Player Discussion Official Goaltending Anger Palooza Thread

[LT]

They got a pick back, as well.

Believe the deal was:

2nd, 3rd, 6th for Talbot, 7th

So basically a 2nd and 3rd for Talbot.

At the time, I did think we made the right choice. More proven net-minder at the expense of potential, but we got someone who we thought would be able to start at least 30-40 games for us and give us a competent net-minder for a 7th, as opposed to a 2nd and 3rd.

I personally wasn't sold on Talbot, but I can see why others were.

Took a gamble and lost, I guess. I'm not a big fan of how overvalued picks seem to be, though.

 

[FirstRowUpperDeck]

Yeah, while I said it was a weakness, I do understand Nill had cap room as his strongest team building asset, and would be inclined to go the UFA route.

Also, I think there was some debate as to whether Talbot, with what, 25 NHL games, was a sure bet. The young goalie going nuts just at RFA period is a story as old as the hills, and he had just a big (actually, still does) shot at falling back.

By the same token, Niemii was great early and this decision looked wise. Yes, he is in a slump, but all goalies get them, and we have reason to believe he can play well enough for us come playoff time. Given Nill's win now mode, his experience might even make him a tad bit better choice than Talbot, if he snaps out of the current slump.

I don't think we can call the Niemi mode a total bust just because of the last 5-10 games.

 

[tjcurrie]

Even when the tandem was working fairly well the first half of the season, I still believed we made a mistake. Certainly Talbot could fall back, and Niemi bounce forward again. That's always a possibility.

Things are just in Talbot's corner right now. The talk of him by scouts and our own Jeff Reese, and now what he has showed so far on a horrible Edmonton team.

This is a time where I'd rather be wrong. It pains me to see how awesome Talbot has been.

A 28 year old would have been someone to grow with this team and be more than a stop-gap retread.

I believe it is a prime example of overvaluing picks. I think that old Detroit M.O. burned us this time.

 

[Ghost of Kyiv]

Mike Heika was on the Marek vs Wyshynski Podcast to talk about the Russell trade a couple days ago. It was an interesting discussion especially when Mike went on a tangent and had this to say.

I’ll go back to Jim Nill, and how he has done things. In the summer time, I think he really wanted Cam Talbot. So he’s trying to get Cam Talbot and he’s offering one of the 12 prospects who are pretty good and all the Rangers want is Julius Honka. Well, Julius Honka might be their best prospect so he says no. And so [Nill] says pick one of the other 12. And [the Rangers] want Julius Honka, that’s all they want. And as the story is told to me, Jim Nill says fine, see ya later and goes out and gets Anti Niemi.

Nill was interviewed after the draft and asked about Talbot, I haven't looked for the interview but I remember Nill saying that the Rangers had an unrealistic asking price. The rumor that were previously going around the interwebs was that something like Jokipakka + the 49th pick that eventually turned into Roope Hintz was being discussed. At the time, I was a little upset, I thought we should have went younger than Niemi and Talbot fit the bill (so did a couple other guys).

If memory serves, the Rangers were pulling out all the stops to get a good return and there was a lot of smoke and leaked speculation that Talbot was going to return the 16th overall pick from Edmonton. I think the Rangers were bluffing and Nill called the bluff. The Oilers got a good goalie out of the situation, the Rangers got a couple of picks, and Dallas get Niemi. Sucks, but it happens.

Edit: The Stars organization leaking that to Heika could all just be to save face however, who knows. Trades are fun.

 

[OttMorrow]

Niemi can redeem himself if he brings some playoff magic, but we need a goalie who performs in the regular season as well. Had the Stars not absolutely lit it up in 2015, we'd be wondering if Niemi would even see a playoff game this year.

 

[FirstRowUpperDeck]

You forget that he shut out a high scoring PIT team opening night and we were thrilled. He looked good most nights, and we didn't win them all 6-5, rumors aside.

He is in a slump. Maybe because Kari's slump last year turned out to be pretty much permanent, and hey, at age 32 for many (not all) goalies, that can be age related, we assume Niemi is never bouncing back.

Looked back and Niemi by month has consistently dropped since Jan 1, as noted

SV by month was.
OCT/NOV/DEC/JAN/FEB/MARCH
Niemi 915/.901/.936/.888/.870/.778
Kari .898/.932/.892/.901/.898/.930 (half game)

We got alternately good goal tending from one or the other until New Year, with a few bad games each. Since Jan 1, Niemi has fallen faster than Kari, who is more consistent, but only great in November. Overall, Kari is 2.92GAA and .906 SV, both just marginally better than last year, even with more rest.

 

[FirstRowUpperDeck]

Well, its clear Nill loves Honka. I guess he really feels he needs him and Klingberg to run that fast tempo Detroit offense at some point. Would be nice to keep throwing one or the other over the boards.

Not to mention, his D UFA situation, he may feel he really doesn't have a surplus of young D, depending on where you think he falls on Nemeth and Jamie O. At least, all things considered, even if Talbot does have a higher SV% (.918) than our guys.

 

[OttMorrow]

I'm not sure I would have moved Honka for Talbot either...if that really was the ONLY way to get it done...who knows?

 

[LT]

Hell no to Honka for Talbot. That's an absurd price for a goalie with 50 NHL games under his belt.

I don't get how they can want Honka or 16th and then suddenly drop to 57th + 70th. That is a massive downgrade in value, and I also don't know why they wouldn't re-contact the Stars once the price dropped.

 

[tjcurrie]

I probably do Joki + the pick for Talbot. No, I definitely do that.

I think we have a good one in Hintz, so it sucks to say that, but what we wouldn't have known wouldn't have hurt us, especially if we're getting the type of goaltending Talbot has been giving Edmonton. None of us bat an eye, many of us have Talbot jerseys.

 

[Mr Misty]

Where are all the people crying about missing Lehner and Lack? If this wasn't a hindsight thing, why isn't this thread full of those tears?

 

[Satan]

Where are all the people crying about missing Lehner and Lack? If this wasn't a hindsight thing, why isn't this thread full of those tears?

i wasnt one of these people so i will continue to whine over the current state of goalies

 

[Hockey Dad]

I was not interested in lehener. I would not have minded a trade for Lack.

 

[phil7488]

I remember when Kari was the best player on this team before Benn decided to go off on the entire league a couple years ago. He would never let in bad goals. I think it's a deadly combination of his mental fragility, our current system, average defense corps and riding him too hard before Niemi came along. We also are missing that proverbial shut down dman. I'm hoping something meaningful can be done this offseason via free agency or through a trade because this current set up won't win us a cup. WE ARE SO CLOSE.

 

[tjcurrie]

Where are all the people crying about missing Lehner and Lack? If this wasn't a hindsight thing, why isn't this thread full of those tears?

I personally wasn't interested in either of those goalies.

I wanted Talbot. It stings more now watching everything play out.