OHL Franchise Niagara Ice Dogs punished severely for Hazing

[bobber]

There is no interpretation of good versus bad hazing. It's all bad.

I just experienced bullying, hazing, and worse with my son's youth baseball team. It escalates from small comments to group bullying and worse if it's not put in check. If you think there is anything remotely acceptable about singling out individuals for worse treatment, you're wrong.

Here is the definition of hazing from Safe Sport Canada:
"any conduct that subjects another person—physically, mentally, emotionally or psychologically—to anything that may endanger, abuse, humiliate, degrade or intimidate the person as a condition of joining or being socially accepted by a group, team or organization.”

What delineates hazing versus not is whether the conduct is intended to humiliate / degrade / abuse the individual. The Rookie Dinner is expensive, but not humiliating, and therefore not hazing. Picking up pucks at the end of practice is generally not humiliating or degrading (but it could be if older players are making derogatory comments to the rookies).

Of course, a good organization does not tolerate anything like that. Check out Zdeno Chara's comments on the matter.

Zdeno Chara No. 1 Moment As Teammate: Leading Effort To Stop Hazing Of First-Year Players - NESN.com

Editor’s note: On Sunday, May 31, at 7 p.m. ET, NESN will be airing “Chara at 1000,” celebrating Zdeno Chara reaching the 1,000 game milestone in a Bruins uniform. In the lead-up to that, we will be remembering Chara’s finest moments in Boston — both on and off the ice. For more stories...

nesn.com

If you want to know why the Bruins have been a top organization for so long, look to Chara and Bergeron and how they treat their teammates.

When Scott Stevens was a rookie there wasn't a vet on the team that would haze him. They were frightened of the result. Hazing and bullying rookies should be a thing of the past. I use to attend practices and watch the rookies pick up the pucks and buckets and they considered it part of being on an OHL team. The other crap they pulled back in the day was dumb. Like having their hair buzzed off and other silly embarrassments. Rangers did have a player that seem to use some bully tactics at practice that seemed to be ignored back then. I won't mention his name but most OHL fans knew of his reputation on the 3 teams he was a member of in the past.

 

[OMG67]

There is no interpretation of good versus bad hazing. It's all bad.

I just experienced bullying, hazing, and worse with my son's youth baseball team. It escalates from small comments to group bullying and worse if it's not put in check. If you think there is anything remotely acceptable about singling out individuals for worse treatment, you're wrong.

Here is the definition of hazing from Safe Sport Canada:
"any conduct that subjects another person—physically, mentally, emotionally or psychologically—to anything that may endanger, abuse, humiliate, degrade or intimidate the person as a condition of joining or being socially accepted by a group, team or organization.”

What delineates hazing versus not is whether the conduct is intended to humiliate / degrade / abuse the individual. The Rookie Dinner is expensive, but not humiliating, and therefore not hazing. Picking up pucks at the end of practice is generally not humiliating or degrading (but it could be if older players are making derogatory comments to the rookies).

Of course, a good organization does not tolerate anything like that. Check out Zdeno Chara's comments on the matter.

Zdeno Chara No. 1 Moment As Teammate: Leading Effort To Stop Hazing Of First-Year Players - NESN.com

Editor’s note: On Sunday, May 31, at 7 p.m. ET, NESN will be airing “Chara at 1000,” celebrating Zdeno Chara reaching the 1,000 game milestone in a Bruins uniform. In the lead-up to that, we will be remembering Chara’s finest moments in Boston — both on and off the ice. For more stories...

nesn.com

If you want to know why the Bruins have been a top organization for so long, look to Chara and Bergeron and how they treat their teammates.

Team imposed hazing has been an accepted practise for quite some time. I pointed to multiple “accepted” examples where players need to go through certain rituals or temporary servitude to earn their place on the team. There is a place for it, whether you want to call it hazing or right of passage or whatever. The reality is it exists and is accepted.

There wouldn’t be a “rookie dinner“ across all teams in the NHL if it weren’t accepted. There is a reason why the rookies collect the pucks after practise and after game warmups. It may not be at the same degree of degradation as what we normally constitute as hazing but it still qualifies as hazing.

 

[ohloutsider]

Team imposed hazing has been an accepted practise for quite some time. I pointed to multiple “accepted” examples where players need to go through certain rituals or temporary servitude to earn their place on the team. There is a place for it, whether you want to call it hazing or right of passage or whatever. The reality is it exists and is accepted.

There wouldn’t be a “rookie dinner“ across all teams in the NHL if it weren’t accepted. There is a reason why the rookies collect the pucks after practise and after game warmups. It may not be at the same degree of degradation as what we normally constitute as hazing but it still qualifies as hazing.

Just for clarity rookies in Windsor don't pick up the pucks . They send non players out after the warm up to pick up the pucks. Same kids that shovel the snow at the 10 minute mark. Also was told that all players have to load their bags on the bus now, but I have not actually seen that so can't confirm.

 

[SpezzaNoLookDropPass]

Just for clarity rookies in Windsor don't pick up the pucks . They send non players out after the warm up to pick up the pucks. Same kids that shovel the snow at the 10 minute mark. Also was told that all players have to load their bags on the bus now, but I have not actually seen that so can't confirm.

I believe the league sent out a league wide memo banning players from being forced to load players equipment or picking up the pucks. Could be wrong but I swear I had read it somewhere. Harmless little thing imo but due to the optics of everything else that came out I understand it

 

[OMG67]

I believe the league sent out a league wide memo banning players from being forced to load players equipment or picking up the pucks. Could be wrong but I swear I had read it somewhere. Harmless little thing imo but due to the optics of everything else that came out I understand it

Wouldn’t be surprised. I know this used to be common practice. I guess even the league has tried to eliminate the normal little things.

Now it’s up to the NHL to get rid of the rookie dinner!

 

[Logosarejusttargets]

Wouldn’t be surprised. I know this used to be common practice. I guess even the league has tried to eliminate the normal little things.

Now it’s up to the NHL to get rid of the rookie dinner!

Players still need to load/unload the bus. The picking up the pucks things is not a rule from the league - it's probably team / team.

 

[Jawk]

Players still need to load/unload the bus. The picking up the pucks things is not a rule from the league - it's probably team / team.

In Hamilton players no longer pick up pucks after warm up, visiting or home, after warm up.

That happened out of the blue, I think 2 seasons ago? I'm sure I'm wrong on the timeline.

I think picking up pucks, loading the bus, vets getting more space on the bus is all innocent stuff, but where is the line between innocent and guilty?

Best to just ban it all.

 

[rve24]

I believe the league sent out a league wide memo banning players from being forced to load players equipment or picking up the pucks. Could be wrong but I swear I had read it somewhere. Harmless little thing imo but due to the optics of everything else that came out I understand it

At the Knights game last Friday pucks were picked up by non players at both ends.

 

[three dog night]

Niagara IceDogs

niagaraicedogs.net

 

[Ferguson Jenkins]

delete

 

[ColtsNLeafs]

Thought I read somewhere that Gretzky was a minority owner of the Ice Dogs? Just can't see him wanting his name attached to this fiasco.

He does. At this point, if I were Gretzky, I would sell or just giveaway my take in the team. Just a nightmare situation and I wouldn't want any part of it

 

[OMG67]

I really think we need to reserve judgement until after this upcoming season. It is easy to jump on this now and clearly it is a pretty big disappointment but at the same time, it is DD’s first year. Granted, a gong show but still a first year. Let’s see what happens with a new GM in place and a developing roster. This could all end up being part of the fresh start the team needed. I’m trying to find the silver lining and I truly believe this could all be part of it.

I think Flint has come a long way in a relatively short period of time. I know the league hasn’t taken over the club operations but I am willing to give them a chance to turn it around.

 

[bigsportsfan]

I really think we need to reserve judgement until after this upcoming season. It is easy to jump on this now and clearly it is a pretty big disappointment but at the same time, it is DD’s first year. Granted, a gong show but still a first year. Let’s see what happens with a new GM in place and a developing roster. This could all end up being part of the fresh start the team needed. I’m trying to find the silver lining and I truly believe this could all be part of it.

I think Flint has come a long way in a relatively short period of time. I know the league hasn’t taken over the club operations but I am willing to give them a chance to turn it around.

I wish I could share your optimism but nothing I have seen this year gives me any hope that things will improve. DeDobbelaer has slashed the team's budget by making multiple cuts, has shown he does not understand how to build an OHL team and had three different head coaches this season and parted ways with Rick Wamsley a couple of months after hiring him as a Hockey Consultant. I believe he made 26 trades this past season involving 33 player transactions, which resulted in the worst record in Niagara IceDogs history. And then you have his two junior teams in Brantford who struggle almost every season.

Off the ice, things are just as bad. He has stopped serving meals to the media/scouts, the game day experience is below par, the pre-game festivities that most teams have were non-existent, he barely speaks to the media and the turnover in the business office has been extremely high.

And now you have this new incident. There has been so many negative things happen that you could literally make a documentary about this past season.

 

[BadgerBruce]

And because one statement just isn’t enough, the IceDogs have now posted a SECOND statement, this one from the Assistant General Manager.

Niagara IceDogs

niagaraicedogs.net

Quote:

“We recently received the decision of the OHL Commissioner regarding the findings of their investigation against the Niagara IceDogs Hockey Club and two of its players, along with the sanctions imposed upon the club, the players, and the club’s owner and general manager, Darren DeDobbelaer, pursuant to said findings.

We are taking these findings very seriously, and we are fully cooperating with the Commissioner’s office to bring clarity to the situation. We are also focusing on providing support and services to the rest of our players and their families during this difficult time through channels within our organization, the league and outside our organization.

We will continue to communicate with our players and families and update our stakeholders as further developments arise.

The Niagara IceDogs want to make it very clear that The league and The Club put tremendous emphasis on our players well being and safety. The League and The Club are here to ensure the best experience for our players on and off the ice.

We kindly ask that you direct any questions or inquiries regarding this matter to the league office’s attention.”

Sigh. As soon as I read the words “pursuant to said findings,” I knew this statement was drafted by a lawyer and not proofed by a communications specialist. On the plus side, I fully expect the next announcement to be from the interim assistant coordinator of concessions.

 

[OMG67]

I wish I could share your optimism but nothing I have seen this year gives me any hope that things will improve. DeDobbelaer has slashed the team's budget by making multiple cuts, has shown he does not understand how to build an OHL team and had three different head coaches this season and parted ways with Rick Wamsley a couple of months after hiring him as a Hockey Consultant. I believe he made 26 trades this past season involving 33 player transactions, which resulted in the worst record in Niagara IceDogs history. And then you have his two junior teams in Brantford who struggle almost every season.

Off the ice, things are just as bad. He has stopped serving meals to the media/scouts, the game day experience is below par, the pre-game festivities that most teams have were non-existent, he barely speaks to the media and the turnover in the business office has been extremely high.

And now you have this new incident. There has been so many negative things happen that you could literally make a documentary about this past season.

I’m trying to look at it from the perspective that there will be a new GM and hopefully it isn’t a puppet. If it is someone of substance, you may see results.

And because one statement just isn’t enough, the IceDogs have now posted a SECOND statement, this one from the Assistant General Manager.

Niagara IceDogs

niagaraicedogs.net

Quote:

“We recently received the decision of the OHL Commissioner regarding the findings of their investigation against the Niagara IceDogs Hockey Club and two of its players, along with the sanctions imposed upon the club, the players, and the club’s owner and general manager, Darren DeDobbelaer, pursuant to said findings.

We are taking these findings very seriously, and we are fully cooperating with the Commissioner’s office to bring clarity to the situation. We are also focusing on providing support and services to the rest of our players and their families during this difficult time through channels within our organization, the league and outside our organization.

We will continue to communicate with our players and families and update our stakeholders as further developments arise.

The Niagara IceDogs want to make it very clear that The league and The Club put tremendous emphasis on our players well being and safety. The League and The Club are here to ensure the best experience for our players on and off the ice.

We kindly ask that you direct any questions or inquiries regarding this matter to the league office’s attention.”

Sigh. As soon as I read the words “pursuant to said findings,” I knew this statement was drafted by a lawyer and not proofed by a communications specialist. On the plus side, I fully expect the next announcement to be from the interim assistant coordinator of concessions.

And notice DD is still referred to as “GM.”

 

[bobber]

Branch and his cohorts punished the Niagara STH and fans in general more than the owner. They are the people that end up on the short end of the stick. They purchased tickets out of their love of the game. It's a venue some people can afford and the product is exciting hockey at a higher level. Not sure what the criteria is for buying a franchise in the OHL. The league obviously looked at DoDobbelaer as someone they could trust moving forward. Hopefully Branch and others in charge wake up and realizes they owe their cushy jobs to the fans that are paying the freight. There have been several embarrassing incidents over the years and won't be the last. This is the 2nd time for the Dogs. Total embarrassment for their fans. Maybe it's time for a change with those in charge of the league. After all the trades and players refusing to go to Niagara you would think a light bulb would come on inside some ones thick noggin. The owners keep Branch there for a reason I guess.

 

[HF92]

The next bit of news you're going to hear will be about a lawsuit. For sure.

 

[Otto]

Branch and his cohorts punished the Niagara STH and fans in general more than the owner. They are the people that end up on the short end of the stick. They purchased tickets out of their love of the game. It's a venue some people can afford and the product is exciting hockey at a higher level. Not sure what the criteria is for buying a franchise in the OHL. The league obviously looked at DoDobbelaer as someone they could trust moving forward. Hopefully Branch and others in charge wake up and realizes they owe their cushy jobs to the fans that are paying the freight. There have been several embarrassing incidents over the years and won't be the last. This is the 2nd time for the Dogs. Total embarrassment for their fans. Maybe it's time for a change with those in charge of the league. After all the trades and players refusing to go to Niagara you would think a light bulb would come on inside some ones thick noggin. The owners keep Branch there for a reason I guess.

Don't deflect the blame. This is on the owner and the two players and nobody else. The team needs to be punished to send a message to any renegade owner with deep pockets.

 

[bobber]

Don't deflect the blame. This is on the owner and the two players and nobody else. The team needs to be punished to send a message to any renegade owner with deep pockets.

Looking at posts most feel the league has some responsibility in this. They allowed this owner to buy the franchise. Anyway I stated y opinion and stick by it.

 

[EvenSteven]

Don't deflect the blame. This is on the owner and the two players and nobody else. The team needs to be punished to send a message to any renegade owner with deep pockets.

The team needs to be sent a message sure. Then boot the two players as they’ve done. $100,000 fine isn’t much as has been pointed out. Lower the boom on the owner. Five times that fine minimum would be significant and would send a message league wide.

Forfeiting the 1st rounder is a penalty the fans don’t deserve.

 

[Otto]

Looking at posts most feel the league has some responsibility in this. They allowed this owner to buy the franchise. Anyway I stated y opinion and stick by it.

Have you ever worked with someone and wonder how they got hired? Unless the owner has had incidents in the past then it's easy for someone to slip through. I asked the question about pre-Ice Dogs incidents in the Niagara forum and as of yet there has been no response

 

[DCruickshank]

Am I right in saying the owner was primarily punished for not following the leagues request to stay silent while the investigation was on going? If this is true (and maybe if it isn't), I find it almost impossible to beleive that no officials/employees of the team knew what was going on. How are only the two players on the carpet???

 

[BadgerBruce]

A few thoughts on the statements (DeDobbaeler’s and Consorti’s).

First, there’s no chance in Hell that DeDobbaeler or his lawyers get their hands on the report by the third-party independent investigators. The report draws upon interviews with 15 former players, coaches, staff and team officials over a period of several months. Not a chance in H-E- Double Hockey Sticks he gets to see those names. Nobody would ever cooperate with a league investigation again if that happens.

Second, there’s no denial by the IceDogs that A) there were violations of the Maltreatment, Bullying and Harassment Protection and Prevention Policy and the Code of Conduct, B) players Joshua Rosenzweig and Landon Cato participated in serious violations of the Player Maltreatment Policy and have violated the OHL Code of Conduct including but not limited to Physical Maltreatment and Aiding and Abetting respectively, and C) Darren DeDobbelaer violated the confidentiality directive of the League. None of the club’s official statements say, “violations did not occur, Rosenzweig and Cato are innocent, DeDobbelaer didn’t blab.”

Third, despite issuing no denials, DeDobbelaer does not provide his version of the truth. His release states, “I look forward to filing my appeal and defending my position,” but he does not state what his position actually is or what, specifically, he plans to appeal. The findings? The sanctions?

Now, Consorti’s statement has the league’s fingerprints all over it.

The most obvious way is this: DeDobbelaer’s statement ends with “I would ask you to direct all comments and inquiries to my legal counsel at Lucentem Sports and Entertainment Law.” Consorti’s statement ends with “We kindly ask that you direct any questions or inquiries regarding this matter to the league office’s attention.” Guess who demanded the second version. Hint: it wasn’t DeDobbelaer.

Also, Consorti’s statement contains this paragraph:

“The Niagara IceDogs want to make it very clear that The league and The Club put tremendous emphasis on our players well being and safety. The League and The Club are here to ensure the best experience for our players on and off the ice.”

The only time you will see the article “The” capitalized (“The League and The Club”) is in official league documents and contracts (Standard Player Agreements, Constitution, etc.). This is a cut and paste paragraph composed by the league office and published under Consorti’s name. Similarly, while DeDobbelaer’s statement says, “I take these allegations very seriously,” Consorti’s says, “We are taking these findings very seriously.” Notice how “allegations” is changed to “findings”? How DeDobbelaer uses the active voice (“I take”) and Consorti uses the passive voice (“We are taking”)? Guess who wrote the second version?

Dave Branch does not appreciate seeing his authority even remotely questioned in print. The league’s constitution provides him with nearly unfettered power to make independent decisions in the best interests of the league, and God help the brash type A personality who deigns to test that authority. The second statement the IceDogs published was unquestionably demanded by the league and “The Club” — through the assistant GM — complied.

 

[Otto]

The team needs to be sent a message sure. Then boot the two players as they’ve done. $100,000 fine isn’t much as has been pointed out. Lower the boom on the owner. Five times that fine minimum would be significant and would send a message league wide.

Forfeiting the 1st rounder is a penalty the fans don’t deserve.

I would imagine the $100,000 isn't an arbitrary number and is probably the max allowed. Doubt the owners would ever approve a $500k fine. Sure, the fans get punished, and they can make choices if they want to support this kind of ownership. By the sounds of it, many have.

 

[BadgerBruce]

Am I right in saying the owner was primarily punished for not following the leagues request to stay silent while the investigation was on going? If this is true (and maybe if it isn't), I find it almost impossible to beleive that no officials/employees of the team knew what was going on. How are only the two players on the carpet???

I think the implication is that the owner/GM discussed the investigation with individuals who were part of the investigation.