Speculation: Offseason coaching thread: Should they stay or should they go?

[Ugene Magic]

Some folks need a trip to Vegas or Atlantic City or something.

Damn.

Some people need to go to the Funny Farm and head down to the diner and break the sheep balls eating record.

 

[Andy99]

People, everyone needs to do this…whether in Boston or not…Twitter barrage FSG lol

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Buddy you better get outta there before they send the Boston Dynamics machine gun robodog after your ass.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

People, everyone needs to do this…whether in Boston or not…Twitter barrage FSG lol

Reminds me of the walkout fans staged against the Pirates. Bunch of 40-somethings paid tickets to a game, wore matching shirts, and then left at a pre-determined time.

They got their 15 minutes of fame on TV.

Nothing changed with the Pirates.

 

[Pancakes]

Reminds me of the walkout fans staged against the Pirates. Bunch of 40-somethings paid tickets to a game, wore matching shirts, and then left at a pre-determined time.

They got their 15 minutes of fame on TV.

Nothing changed with the Pirates.

I don't closely follow the fortunes of the Pirates, but changes tend to happen when misfortunes are felt in the wallet by ownership.

I think the problem with the Pirates from what I understand is the way MLB is setup with the revenue sharing they tend to make money whether they win or lose as long as their payroll doesn't balloon. And if it would ever threaten to, they'd just sell off players that cost too much money. So even if the Pirates became good, they'd probably ship out their good players as soon as they started to cost too much. The small market teams in baseball are basically farm teams for the Yankees and Dodgers.

Anyhow, hockey is a little different thanks to the cap. There are teams that don't spend to the cap of course, but teams like the Penguins (who aren't a small market team, but obviously aren't the Leafs/Rangers etc) don't have to deal with the Rangers just spending 800 billion on Crosby as soon as he hits free agency and can actually afford to keep him.

So then, looping allll the way around to your original point (sorry, I got off on a tangent), I think that fan discontent for the Penguins in regards to Sullivan or whomever/whatever actually has more of a chance to effect change for the organization given that NHL teams make a lot of money from playoff revenues and simply owning a team isn't quite as much a license to print money as it is the way MLB is setup.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

I don't closely follow the fortunes of the Pirates, but changes tend to happen when misfortunes are felt in the wallet by ownership.

I think the problem with the Pirates from what I understand is the way MLB is setup with the revenue sharing they tend to make money whether they win or lose as long as their payroll doesn't balloon. And if it would ever threaten to, they'd just sell off players that cost too much money. So even if the Pirates became good, they'd probably ship out their good players as soon as they started to cost too much. The small market teams in baseball are basically farm teams for the Yankees and Dodgers.

Anyhow, hockey is a little different thanks to the cap. There are teams that don't spend to the cap of course, but teams like the Penguins (who aren't a small market team, but obviously aren't the Leafs/Rangers etc) don't have to deal with the Rangers just spending 800 billion on Crosby as soon as he hits free agency and can actually afford to keep him.

So then, looping allll the way around to your original point (sorry, I got off on a tangent), I think that fan discontent for the Penguins in regards to Sullivan or whomever/whatever actually has more of a chance to effect change for the organization given that NHL teams make a lot of money from playoff revenues and simply owning a team isn't quite as much a license to print money as it is the way MLB is setup.

Does MLB's lack of a salary cap put smaller market teams like the Pirates with shallow pocketed owners at a disadvantage? Absolutely.

But other teams make it work.

After three consecutive playoffs appearances in 2013, 2014, and 2015 - the first playoff appearances in 20 years - the Pirates had a significant increase in revenue.

Their response was to cut team payroll. They haven't made the playoffs since. Fan pressure has done nothing. Lack of attendance has done nothing.

Fan pressure rarely impacts ownership decisions in any sport. The Fire Hextall chants had nothing to do with FSG's final decision - Hextall's performance and management style did.

If Mike Sullivan is going to be fired, it'll be because FSG believes his performance is no longer satisfactory, not because the fans want a change. The same would be true under Mario, too. Remember, they held onto Bylsma and Shero longer than fans wanted. Fans wanted Bylsma gone after the Philly debacle.

 

[Pancakes]

Does MLB's lack of a salary cap put smaller market teams like the Pirates with shallow pocketed owners at a disadvantage? Absolutely.

But other teams make it work.

After three consecutive playoffs appearances in 2013, 2014, and 2015 - the first playoff appearances in 20 years - the Pirates had a significant increase in revenue.

Their response was to cut team payroll. They haven't made the playoffs since. Fan pressure has done nothing. Lack of attendance has done nothing.

Fan pressure rarely impacts ownership decisions in any sport. The Fire Hextall chants had nothing to do with FSG's final decision - Hextall's performance and management style did.

If Mike Sullivan is going to be fired, it'll be because FSG believes his performance is no longer satisfactory, not because the fans want a change. The same would be true under Mario, too. Remember, they held onto Bylsma and Shero longer than fans wanted. Fans wanted Bylsma gone after the Philly debacle.

That's exactly my point with MLB though. The best you can hope for there as a Pirates fan is to get a few years of playoff appearances and maybe even a championship out of that small window. After that, player payrolls skyrocket and a team like the Pirates is just going to punt all their now heavily priced players out. The Indians (well Guardians now I suppose) have been doing that since the 90's. And have generally been better run than the Pirates (though who isn't lol). But that's about the best you can hope for as a small market team.

Re your bolded point: yes, FSG would have to feel it in the wallet. If fans stop going to Pirates games they still make pretty good money thanks to the way revenue sharing works. They'd just cut payroll even more than they have in that instance and still make money.

Little harder to do that in hockey so if Sullivan drives the Pens into the ground FSG is gonna feel that way more than the Pirates ever would.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

What are the odds Dubas convinces all of Mike Sullivan, FSG and Sheldon Keefe that the latter should join our coaching staff? Not sure I believe the reports of New Jersey's interest in Keefe as a HC. It might be adding a name into the mix to help negotiate with the guy they really want. I don't know.

I would think Dubas could convince Keefe to spend a year as an associate head coach, but I am less sure he can convince Sullivan that it is a good idea.

 

[Gurglesons]

What are the odds Dubas convinces all of Mike Sullivan, FSG and Sheldon Keefe that the latter should join our coaching staff? Not sure I believe the reports of New Jersey's interest in Keefe as a HC. It might be adding a name into the mix to help negotiate with the guy they really want. I don't know.

I would think Dubas could convince Keefe to spend a year as an associate head coach, but I am less sure he can convince Sullivan that it is a good idea.

I think it is obvious at this point Keefe will either be coming here as a head coach or another org as one.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

What are the odds Dubas convinces all of Mike Sullivan, FSG and Sheldon Keefe that the latter should join our coaching staff? Not sure I believe the reports of New Jersey's interest in Keefe as a HC. It might be adding a name into the mix to help negotiate with the guy they really want. I don't know.

I would think Dubas could convince Keefe to spend a year as an associate head coach, but I am less sure he can convince Sullivan that it is a good idea.

Given the number of openings and how quickly Keefe has been connected to interviewing for a couple of them, I think he's going to land another head coaching job.

 

[Empoleon8771]

What are the odds Dubas convinces all of Mike Sullivan, FSG and Sheldon Keefe that the latter should join our coaching staff? Not sure I believe the reports of New Jersey's interest in Keefe as a HC. It might be adding a name into the mix to help negotiate with the guy they really want. I don't know.

I would think Dubas could convince Keefe to spend a year as an associate head coach, but I am less sure he can convince Sullivan that it is a good idea.

Keefe won't take an associate coach job here, he'd get a head coaching job with someone like New Jersey over that.

Keefe coaching the Devils is going to make them terrifying IMO.

 

[Gurglesons]

Keefe won't take an associate coach job here, he'd get a head coaching job with someone like New Jersey over that.

Keefe coaching the Devils is going to make them terrifying IMO.

lol what

 

[MetalheadPenguinsFan]

Am surprised we haven’t hired Queef yet

 

[The Great Mighty Poo]

Keefe won't take an associate coach job here, he'd get a head coaching job with someone like New Jersey over that.

Keefe coaching the Devils is going to make them terrifying IMO.

Needs more Bylsma and Johnston

 

[66-30-33]

lol what

This. Devils have no goaltending.

 

[Gurglesons]

This. Devils have no goaltending.

I'm just not sure what Keefe is going to do for the Devils. He's a mid coach who couldn't take a better group of stars anywhere.

 

[HandshakeLine]

The Devils are a very perplexing team in many ways. But mid coaches can go far with the right rosters-- see basically any Sid/Geno era Pens team that won the cup.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

The Devils are a very perplexing team in many ways. But mid coaches can go far with the right rosters-- see basically any Sid/Geno era Pens team that won the cup.

A coach can be better in a given year, just like the players.
When they first arrive, it's not just about it being a new voice. The coach's motivation is at a high point then too.
It's just like anything in life. You do something for long enough and you lose your edge. Sullivan certainly did. When he first came here he used to inspire me

 

[HandshakeLine]

Yeah, which is why I don't think any teams should really get too attached to coaches or goalies.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

The Devils need health to be on their side, to have a coach who isn't gonna get in their players' way (*ahem*Ruff, Sullivan*ahem*), and they need their goalies to not completely crater again. Lots of good players already, just a matter of things falling into place imo. I'd be worried about their goalies if I were a Devils fan though.

 

[molon labe]

Devils are [100%] going to land a goalie this Summer.

We keep F'ing around over here with mids/grinders and Mike Sullivan and are going to [continue to] find out.

Which of:
Florida
Boston
Toronto
Tampa

NYR
NYI
CAR

Misses next year? K, now add New Jersey.

Team isn't sniffing the playoffs for the next half decade or more with the trajectory and foolish game plan they are sticking with. This ignores Buffalo and Ottawa as well which won't sit on their hands this Summer either.

 

[LOGiK]

Some people need to go to the Funny Farm and head down to the diner and break the sheep balls eating record.

They don't make sheep balls like they used to....
=P

 

[66-30-33]

It's crazy we still have Sullivan here...We are trying to make the playoffs yet keep a coach that can't get us there. We are wasting our cores final couple years FOR NO REASON!!! this org does not operate in logic, I guess they like losing money. Maybe Crosby should go for the highest amount he wants and Malkin when he re-signs (if he does) does the same thing. Meh. This is us for the next few years...going for it but not quite good enough, but not willing to change things to actually get there.

 

[Victor Z]

This ignores Buffalo and Ottawa as well which won't sit on their hands this Summer either.

Detroit too, I would think. Or even Philly.

As to the previous list, I could definitely see NYI dropping out of the playoff picture next year. It's a rare team that has a coach worse than Mike Sullivan, but the Islanders do.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Three Penguins Players Undergo Successful Surgeries | Pittsburgh Penguins

Pittsburgh Penguins defensemen Kris Letang and John Ludvig, as well as forward Matt Nieto, recently underwent successful surgeries, it was announced today by President of Hockey Operations and General Manager Kyle Dubas. Letang underwent surgery to repair a fractured finger on his left hand on...

www.nhl.com

Surgeries for Letang, Nieto and Ludvig. Letang is out 8 weeks, Ludvig is out 4-6 months and Nieto is out 6-7 months. Think this firmly ends the Nieto experiment.