OHL Expansion

[Whalers Fan]

They get billetted, sticks, food money, equipment, sticks, tickets, etc.... Approximately $35k-$45k of benefits per year. Thats not bad for 16-20 year old amateurs.

Not every owner makes money in the OHL.

They are also earning money towards college, if they choose to go that route after leaving the OHL.

College BB or Football players will make a tonne of money as pros, if they are good enough.. Same with hockey players.

They are also getting a free college education, if they choose to take advantage of being in school. That's worth a lot of money.

 

[ckg927]

WF: There's just one catch...sign a pro contract, and that offer of a free college education goes out the window. Not many players take advantage of it.

 

[Tigers1992]

WF: There's just one catch...sign a pro contract, and that offer of a free college education goes out the window. Not many players take advantage of it.

Statistically, most do take advantage of it. I don't have hard numbers, but can get them. Of all the players who graduated last year, I think 65 or 70 percent have committed to a CIS school (eg. Brock Buekeboom to PEI, Savo to the University of Windsor, Michael Morrison to Waterloo) Some went pro, some already had NHL contracts. Also keep in mind that most teams require kids to take at least two classes after high school, so they are cashing it in while still playing.

Its not a perfect system, but it works for those who are serious about education. You can't force kids to go to school.

 

[krazy kanuck]

Statistically, most do take advantage of it. I don't have hard numbers, but can get them. Of all the players who graduated last year, I think 65 or 70 percent have committed to a CIS school (eg. Brock Buekeboom to PEI, Savo to the University of Windsor, Michael Morrison to Waterloo) Some went pro, some already had NHL contracts. Also keep in mind that most teams require kids to take at least two classes after high school, so they are cashing it in while still playing.

Its not a perfect system, but it works for those who are serious about education. You can't force kids to go to school.

Beat me to it. This misconception seems to permeate into so many other discussions about junior hockey (i.e. "draft manipulation", headshots etc.) - most players who play in the OHL will NEVER play meaningful NHL hockey but will take advantage of the scholarship program. Sometimes it means they cann't sign a flyer pro-deal to keep their scholarship intact, but the option to go to school on a scholarship is clearly there for them. Having said that, the wouldn't have been able to sign that same flyer deal if they were in the NCAA, so I'm not sure there's a difference.

Your numbers are even a bit low if we're talking about % of guys who never play in the NHL. Intuitively there are three major junior leagues, so even if that were it, that means only 2/5 would make it to the show. But then you add players taking jobs f.rom the NCAA, Europe etc and it's even less. Finally, you can only play in the O for a finite period of time, where some players keep their NHL jobs 10 years +

 

[Tigers1992]

Beat me to it. This misconception seems to permeate into so many other discussions about junior hockey (i.e. "draft manipulation", headshots etc.) - most players who play in the OHL will NEVER play meaningful NHL hockey but will take advantage of the scholarship program. Sometimes it means they cann't sign a flyer pro-deal to keep their scholarship intact, but the option to go to school on a scholarship is clearly there for them. Having said that, the wouldn't have been able to sign that same flyer deal if they were in the NCAA, so I'm not sure there's a difference.

Your numbers are even a bit low if we're talking about % of guys who never play in the NHL. Intuitively there are three major junior leagues, so even if that were it, that means only 2/5 would make it to the show. But then you add players taking jobs f.rom the NCAA, Europe etc and it's even less. Finally, you can only play in the O for a finite period of time, where some players keep their NHL jobs 10 years +

The stat was from last year, I can't remember the exact numbers or percentages, but its close. Those where just the graduating 91's and 92's. Alot of people like to say 'they never use it', when statistically, its almost the opposite.

 

[ckg927]

Tigers: I think you can add Dylan MacEachern to that list. He played for Niagara virtually all of his career until he was dealt to London midway through his last season. He's now at Brock University finishing up his second season with the Badgers. (Dalton McGrath, another ex-IceDog, is also at Brock.)

Beukeboom wasn't on the UPEI roster for last season(he might be going for next season). He'll have some company; Chris DeSousa and Reggie Traccitto are on the Panthers roster(Traccitto did get a pro tryout in the ECHL, but not much came of it).

 

[Bjorn Le]

USA

1. Toledo, OH - brand new arena downtown that is amazing, geographically speaking would tie into a road trip to Saginaw and Plymouth. Everything yells move to this city, but the ECHL has a team here and infringing on the territory might be difficult.
2. Youngstown, OH - new arena (seats over 5,100) and while this market would be a perfect fit for the league (tie in as a 2 game road trip with Erie) there are obstacles. USHL has a franchise there, but the thought is interesting.
5. Flint, MI - Flint has a few things in place...arena size is about 4,400, but need some repairs (reportedly). Has always been a pro hockey town, so I'm not sure how will this would go over. Flint is a town that is very depressed due to the economy and the fanbase may not support a team due to financial situations in the city.

These are just some of the top markets I have thought of off the top of my head...many things factor into a new market, education possibilities for the players, population of the city and local area, news outlets etc.

Are there any other markets suitable to mention here........

Good luck getting Canadian kids to play in Youngstown or Flint. Especially Flint. I've been to each of those cities once, I never want to go back.

For Canada, I've said it before when these threads but put up but I really think teams should get put in areas which isn't being served by another team. Cornwall and Stratford fit that description, though both have problems.

 

[Taoiseach]

If I had my way, Cornwall would get a QMJHL team, rather than an OHL team. A big part of their downfall was that in moving to the OHL, they alienated a lot of their fans in Western Québec. They didn't get any new fans in Eastern Ontario, and lost a sizeable crop of fans from the Montérégie.

The key with Cornwall is that something would fail. I suspect that it wouldn't be the Royals who did though. Junior A operating expenses likely aren't so great that they would be in trouble, but the River Kings would surely be packing up within a season, if they didn't move immediately. Does Cornwall have another 1000-ish seat arena? They tore down the Si Miller, and that would have been a logical choice for the Colts to move back to.

 

[ckg927]

To back up post #32: I think you can forget about the O EVER coming to Toledo or Youngstown. The Walleye and the Phantoms(respectively)would not stand for it at all, simply because it would be cutting the fanbase in each city. As for Flint, they're in the NAHL with the Michigan Warriors-same reason why they won't go in.

 

[dogfan]

Asked a local media person about moving to the USA and he said he didn't think it would happen. From his prospective the local media coverage hasn't been that good. Erie would have the best media coverage and that's still behind other local sports. Plymouth and Saginaw is pretty bad. Can you imagine an OHL final with Toledo/Erie in from the East vs Plymouth/Saginaw in the West. There would be nothing. No OHL action pak, no sportsnet, hardly any paper coverage at all. He didn't think Rogers would pay for the feed from the USA to air on the Action Pak and Sportsnet will not do games in the States.
Media exposure is pretty high up on the leagues list of priorities.

 

[Bjorn Le]

Well you wouldn't have to worry about that because Erie is in the west (And will never move to the west) and if Toledo gets a team it won't be an eastern conference team.

 

[HamiltonOHL]

Basically what has happen is since MOntreal cant move their AHL squad yet they pretty just renewed their contract with hamilton for another 3 with a option out after 2, then that way after 2 yrs they can split to Laval giving Hamilton a OHL team in 2 yrs..

 

[big papa]

Basically what has happen is since MOntreal cant move their AHL squad yet they pretty just renewed their contract with hamilton for another 3 with a option out after 2, then that way after 2 yrs they can split to Laval giving Hamilton a OHL team in 2 yrs..

Id say if the OHL was looking to move/expand in 2-3 years then Hamilton would likely be on the top of that list, they have supported the bull dogs very well and they could just sell lower bowl tickets if there worried about not filling the arena much like in the WHL with the Oil Kings and Hitman as they play in the same arena as the Oilers and Flames

 

[Chewy63]

i would absolutely love to see OHL in Buffalo, New York. I think all the diehard fans in Buffalo would love seeing prospects come through their building. Although i dont see them playing out of the First Niagara Center, they are building the new HARBORcentre with two new rinks, one seating 1800. But that is clearly not enough for OHL standards (New North Bay franchise was required to sell 2000 season tickets before they were granted the franchise). A more realistic option for Buffalo is an USHL team! WHich would be cool, but not as cool as an OHL team hahah. President of the Sabres Ted Black said he will not consider a USHL team in Buffalo until more teams located closer to them are in place, as he believes the travel for all the high school students is to much. (Closest team Youngstown, Ohio)

 

[krazy kanuck]

Does Cornwall have another 1000-ish seat arena? They tore down the Si Miller, and that would have been a logical choice for the Colts to move back to.

You mean the Sting? They moved from Cornwall to Newmarket to Sarnia. I haven't heard anything to suggest the Colts are moving...

 

[ckg927]

i would absolutely love to see OHL in Buffalo, New York. I think all the diehard fans in Buffalo would love seeing prospects come through their building. Although i dont see them playing out of the First Niagara Center, they are building the new HARBORcentre with two new rinks, one seating 1800. But that is clearly not enough for OHL standards (New North Bay franchise was required to sell 2000 season tickets before they were granted the franchise). A more realistic option for Buffalo is an USHL team! WHich would be cool, but not as cool as an OHL team hahah. President of the Sabres Ted Black said he will not consider a USHL team in Buffalo until more teams located closer to them are in place, as he believes the travel for all the high school students is to much. (Closest team Youngstown, Ohio)

The USHL will NOT go for that in any way, shape or form.

There's only 1 rink in the USHL that has a lower seating capacity that the HarborCenter's main rink...and that's in Ann Arbor.

 

[chrysleraspen08]

You mean the Sting? They moved from Cornwall to Newmarket to Sarnia. I haven't heard anything to suggest the Colts are moving...

I think you are a bit confused...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornwall_Colts

 

[SPORTSMANIAC]

The USHL will NOT go for that in any way, shape or form.

There's only 1 rink in the USHL that has a lower seating capacity that the HarborCenter's main rink...and that's in Ann Arbor.

While your point valid but if the USHL ever decides to go East or partner with the USPHL (a new junior league starting in the East Coast) I could see USA Hockey/USHL cut the seating requirement for arenas down.

For that to happen there will have to be a reform in the entire Tier I system in the USA and rumors are reform may be coming.

In my opinion for the USHL to go East, I believe they will wait to see if the Erie market opens up. If Erie does leave the OHL I could see the USHL moving into town a year or two after. Then you could see more Eastern teams pop up.

 

[ckg927]

While your point valid but if the USHL ever decides to go East or partner with the USPHL (a new junior league starting in the East Coast) I could see USA Hockey/USHL cut the seating requirement for arenas down.

For that to happen there will have to be a reform in the entire Tier I system in the USA and rumors are reform may be coming.

In my opinion for the USHL to go East, I believe they will wait to see if the Erie market opens up. If Erie does leave the OHL I could see the USHL moving into town a year or two after. Then you could see more Eastern teams pop up.

If Erie leaves the OHL, I think it becomes a more attractive market for the ECHL, not the USHL. Understand, I'm not saying you're wrong, just that the ECHL may be more desirable-and, if you think about it, Erie would have come full circle; they used to have a team in the ECHL. At that point, you'll have a nicely redone arena for whoever the main tenant is(and based on the reboot so far-they're finishing it up in the offseason-it'll be worth the wait).

 

[Dadof3]

Potential expansion destinations

When I made up that list, these were simply suggestions of municipalities that could house an OHL team.

Obviously there are frontrunners like anything else, and some that were longshots, but all have some merit in their own way. The longshots have some difficulties that need to be worked through, but they all could work.

I think the biggest thing you have to look at right away is the size of their building. If they don't meet the minimum, are they willing to build an arena to OHL standards? Once that hurdle is cleared, then others have to be looked at (education for the players, fan base, media coverage, etc) but without the building, it all becomes irrelevant.

Does anyone have another idea about a city that has not been mentioned yet?

 

[Dadof3]

cgj - I think the ECHL has outgrown Erie, and I would not be interested. The new owner would have to have incredibly deep pockets with an arena that small - IMO

 

[Dadof3]

Taoiseach.....with the expansion of the Q in the past 10 years, I'm not sure if Cornwall would be viable there anymore. Years back, when they were in the league, it was a heavy Montreal based league (Verdun, Laval, and others like Hull). Now with the Maritime influence, it might be too far to go......but I guess you could do "Southern" swings to play in Cornwall, Gatineau and Blainville-Boisbriand.

It just seems like a lot of travelling. The difference be between them going to Halifax vs Plymouth is an extra 500km MORE each way (to Halifax). Not sure if that is the right decision.........but it does seem that you have a handle on the area.

I'm just pointing things out from a logistical standpoint.

 

[Taoiseach]

Taoiseach.....with the expansion of the Q in the past 10 years, I'm not sure if Cornwall would be viable there anymore. Years back, when they were in the league, it was a heavy Montreal based league (Verdun, Laval, and others like Hull). Now with the Maritime influence, it might be too far to go......but I guess you could do "Southern" swings to play in Cornwall, Gatineau and Blainville-Boisbriand.

It just seems like a lot of travelling. The difference be between them going to Halifax vs Plymouth is an extra 500km MORE each way (to Halifax). Not sure if that is the right decision.........but it does seem that you have a handle on the area.

I'm just pointing things out from a logistical standpoint.

I don't think that it would be that big of a deal. Everybody has to go to Hull and the Abitibi at least once, so from the point of view of the other teams it wouldn't make much difference. You'd simply add a game in Cornwall when you play the Olympiques, Foreurs, Huskies, etc.

You might add a bit of extra expense to the Royals organisation, but the potential to cash in on the Monterégie like they used to would be well worth it. Royals fans would be Royals fans anyway, and they'd get those people in the OHL or the QMJHL. Everybody else in Eastern Ontario that cares about Major Junior is either an Olympiques, 67's or Frontenacs fan already, and you're not likely to win them over. Whereas many people in the Monterégie will likely come back into the fold if the Royals return to the QMJHL, and hey'll continue to not care if the team is in the OHL. Moving to the OHL and alienating that one extra region that they could cash in on was the beginning of the end for the Royals. And for visiting fans, you'd get just as many Olympiques, Armada, or Voltigeurs fans as you would 67's, Frontenacs, or Bulls fans. You'd probably get more Tigres and Phoenix fans than you would Petes or Generals fans too.

I wouldn't be too concerned about extra distance for the twice a year that they'd have to go out to the Maritimes. And they need to do something about the Abitibi-Maritime first round matchups anyway.

 

[coolhockeyjack]

What about Toronto? You could put an OHL team in Ricoh. Move the Marlies to Brampton.

 

[OHLFan8771]

What about Toronto? You could put an OHL team in Ricoh. Move the Marlies to Brampton.

They just moved a team out of Toronto about 2 years ago. Attendance was terrible there.