late but came away with the 3 points. Need to work on defending set pieces badly.
 

Gecklund

Registered User
Jul 17, 2012
25,514
12,173
California
The pictures were f***ing disgusting. Absolutely awful and I hope there are many arrests from this garbage, some very very harsh punishment for those teams, and some way of stopping it in the future
 

robertmac43

Forever 43!
Mar 31, 2015
23,630
15,768
The pictures were f***ing disgusting. Absolutely awful and I hope there are many arrests from this garbage, some very very harsh punishment for those teams, and some way of stopping it in the future
I went through the rabbit hole on Twitter. Brutal photos and some of the videos were a tough watch .

I really don't' think you can host anything in Mexico for a long while after this. Take them out of the triple bid for 2026.
 

sabremike

Friend To All Giraffes And Lindy Ruff
Aug 30, 2010
23,082
34,947
Brewster, NY
I went through the rabbit hole on Twitter. Brutal photos and some of the videos were a tough watch .

I really don't' think you can host anything in Mexico for a long while after this. Take them out of the triple bid for 2026.
I've seen f***ed up violence over soccer matches but this one takes the cake. There were scenes of people being stripped naked and being beaten and dragged to death. The street was littered with multiple mangled corpses like something out of a horror movie.
 
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Gecklund

Registered User
Jul 17, 2012
25,514
12,173
California
I went through the rabbit hole on Twitter. Brutal photos and some of the videos were a tough watch .

I really don't' think you can host anything in Mexico for a long while after this. Take them out of the triple bid for 2026.
I started to do the same but couldn’t make it past a few posts. It’s just horrible.
 
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robertmac43

Forever 43!
Mar 31, 2015
23,630
15,768
I really hope security is increased for the USMNT trip to the Azteca in a couple. Would not want to go to a game in Mexico right now if I'm a traveling fan
 
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Live in the Now

Registered User
Dec 17, 2005
53,275
7,727
LA
I watched all of the videos that I saw. I shouldn't have but I'm very desensitized to violence for reasons I don't understand and not a lot of stuff bothers me, but most of all I wanted to know why this happened. If you didn't watch them you probably shouldn't. There are literally hundreds of violent guys beating people to death in these videos. Random guys fly in out of nowhere to kick someone in the head once and then they run away. Sometimes the guys look dead after that, sometimes they're clearly already dead and 20 people run over to loot their body, take their clothes off, or kick them even more.

You know, what sucks is that when you've been to Mexico and you know what it's like, it's hard to not defend Mexico when these subjects come up. I've been to the border and I loved it. I've been to Puerto Vallarta and thought it was great. I want to go back to Mexico too. There are things you can do there that you can probably do elsewhere but not for as cheap. The only bad thing I have to say about my experience is that I saw a couple men beating the shit out of some guy who was harassing tourists. My brother traveled the whole country and loved it. I think it's a great place, great culture, lots of things to do, but and this is a big but, there is a veneer to things that can easily be pulled back if you wind up in the wrong place. When you're white you only see this when you're looking but I have a lot of Mexican friends who won't go back there. I have a friend from Tijuana who goes back, a friend from Mexico City who goes back, and one from the coast who goes back...but I don't know anyone else from the interior who wants to ever go back there. They're afraid they're going to get killed somewhere and it isn't worth it. I wouldn't go to Guadalajara ever among other places.

The country is great for tourists, might be one of the safest places on Earth if you're a tourist, but for the average Mexican person it is incredibly violent. Mexico is where we were in the late 80's. There are a lot of young men there who have nothing to live for. People with nothing to live for can be pushed into doing just about anything, people with nothing to live for are dangerous, and there are a lot of people there like that who a tourist won't always see unless they're going into dives. Cartel violence is also something I think is directly tied to this. A lot of people with nothing to live for want to be like them. After they were done beating people up and killing them they posed for a picture on the pitch. I really don't know what to say, what do you even say about that? I'm not victim blaming here, but also, away fans need to be banned. They're basically banned in Colombia as well, they're banned for a reason. You put too many young men who oppose each other, who have nothing to live for in a stadium and some bad shit is bound to happen. The thing with the naked bodies is a narco thing btw.

As for the game at Azteca, anyone who would go to that has lost their f***ing mind. Part of getting through life and living to be old is avoiding situations that aren't good. Well, I don't think anything will happen at Azteca but that's not a risk I'd take. There were "guards" at this game opening gates for people to get attacked. That shit is not something I would ever want to deal with, and I feel bad for everyone who got attacked. I feel most bad for those who just stood there watching what was going on only to get attacked for having done that, but that's why I never hang around anywhere in the world when I see people fighting. Not worth it. I'd love to go to Mexico City but you'd never see me at that game. The fan culture is rotten, but usually there's a lot of riot police at the games. Didn't look like there was any at this one.

No comment on if they should take the WC out of there. It will be a big subject and will come out a lot over the next few days. We'll see about that.
 
Sep 19, 2008
375,298
25,497
Very well said. I didn't really see many of the social media videos and pictures as I was glimpsing through Twitter on the train ride home and noticed a few comments on it. I didn't know it was that disturbing and visceral.
 

luiginb

Registered User
Aug 23, 2007
5,716
1,951
Barcelona
Yeah Americans there are going to be targets at the game, I don't think you guys should go. I see a lot of support on Facebook for Putin's invasion of Ukraine from Mexican people (probably AMLO supporters, which pains me to say as a leftie) which mainly stems from their anti-American sentiment.
 

Gecklund

Registered User
Jul 17, 2012
25,514
12,173
California
I watched all of the videos that I saw. I shouldn't have but I'm very desensitized to violence for reasons I don't understand and not a lot of stuff bothers me, but most of all I wanted to know why this happened. If you didn't watch them you probably shouldn't. There are literally hundreds of violent guys beating people to death in these videos. Random guys fly in out of nowhere to kick someone in the head once and then they run away. Sometimes the guys look dead after that, sometimes they're clearly already dead and 20 people run over to loot their body, take their clothes off, or kick them even more.

You know, what sucks is that when you've been to Mexico and you know what it's like, it's hard to not defend Mexico when these subjects come up. I've been to the border and I loved it. I've been to Puerto Vallarta and thought it was great. I want to go back to Mexico too. There are things you can do there that you can probably do elsewhere but not for as cheap. The only bad thing I have to say about my experience is that I saw a couple men beating the shit out of some guy who was harassing tourists. My brother traveled the whole country and loved it. I think it's a great place, great culture, lots of things to do, but and this is a big but, there is a veneer to things that can easily be pulled back if you wind up in the wrong place. When you're white you only see this when you're looking but I have a lot of Mexican friends who won't go back there. I have a friend from Tijuana who goes back, a friend from Mexico City who goes back, and one from the coast who goes back...but I don't know anyone else from the interior who wants to ever go back there. They're afraid they're going to get killed somewhere and it isn't worth it. I wouldn't go to Guadalajara ever among other places.

The country is great for tourists, might be one of the safest places on Earth if you're a tourist, but for the average Mexican person it is incredibly violent. Mexico is where we were in the late 80's. There are a lot of young men there who have nothing to live for. People with nothing to live for can be pushed into doing just about anything, people with nothing to live for are dangerous, and there are a lot of people there like that who a tourist won't always see unless they're going into dives. Cartel violence is also something I think is directly tied to this. A lot of people with nothing to live for want to be like them. After they were done beating people up and killing them they posed for a picture on the pitch. I really don't know what to say, what do you even say about that? I'm not victim blaming here, but also, away fans need to be banned. They're basically banned in Colombia as well, they're banned for a reason. You put too many young men who oppose each other, who have nothing to live for in a stadium and some bad shit is bound to happen. The thing with the naked bodies is a narco thing btw.

As for the game at Azteca, anyone who would go to that has lost their f***ing mind. Part of getting through life and living to be old is avoiding situations that aren't good. Well, I don't think anything will happen at Azteca but that's not a risk I'd take. There were "guards" at this game opening gates for people to get attacked. That shit is not something I would ever want to deal with, and I feel bad for everyone who got attacked. I feel most bad for those who just stood there watching what was going on only to get attacked for having done that, but that's why I never hang around anywhere in the world when I see people fighting. Not worth it. I'd love to go to Mexico City but you'd never see me at that game. The fan culture is rotten, but usually there's a lot of riot police at the games. Didn't look like there was any at this one.

No comment on if they should take the WC out of there. It will be a big subject and will come out a lot over the next few days. We'll see about that.
Well said. I think that you have good and bad everywhere. I think league games should have been suspended and both these teams given huge bans if not kicked out all together but that’ll just make things worse. I don’t know if there’s a solution for just this instance.
 

Live in the Now

Registered User
Dec 17, 2005
53,275
7,727
LA
Well said. I think that you have good and bad everywhere. I think league games should have been suspended and both these teams given huge bans if not kicked out all together but that’ll just make things worse. I don’t know if there’s a solution for just this instance.

The solution is ban the teams and ban away fans. In some countries you just can’t have them because the fan culture is too rotten to allow it.
 

Savi

Registered User
Dec 3, 2006
9,302
1,878
Bruges, Belgium
Very well said. I didn't really see many of the social media videos and pictures as I was glimpsing through Twitter on the train ride home and noticed a few comments on it. I didn't know it was that disturbing and visceral.

Yeah, same.
It looks more like a prison riot in a third world country, than a football stadium brawl.
Also, those aren't hooligans. Hooligans want to hurt eachother, but these animals are clearly trying to kill.
 

Live in the Now

Registered User
Dec 17, 2005
53,275
7,727
LA
Yeah, same.
It looks more like a prison riot in a third world country, than a football stadium brawl.
Also, those aren't hooligans. Hooligans want to hurt eachother, but these animals are clearly trying to kill.

There have been other incidents in stadiums there in the last ten years but I don't believe any of them wound up with people dead, namely because police did their job. However in this case there are some allegations that police opened the gates and allowed the attack. Mexican police are some of the most corrupt people on the planet and this would not even remotely be shocking news. To that allegation I will post this, but I will warn you. If you watch it on Twitter, do not scroll up or down to watch anything else. If you haven't seen violent videos or pictures before like these, they will make you dead inside.



Really this is what happens when nobody intervenes in these incidents and they're carried out to their conclusion without something stopping it. Almost every other time we see something like this happen, police intervene with weapons and that's the end of it. In Europe, someone usually intervenes before things wind up with people getting killed. Like what if that Russia/England fight in Marseille happened, and nobody ever got in there to break it up, and it just kept going until someone won? Winning something like that winds up with people killing each other because they just don't care, and for sure that Russia/England fight was bad enough people could have been killed. That's the scary part, that without someone stopping it, these incidents could end anywhere the way it ended yesterday in Mexico. Western society has a serious problem with poor young men who have nothing to live for, who then go act like this. I don't really have any answer for how to deal with it, but I also need to point out that Mexican club ultra culture is rotten to the core. Beer + cocaine, then you can go into the stadium and get more beer, that's a big problem.

There was also a report last year that 94% of violent crimes went unpunished, and the guys doing this, this was very obviously not the first time they'd hurt someone. The scary part is that in the interior of Mexico anyway, the state government will try to cover something like this up, and nothing will happen at all. They already said today that nobody died. There was also a rumor going around that this was cartel motivated violence...which given the area of Mexico both teams are from would be literally the least shocking thing ever, and then you factor in them ripping dead people's clothes off, it sounds just about right.

It sucks man. Mexico is a great place, if you ever travel there it's pretty much certain nothing bad will ever happen to you, but things like this where Mexicans are killing other Mexicans for no good reason, it's totally crazy. It's less than 1% of society, it's almost all young men of a certain socio-economic background and not anyone else, and they try to ruin the country for everyone else. I hope they find these guys but it’s really unlikely. Instead they’ll try to make it go away somehow.
 
Last edited:

koyvoo

Registered User
Nov 8, 2014
17,296
17,108
The governor of Queretaro is stating there were no deaths.

Many news outlets are reporting only serious injuries.

Are they going to get away with this? Anyone who saw the footage…I swear, I think I saw I decapitated corpse even.
 

Bringer of Jollity

Registered User
Oct 20, 2011
13,251
8,372
Fontana, CA
Well said. I think that you have good and bad everywhere. I think league games should have been suspended and both these teams given huge bans if not kicked out all together but that’ll just make things worse. I don’t know if there’s a solution for just this instance.
Why both teams? From all the reports I've seen this seems to have been almost completely one-sided, and likely pre-meditated, with the one side having weapons and being given access to the other side's fan areas by security, etc...
 

Gecklund

Registered User
Jul 17, 2012
25,514
12,173
California
Why both teams? From all the reports I've seen this seems to have been almost completely one-sided, and likely pre-meditated, with the one side having weapons and being given access to the other side's fan areas by security, etc...
Because it wasn’t one-sided.
 

Live in the Now

Registered User
Dec 17, 2005
53,275
7,727
LA
Yeah, it wasn’t one sided. But one side had weapons and the other didn’t. I don’t think Atlas fans knew that when this all started.
 

Bringer of Jollity

Registered User
Oct 20, 2011
13,251
8,372
Fontana, CA
Yeah, it wasn’t one sided. But one side had weapons and the other didn’t. I don’t think Atlas fans knew that when this all started.
Was there other than garden-variety hooliganism from Atlas fans prior to them realizing their lives were literally at stake? I didn't see reports they were going at Queretaro fans with knives, ice picks, kicking and beating them repeatedly while already unconscious, or the worse stuff that I don't even want to mention, though I could have missed it.
 

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