Other Chicago & General Sports Thread LVII: Bulls draft Carter & Hutchison

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HeisenBaez

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Let me put it this way....The Padres are paying nearing 20 mill per for basically a 2 WAR player.

In comparison Anthony is just shy of a 4 WAR player in his career, and Jose Abreu is a 4 WAR player and Hosmer making significantly more than both guys who are better than him and that doesn't include other 1B like Freeman, Goldschmidt.

It's a horrible contract.
 

LDF

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Sep 28, 2016
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Let me put it this way....The Padres are paying nearing 20 mill per for basically a 2 WAR player.

In comparison Anthony is just shy of a 4 WAR player in his career, and Jose Abreu is a 4 WAR player and Hosmer making significantly more than both guys who are better than him and that doesn't include other 1B like Freeman, Goldschmidt.

It's a horrible contract.
now within the mlb world, posters needs to remember the mlb has the elc per their cba and then they are unrestricted fa ....... so now supply and demands take over. if the team are acting like a witless fool by overpaying a certain player esp with the length that player is getting, well it is on them that org.

the problem there is the trickle down effect of players coming behind him. using his contract with the length of the contract as an example to use for further example to use as a min platform.
 

b1e9a8r5s

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Feb 16, 2015
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Let me put it this way....The Padres are paying nearing 20 mill per for basically a 2 WAR player.

In comparison Anthony is just shy of a 4 WAR player in his career, and Jose Abreu is a 4 WAR player and Hosmer making significantly more than both guys who are better than him and that doesn't include other 1B like Freeman, Goldschmidt.

It's a horrible contract.

We agree it's a bad deal and are just arguing about how bad of a deal it is, so I won't go round and round about it. But he had a 4 WAR player last year and is 28 years old. That's his best year and it was a contract year, of course, so there's certainly red flags. I just don't see it reaching the Seabrook level. Agree to disagree.
 

HawksBeerFan

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Nov 9, 2014
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Lol no.

Hosmer had a very comparable year last year to Rizzo. Rock solid defensively, walks a ton. Thats a really good contract for his prime years.
If you only look at last year, then sure, I can see why it's not a bad contract.

However, you need to look at more than that. For example, the year before last he had a wRC+ of 102. He had another good year in 2015 but in 2014 his wRC+ was 98. 2 of the last 4 years he's been a league average hitter, and his career wRC+ is 111. That's really not very good for a 1st baseman.

As far as his defense being "rock solid" that just doesn't seem to be true. Here's a long article from FanGraphs about Hosmer's defense. The key portion is below...

"The advanced numbers, the traditional numbers, the video scouts all say the same thing: Eric Hosmer is a perfectly ordinary defensive first baseman, likely one whose below-average range is cancelled out by a penchant for scooping balls in the dirt. How does that equate to three Gold Glove Awards? I’m not sure, and it probably shouldn’t, but my best guess it that those within the game — the managers whose votes make up 75% of the Gold Glove process — appreciate scoops more than the numbers do. Yost literally says Hosmer has “average range,” but that his scoops “[save] us countless errors, countless runs, because infielders can grab a ball, and they can turn around and throw it in the vicinity and know that Hos is gonna pick it.” What that quote tells me is that Yost believes Hosmer’s scooping ability far outweighs any range deficiencies he might have, though the numbers reveal no evidence of that being true.
As for this year? This year, thus far, is a perfect example of why we want the largest sample possible before working with defensive metrics. Every piece of evidence we have during Hosmer’s three Gold Glove years indicates he’s exactly league average, yet we see his 2016 spray chart. More than likely, Hosmer’s just had a disproportionate number of tough, diving play opportunities, and he’s converted a couple less than normal, and since the hits have piled up, so have the negative defensive runs saved. Hosmer almost certainly hasn’t been playing his best defense this year, but it’s just as likely that his bloated runs-saved total is as much a result of “facing a tough schedule,” per se. After all, we’ve got a much larger sample than just this one year, and that much larger sample points to Hosmer being perfectly average."

Let’s Talk About Eric Hosmer’s Defense | FanGraphs Baseball

If we are purely looking at the numbers, last year he was 17th (of 21 qualified) 1st basemen in DRS. The year before he was 16th (of 17 qualified). Two years ago he was 14th (of 21 qualified).

I'm not saying he's bad defensively but it's pretty clear that he's not close to an above average defensive first baseman. 1st base isn't really a priority defensive position either but if you are going to have average, or below average, defense there you'd expect to get very good offensive output. Hosmer though has not been that, or at least he's shown he's not that about half the time. To draw a comparison, over the past 4 years among 1st baseman, he is 16th in wRC+ with 116 (Rizzo is 4th at 144). Players near him in the list?

Carlos Santana, 13th, 120 - just signed for 3 years, $60 million
Adam Lind, 14th, 117 - just signed for 1 year, $1.5 million
Chris Davis, 17th, 114 - two years ago signed a massive 7 year, $160 million contract which has been a disaster

The point here is not that Hosmer is a BAD player, it's just that he is very overpaid for a history of being an average hitter and an average (at best) defender. Production at 1st base can be found fairly easily compared to other positions.

It's just not a good contract.
 

No Fun Shogun

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May 1, 2011
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Louisville's 2013 national title officially not canon. Love it.

North Carolina not getting their's revoked is still bullshit, though.
 

piteus

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Dec 20, 2015
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Louisville's 2013 national title officially not canon. Love it.

North Carolina not getting their's revoked is still bull****, though.
100% correct. While the FBI investigation was not directly involved with the Katina Powell prostitution saga, you can bet it had some influence in the outcome. If the FBI investigation blew up before the UNCheat ruling, it would have been different. The FBI investigation is questioning the existence of the NCAA. Now with the MSU fiasco, they are even under more pressure.

I know old ACC insiders who believe UNC was doing the 'academic fraud stuff' during the Dean Smith years. Dean was known to be very laxed when it came to academics with his players. Part of it was to give his players an opportunity, but it also helped UNC to win. There's no way a glorified secretary, Deborah Crowder, cooked this elaborate scheme on her own. Ole Roy was part of Dean Smith's machine. He and Guthridge did nothing to clean it up after Dean Smith retired. Neither did Matt Doherty who also played for Smith. These rumors were around even when I was going to school in the ACC.
 

Rooh

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really what happen to chg his mind ??
Shaq requested a trade to Miami just as Kobe was about to join the Bulls in 2004 and in 2007 he requested a trade to Chicago but L.A was able to acquire Pau.

Kobe didn't want to be the Robin to Shaq's Batman. Kobe was often compared to Penny Hardaway and he didn't like that.
 
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No Fun Shogun

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Damn, down goes the USA men's team. Lost to the Czechs in the shootout. No medals for the boys.

Up to the women's team to take down Canada for the gold.
 

LDF

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Sep 28, 2016
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Shaq requested a trade to Miami just as Kobe was about to join the Bulls in 2004 and in 2007 he requested a trade to Chicago but L.A was able to acquire Pau.

Kobe didn't want to be the Robin to Shaq's Batman. Kobe was often compared to Penny Hardaway and he didn't like that.
many thanks
 

Blackhawkswincup

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Germans up 2-0 on Sweden after 1

This is surprising

Also the lack of NHL talent has allowed several ex-Hawks to play for national teams and get show that many would likely have not had if NHL was there

Wisniewski was with US team
Stalberg is on Swedish team
Bourque is on Canadian team
Ebbett is on Canadian team
Klinkhammer is on Canadian team
Ehrhoff is on German team
Kukkonen is on Finnish team
Kontiola is on Finnish team

I didn't realize Kukkonen was still active player to be honest. I liked Lasse when he came into NHL and thought he would have a better career but it didn't pan out

When looking at the rosters several guys made me go "He I remember when he was breaking into NHL or was drafted"

Really makes me feel old some of the names
 

Blackhawkswincup

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Sweden looks terrible

This forward group is abysmal ,, Its like every line is Bouma , Wingels and Hayden

They are trying but my god they just aren't talented

Also coach seems to hate Dahlin
 

Blackhawkswincup

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Jun 24, 2007
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Holy ####

Germans win in OT to upset the Swedes

4-3

And what an amazing goal it was (Well effort was great as was move ,, Goalie for Sweden appeared to glove it into his own net)
 

Blue Liner

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Dec 12, 2009
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Damn, down goes the USA men's team. Lost to the Czechs in the shootout. No medals for the boys.

Up to the women's team to take down Canada for the gold.

US men were never winning shit. That roster was a whole lot of meh. Should've gone with more college guys instead of the direction they went in. Lot of high-end NHL prospects in the college ranks that would've fared better. Can't use NHL'ers? Ok. The next best thing is young guys who are going to be NHL'ers in the next 1-2 years.

It's annoying as all hell with the talent the US could put out there now that NHL'ers weren't in these games. Maybe next time around.
 
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BK

"Goalie Apologist"
Feb 8, 2011
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Sweden looks terrible

This forward group is abysmal ,, Its like every line is Bouma , Wingels and Hayden

They are trying but my god they just aren't talented

Also coach seems to hate Dahlin

Their coach really does seem to hate him. It is just weird.

Hayden and Wingles actually have talent. Bouma is just a 4th line guy.
 
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ChiHawks10

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US men were never winning ****. That roster was a whole lot of meh. Should've gone with more college guys instead of the direction they went in. Lot of high-end NHL prospects in the college ranks that would've fared better. Can't use NHL'ers? Ok. The next best thing is young guys who are going to be NHL'ers in the next 1-2 years.

It's annoying as all hell with the talent the US could put out there now that NHL'ers weren't in these games. Maybe next time around.

Actually... if they hadn't been defeated in a shootout(a ridiculously stupid way to end games that have medal ramifications, IMO), they would have been guaranteed a shot at a medal. Not disagreeing the roster was meh, but beating CZE would have put them into a guaranteed fight for a medal no matter what.

I can't stand that a shootout is used to determine games like that. Keep playing 4 on 4, ten minute OTs until there's a winner.
 

Blue Liner

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Actually... if they hadn't been defeated in a shootout(a ridiculously stupid way to end games that have medal ramifications, IMO), they would have been guaranteed a shot at a medal. Not disagreeing the roster was meh, but beating CZE would have put them into a guaranteed fight for a medal no matter what.

I can't stand that a shootout is used to determine games like that. Keep playing 4 on 4, ten minute OTs until there's a winner.

I understand that, but I highly doubt they would've won a medal game and quite frankly, I was surprised they even made it to the Quarters.
 
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No Fun Shogun

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Oh yeah, the USA men's team was an absolute longshot to medal, but still doesn't mean you can't root for them to pull off some upsets. They were a shootout away from at least playing in a medal game, after all. And if the bronze medal game was USA versus Germany, that's a winnable match.

Will be rooting for the Germans or Czechs.
 
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