Other Chicago & General Sports Thread LVII: Bulls draft Carter & Hutchison

[Blackhawkswincup]

And why should we have confidence that this likely late teens pick will be anything good?

We get to draft another Denzel Valentine or Bobby Portis ,, So exciting

 

[LDF]

And why should we have confidence that this likely late teens pick will be anything good?

We get to draft another Denzel Valentine or Bobby Portis ,, So exciting

valentine and portis, well they are not exciting, i grant you that, but both are developing into usable nba players.

that mid-teens pick, i will go along with what you are saying and i too have concerns on that selection.

 

[piteus]

And why should we have confidence that this likely late teens pick will be anything good?

We get to draft another Denzel Valentine or Bobby Portis ,, So exciting

You don't. Of course, this regime also traded a late first rounder for Markkanen, Dunn, and LaVine. You just never know. Luck is always a part of the process. However, if you don't play, you can never win.

Also, the Bulls can package their 1st rounder / Pels first rounder / and use more cap space to get a higher pick in this year's draft. It gives the Bulls options.

 

[clydesdale line]

Fantastic trade. Get your big or wing with our pick and vice versa with the Pelicans pick. Pray they start to skid down the stretch (I'll take 10-12 range, won't be greedy) and watch the fireworks.

 

[Rooh]

actually i am more concern that zach lavine getting hot......

Lavine is so terrible defensively that him getting hot wouldn't matter. He isn't good enough yet on offense to cancel out his defense. I wouldn't be concerned with Lavine messing up the Bulls chances at a top pick.

 

[LDF]

Lavine is so terrible defensively that him getting hot wouldn't matter. He isn't good enough yet on offense to cancel out his defense. I wouldn't be concerned with Lavine messing up the Bulls chances at a top pick.

and while you are making a solid point, it is his offense that i am talking about. these guys are premiere players and it doesn't take much to get them in game shape. lavine will help himself and those around him with that hot hand.

 

[LDF]

You don't. Of course, this regime also traded a late first rounder for Markkanen, Dunn, and LaVine. You just never know. Luck is always a part of the process. However, if you don't play, you can never win.

Also, the Bulls can package their 1st rounder / Pels first rounder / and use more cap space to get a higher pick in this year's draft. It gives the Bulls options.

umm teams that needs help and salary dump.

knicks, bucks. for starters.

cle and lakers as the dark horses.

 

[clydesdale line]

Knicks are willing to include their first rounder to get Noah's salary off the books. I doubt Bulls go that far, but it's interesting.

 

[LDF]

Knicks are willing to include their first rounder to get Noah's salary off the books. I doubt Bulls go that far, but it's interesting.

it would be very interesting in my mind. i don't know if this is possible, but the bulls wade dead cap which the bulls have to give to the knicks for noah and 1st..... it is all dependent on if the bulls can trade the dead cap money.

 

[Bubba88]

BWC gonna BWC

good trade for Bulls. in other News, Zipser and Felicios minutes will go up. They came back from 3-20 to find out they are not good enough with 1 injury. Go full tank mode this Season and get Ayton. Asik contract basically Ends after next Season.
Mirotic wanted to get traded and that never changed. He remained professional and got his 12.5 Million for next Season.

Good foundation to build around now with Dunn, Lavine, Markkanen, Valentine, Portis and the 2 1st round picks. Just hope that our Pick turns out being elite Player. That's a Young Team and would only lack star power. It's easier to get that star when you have assets and a Team that just lacks that one guy.

 

[Illinihockey]

And why should we have confidence that this likely late teens pick will be anything good?

We get to draft another Denzel Valentine or Bobby Portis ,, So exciting

Or they could get another Jimmy Butler or Taj Gibson. Yes the draft is a crap shoot as you move further down, but you still want a roll of the dice.

 

[piteus]

Lavine is so terrible defensively that him getting hot wouldn't matter. He isn't good enough yet on offense to cancel out his defense. I wouldn't be concerned with Lavine messing up the Bulls chances at a top pick.

LaVine hasn't looked good defensively, but as the MIT Sloan analytics conference pointed out ... many of the current advanced numbers for defensive metrics are flawed. Using offensive metrics is one thing, but defensive metrics is extremely subjective and doesn't incorporate all the variables. This isn't from me. This is from some of the biggest sabrmatricians in the sport.

 

[piteus]

Bulls will be on national TV Feb. 9th against Minny. Expect Dunn and Markkanen to join the team right before it. The Bulls are in full tank mode. They are going to let Grant and Zipser run this team to the ground.

Let's hope they trade Holiday too. I get the feeling they'll go with Lopez as the veteran presence with Pondexter waived. Asik works hard, but he's goofy more than a leader in the locker room. Plus, Lopez plays the enforcer role for the Bulls on the floor. Portis is more scary insane than tough.

 

[IU Hawks fan]

Duke just lost to 10-13 St. John's, HAHAHA

 

[LDF]

nba - bulls - interesting results from today's lost.

Chicago Bulls vs. Los Angeles Clippers Live Score and Stats - February 3, 2018 Gametracker

 

[LDF]

nba - with the nba tdl looming, with thursday coming ..... new bulls update.

Bulls Notes: Nelson, Allen, Grant, Dunn

 

[clydesdale line]

I was the first one here on the Ayton train to start the year, but my god.. I love... LOVE JJJ.

 

[Rooh]

I was the first one here on the Ayton train to start the year, but my god.. I love... LOVE JJJ.

He's very good and underrated as a prospect a lot of people don't even realize. I would easily select him over Bagley as of now, he just needs to stop fouling so much.

JJJ looks like the best defensive player in the class which is impressive considering Bamba's alien *** is in it. 52/44/80 shooting splits for a big is pretty wild. FT% is usually great at indicating how good of a shooter a player will be at the NBA level and to be shooting 80% on 4 FTA at 7ft in only 23mpg is so impressive.

 

[Rooh]

LaVine hasn't looked good defensively, but as the MIT Sloan analytics conference pointed out ... many of the current advanced numbers for defensive metrics are flawed. Using offensive metrics is one thing, but defensive metrics is extremely subjective and doesn't incorporate all the variables. This isn't from me. This is from some of the biggest sabrmatricians in the sport.

Some of the defensive statistics are flawed but it's because defensive stats are making bad defenders look good right now. Defensive Box Plus-Minus and a lot of other box-score defensive numbers are high on players like Westbrook who pile uncontested defensive rebounds which breaks the box-score stats, in reality Westbrook is a below average defender but the numbers have him looking like he's damn CP3.

 

[piteus]

He's very good and underrated as a prospect a lot of people don't even realize. I would easily select him over Bagley as of now, he just needs to stop fouling so much.

JJJ looks like the best defensive player in the class which is impressive considering Bamba's alien *** is in it. 52/44/80 shooting splits for a big is pretty wild. FT% is usually great at indicating how good of a shooter a player will be at the NBA level and to be shooting 80% on 4 FTA at 7ft in only 23mpg is so impressive.

You think Jackson is "easily" the better prospect than Bagley? I get the argument for Jackson over Porter, but why is Jackson the better prospect than Bagley? When Jackson can go for 30 points and 10 rebounds against UVA's defense, then we can start talking.

When you go against midgets like Indiana last night ... you expect Jackson to score more than 10 points and 3 rebounds in 25 minutes at that pace. Indiana is the same team that made Isaac Haas look all world last week. Admittedly, the 7 blocks are great. By the way, Archie Miller incorporates the same packline defense that Tony Bennett uses. Bagley also went for 23 points (10/13 shooting) / 10 rebounds / 3 assists in 38 minutes at Assembly Hall 2 MONTHS ago. This was against a lot taller and uninjured De'Ron Davis.

BTW, no one is underrating Jackson. He's forecasted as a top 7 prospect, if not top 5 by some. However, I don't see anyone jumping up and down that Jackson is "easily" the better prospect than Bagley.

You are entitled to your opinion, but just be consistent. You can't scream about Doncic's production over Bagley against "better competition," and then have Jackson over Bagley due to his "projections" in a mediocre B1G ... especially when Bagley showed better against the same team 2 months ago. In 46 minutes, Jackson went for 20 points and 9 rebounds against Indiana. The 10 total blocks are great, but that was also against an injured midget Indiana team.

I'm all for projections. Jackson has a lot of upside. However, to imply Jackson is "easily" the better prospect than Bagley is ridiculous.

 

[piteus]

Some of the defensive statistics are flawed but it's because defensive stats are making bad defenders look good right now. Defensive Box Plus-Minus and a lot of other box-score defensive numbers are high on players like Westbrook who pile uncontested defensive rebounds which breaks the box-score stats, in reality Westbrook is a below average defender but the numbers have him looking like he's damn CP3.

If you know it's flawed, then don't use the defensive numbers like the bible! You made the same argument for Mirotic being a good defender like you said people do with Westbrook. If you look at how people crunch the defensive numbers, it doesn't account for a lot things. It's flawed. Use the defensive numbers as a benchmark ... but not the final word.

 

[clydesdale line]

FT% is usually great at indicating how good of a shooter a player will be at the NBA level and to be shooting 80% on 4 FTA at 7ft in only 23mpg is so impressive.

Crazy thing is, you can actually put him at the C position and he wouldn't look out of place there with his size. There's a couple of guys who probably project best in the back court next to Markkanen (especially with the pick and pop game Hoiberg likes to run in sets). He's definitely one of them.

 

[Rooh]

If you know it's flawed, then don't use the defensive numbers like the bible! You made the same argument for Mirotic being a good defender like you said people do with Westbrook. If you look at how people crunch the defensive numbers, it doesn't account for a lot things. It's flawed. Use the defensive numbers as a benchmark ... but not the final word.

You missed what I said, defensive numbers are broken because players players like Westbrook stack uncontested rebounds and other box score stats, which neither Lavine or Mirotic do. Lavine and Mirotic have fair defensive numbers. I mean you don’t even have to look at the numbers to see Lavine is a terrible defender.

Lavine gets lost like this almost every game, i'm not sure if it's his effort or what..

 

[Rooh]

You think Jackson is "easily" the better prospect than Bagley? I get the argument for Jackson over Porter, but why is Jackson the better prospect than Bagley? When Jackson can go for 30 points and 10 rebounds against UVA's defense, then we can start talking.

When you go against midgets like Indiana last night ... you expect Jackson to score more than 10 points and 3 rebounds in 25 minutes at that pace. Indiana is the same team that made Isaac Haas look all world last week. Admittedly, the 7 blocks are great. By the way, Archie Miller incorporates the same packline defense that Tony Bennett uses. Bagley also went for 23 points (10/13 shooting) / 10 rebounds / 3 assists in 38 minutes at Assembly Hall 2 MONTHS ago. This was against a lot taller and uninjured De'Ron Davis.

BTW, no one is underrating Jackson. He's forecasted as a top 7 prospect, if not top 5 by some. However, I don't see anyone jumping up and down that Jackson is "easily" the better prospect than Bagley.

You are entitled to your opinion, but just be consistent. You can't scream about Doncic's production over Bagley against "better competition," and then have Jackson over Bagley due to his "projections" in a mediocre B1G ... especially when Bagley showed better against the same team 2 months ago. In 46 minutes, Jackson went for 20 points and 9 rebounds against Indiana. The 10 total blocks are great, but that was also against an injured midget Indiana team.

I'm all for projections. Jackson has a lot of upside. However, to imply Jackson is "easily" the better prospect than Bagley is ridiculous.

The difference in defensive play between JJJ and Bagley is massive. I'm not sure what position Bagley plays in the NBA he's athletic but he's not overly physical or long, Bagley's skill combination creates a 5 in a 4s body. Bagley racks tons of his numbers up from putbacks and dunks around the rim vs college kids and hasn't shown any self-creation skills like JJJ.

If Bagley could show flashes like this I'd be more interested in him...





Look at the ball-handling and control..that is a near 7ft player.

 

[Rooh]

You missed what I said, defensive numbers are broken because players players like Westbrook stack uncontested rebounds and other box score stats, which neither Lavine or Mirotic do. Lavine and Mirotic have fair defensive numbers. I mean you don’t even have to look at the numbers to see Lavine is a terrible defender.
Examples..
Lavine gets lost like this almost every game, i'm not sure if it's his effort or what..