The MLS is better run then the NHL that's why. They scouted and are supporting the market.
OT:What is Atlanta United FC doing different that the Thrashers did not do?
- Thread starter cutchemist42
- Start date
Marty Party
Back @ The Bridge
Isn't Atlanta currently the only southern team right now? I know of people who make the trek down from Tennessee to watch their games.
If Nashville gets a MLS team that will dry up. At least from the greater Nashville area.
If Nashville gets a MLS team that will dry up. At least from the greater Nashville area.
KevFu
Registered User
Just because something is new doesn't mean it isn't antiquated.
And there's a huge difference between being a great place to see a game, and being a venue that generates significant revenue.
Tons of Islanders fans think that NVMC is a great old barn and it's better watching a game there than in a gorgeous new and cavernous "state of the art" facility, because those are soulless. They're not WRONG. but the Islanders can't be a top 10 revenue club in NVMC and they could be in a state of the art facility that generates big time revenue.
The Omni was like NVMC or the MLB stadiums in Tampa and Toronto. TB/TOR MLB stadiums are the LAST of the "old design." they're not old, run down and falling apart. They were just designed for "get a lot of people in to watch a game and then out after the game efficiently" rather than the new style of "points of sale, premium amenities that raise revenue, etc"
People just need to get used to the idea that MLS isn't going away.
Of course we can expect to see the buzz around the team drop off in the years to come. Seattle has averaged 40,000+ for many years now. But no one even talks about them anymore as anything special. Their level just became the norm for them, and it stopped being special.
Atlanta may be different. Or it may not be. The stadium, from memory, was designed so as to make it a soccer-friendly experience in a 30,000 configuration (with the curtains). For most games it's capped at 45,000 I believe. Either way, if actual attendance drops off, they should still be able to create an intimate venue.
Is Atlanta's success any stranger than Cincinnati's, which is outdrawing several MLS sides despite playing in the third tier of professional soccer? I dunno. But I don't think it makes any sense to ask why the Thrashers didn't succeed when ATL United has made a good start. Two different sports that more likely than not were not targeting the same audience.
Of course we can expect to see the buzz around the team drop off in the years to come. Seattle has averaged 40,000+ for many years now. But no one even talks about them anymore as anything special. Their level just became the norm for them, and it stopped being special.
Atlanta may be different. Or it may not be. The stadium, from memory, was designed so as to make it a soccer-friendly experience in a 30,000 configuration (with the curtains). For most games it's capped at 45,000 I believe. Either way, if actual attendance drops off, they should still be able to create an intimate venue.
Is Atlanta's success any stranger than Cincinnati's, which is outdrawing several MLS sides despite playing in the third tier of professional soccer? I dunno. But I don't think it makes any sense to ask why the Thrashers didn't succeed when ATL United has made a good start. Two different sports that more likely than not were not targeting the same audience.
KevFu
Registered User
Cincy and Sacramento are like, insane attendance/popularity for being in the third tier.
Granted, the difference between third and second tier is mostly administrative and not really quality.
Granted, the difference between third and second tier is mostly administrative and not really quality.
Cincinnati in particular yes. A city that two years ago I'm sure no one would have batted an eyelid over in terms of being an MLS team in the future. It was the same case with Orlando when they made their start in USL. These unexpected success stories are becoming more frequent. It's hard to rule out any city anymore as being capable of hosting a successful MLS franchise.
DowntownBooster
Registered User
It's a shame that Atlanta lost the Flames under those circumstances. When Winnipeg, Edmonton, Hartford and Quebec joined the NHL one season earlier, the entry fee was $ 6 million for each team. The $ 8 million local offer for the Flames was a fair price. It's too bad that Calgary couldn't have been granted an expansion team instead and have the Flames remain in Atlanta.
LeafsNation75
Registered User
Besides Atlanta there is also an MLS team in Orlando, Florida called Orlando City SC. Now I know it's about an 8 hour drive from Atlanta to Orlando, although I think the distance between both cities is not enough to take away from each others fan bases.
GindyDraws
I will not disable my Adblock, HF
I know that the Ruckus had a really bad ownership problem & the Silverbacks gave up suddenly, but I think this team might have the staying power.
To me, the decentralization of the Braves has left a huge void in the heart of Atlanta, which has allowed the United a perfect chance to move in.
Plus, as another user put it, an expansion hockey team is guaranteed to suck, and likely for the first 3-5 years (which will put Vegas to the test), while an expansion soccer club in the States is willing to spend money for instant results (except for Minnesota, who are using the traditional "suck for years and give our talent time" method). And being a winner right out of the gate never hurts.
Of course, my team is a big time loser (records wise, definitely not attendance) in a big time loser league that just sued USSF because they were ******** about losing their Division status, so what do I know?
GindyDraws
I will not disable my Adblock, HF
The four most popular teams not in MLS are Cincinnati, Sacramento, Indianapolis (Indy), and Louisville.
I'm seriously hoping Indy joins USL next season so I can have a legit reason to go to Cincinnati.
TheMoreYouKnow
Registered User
They are riding a cultural wave..the NHL has never done that. The NHL is just another North American league..but for a sport that most people outside a handful of Northern states rarely if ever had any exposure too. It's never been exciting. Sun Belt expansion wasn't clamored for, it was a business decision by the league.
Meanwhile, soccer has been adopted by millennials and younger people even as a sort of counter-cultural phenomenon that sets them apart from their elders. People in that generation had exposure to soccer as a sport they played as kids. But that's not the new thing..the new thing is that they discovered how different and exciting it is to support a soccer team.
A lot of stuff went into that culturally, the millennial disillusionment with mainstream America of the Bush years, the wave of pop cultural anglophilia hitting America (along with the British-originated hipster subculture), the exposure to soccer culture via the internet (I bet many Americans under 30 watched a Youtube video about soccer fans *before* ever watching a soccer game). You could write a book about it, maybe someone already has. But the point is that this is a sport that's organically growing in America and it's the leagues - MLS and all the European ones - trying to cash in on it by meeting the craving for it. Hockey's expansion meanwhile was built around the premise of air dropping franchises in terra incognito and then hoping it will somehow be attractive to the locals.
Meanwhile, soccer has been adopted by millennials and younger people even as a sort of counter-cultural phenomenon that sets them apart from their elders. People in that generation had exposure to soccer as a sport they played as kids. But that's not the new thing..the new thing is that they discovered how different and exciting it is to support a soccer team.
A lot of stuff went into that culturally, the millennial disillusionment with mainstream America of the Bush years, the wave of pop cultural anglophilia hitting America (along with the British-originated hipster subculture), the exposure to soccer culture via the internet (I bet many Americans under 30 watched a Youtube video about soccer fans *before* ever watching a soccer game). You could write a book about it, maybe someone already has. But the point is that this is a sport that's organically growing in America and it's the leagues - MLS and all the European ones - trying to cash in on it by meeting the craving for it. Hockey's expansion meanwhile was built around the premise of air dropping franchises in terra incognito and then hoping it will somehow be attractive to the locals.
Gunnersaurus Rex
Registered User
- Jan 14, 2008
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NHL better get used to this. The MLS is a better run league and appeals to a MUCH larger base of potential fans. Hockey is a VERY niche sport.
Top 3 leagues are obviously NFL, NBA, MLB. I'd say MLS is 4 and NHL is 5. Not a good sign for the future of the game.
Top 3 leagues are obviously NFL, NBA, MLB. I'd say MLS is 4 and NHL is 5. Not a good sign for the future of the game.
AdmiralsFan24
Registered User
People who keep saying MLS is ahead of the NHL are insane. Let me know when star players actually come to MLS. It's like the 10th best league in the world that attracts domestic players and fading European stars. You know why Christian Pulisic doesn't play in MLS? Because the competition sucks and he can make a lot more money playing in the Bundesliga.
- Jan 11, 2006
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The most famous player on Atlanta is probably... Brad Guzan? And he's an American goalie who isn't even remotely as popular as Tim Howard. Plus he only showed up halfway through the season when they were already averaging 40K a game. Atlanta signed a lot of young South Americans and they play a very attractive brand of soccer that scores tons of goals. That's the main draw of the team on the field, anyway. I still can't explain how they get THAT much attendance, though, lol.
I agree with all the ownership comments, that probably makes a huge difference. Thrashers never had a chance once they became the redheaded stepchild. Arthur Blank appears to love both his teams equally so far.
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Their marketing was very good to start with, that certainly helps. The ownership is even bigger. Arthur Blank is well respected around Atlanta and, more importantly, he isn't in the sports business to make money. He's in the sports business for the Falcons and now United to win championships and provide the best fan experience in the business. So long as he is the owner, funding for both the team and for the fans will never be an issue. That was never even close to true for the Thrashers, who weren't willing to spend money on the team or the fans.
But more importantly than either of those, and the reason United won me over as someone who before would watch maybe 5 soccer matches a year, is the fact that they are a young, exciting team that wins games. They're second in the league in goals scored. They're a real team in year one. It took the Thrashers half a decade to become competitive and then they only sustained it for a couple seasons.
But more importantly than either of those, and the reason United won me over as someone who before would watch maybe 5 soccer matches a year, is the fact that they are a young, exciting team that wins games. They're second in the league in goals scored. They're a real team in year one. It took the Thrashers half a decade to become competitive and then they only sustained it for a couple seasons.
Freedman: Atlanta's expansion success is proving naysayers were all wrong
Pretty good article that reiterates most of our points, but here's another:
I can identify with that a lot being in Tampa.
Pretty good article that reiterates most of our points, but here's another:
I can identify with that a lot being in Tampa.
I'm sure this is true for every part of Canada (and the US too I bet). Soccer is the sport you put your kid in when they're 4 and you're not sure if they like sports.
Big McLargehuge
Fragile Traveler
Honestly I'm not terribly surprised, not after the way Cincinnati instantly flocked to a USL team despite not fitting the standard successful MLS market model, especially with the new stadium opening (though the large attendance numbers before that were higher than I was expecting). The real question is how things are 5-10 years down the road when they're struggling.
Playing an appealing brand of soccer certainly helps, too. I hope early success finds them and ownership remains committed to the team. The biggest difference is Arthur Blank, period. MLS owners that also own NFL teams don't tend to be the best owners, but Blank is bucking that trend.
Plus the social-economic concerns - soccer is a cheap sport to play. Both of my siblings played it as kids and they hate the sport. I wanted to play hockey, but my parents couldn't afford it when I was younger so I played baseball instead.
Playing an appealing brand of soccer certainly helps, too. I hope early success finds them and ownership remains committed to the team. The biggest difference is Arthur Blank, period. MLS owners that also own NFL teams don't tend to be the best owners, but Blank is bucking that trend.
Plus the social-economic concerns - soccer is a cheap sport to play. Both of my siblings played it as kids and they hate the sport. I wanted to play hockey, but my parents couldn't afford it when I was younger so I played baseball instead.
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GreenHornet
Registered User
Another point of clarification (or not) re: the Flames and the Omni. If memory serves, Cousins was merely a tenant at the Omni and did not have operating rights like A$G (a.k.a. The Septocluster) had with Philips. As such, he got to keep very little in terms of parking and concessions revenue per the terms of his lease. Throw in the fact that there was next to no TV revenue coming in from the league at the time, and the Flames would've had to sell out the building more than 1 1/2 times over just to break even. And combined with the bath Cousins was taking from his real estate businesses at the time, he was desperate to sell.
Then there is also the revelation made by a few individuals (including former Flames goalie Dan Bouchard, who still lives in ATL) in recent years involving Cousins discovering that league officials were pilfering from the players' pension fund and was either A) forced out of the league or B) blackmailed the league to let him take the larger offer from Nelson Skalbania over the local offer made by actor Glenn Ford, depending on which version of the story you hear.
Bottom line, it was a complicated mess that forced the Flames to move, as opposed to the more simple mess that forced the Thrashers out.
canuckster19
Former CDC Mod
Hockey is a crappy sport, too many traditionalists fear changing it. I can enjoy it because I understand it, but for a casual sports fan? Meh.
Up until two weeks ago, they were playing at Bobby Dodd Stadium. Georgia Tech's football stadium which is over 100 years old.
Duke749
Savannah Ghost Pirates
This is an extremely good point that I'm not sure a lot of people outside of Atlanta understand. It amazes me after living in Kennesaw and Woodstock the last 5 years and working in Roswell how many people are not from here. The amount of fans of other teams you see is astounding.
