Player Discussion Official Goaltending Anger Palooza Thread

[Satan]

The past two years we have had to put up with bad defense and even worse goaltending. The Stars can't compete in the playoffs if they allow 3+ goals a game. It's crazy talk.

January was bad. February was worse. Blame the schedule. Blame the lack of consistency from our top forwards. Blame whoever you want. But I'm laying the blame on our two handed Finnish mess in net.

Vent your anger here.

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[Satan]

 

[LowSodium]

Wow.

 

[serp]

I'm pretty sure everytime the goalies had .900 or better we picked up at least a point. Only they can't even manage that.

Niemi right now is really bad . Goes down really fast , overcommits on plays and to make matters worse he's barely ever able to recover from a bad read. To make it MORE worse right now he also makes bad mistakes

Kari is a missed puck , mistake waiting to happen from the get go but he's better at playing the puck and recovering from a mistake.

With the way Niemi has been playing you gotta go with Kari . Thats not a vote of confidence either but he give the team a better chance and he's not inept handling the puck with his stick.

 

[Satan]

When Niemi goes down to scramble it's almost like the ice turns into memory foam, he just chills out and hits the snooze button.

 

[Ghost of Kyiv]

 

[Hockey Dad]

It is too bad that niemi waited this long to fail. If there were 30-35 games left I would say find an injury for him to clear his head and let legace come up for a start or 2. I am just not sure with the few games left if it can be done.

 

[Satan]

If the Leafs can make Stephane Robidas disappear for an entire season, I think we can put a Finn in the witness protection program or something.

 

[serp]

When Niemi goes down to scramble it's almost like the ice turns into memory foam, he just chills out and hits the snooze button.

It's like he's so sure that he'll scoop up the puck with his scramble play that he can rewards himself pre-emptively with a quick nap on the ice afterwards regardless if he picked up the puck or not. Maybe he's becoming narcoleptic or something ?

 

[MBTendy]

Idk if it would have made difference but I really wanted one of Talbot or Lehner. Wasn't too happy with Niemi. Now I'm furious.

 

[LowSodium]

It is too bad that niemi waited this long to fail. If there were 30-35 games left I would say find an injury for him to clear his head and let legace come up for a start or 2. I am just not sure with the few games left if it can be done.

He has been this bad for a while.

 

[LT]

I don't ever want to see a player get seriously injured, but when Lehtonen took that one in the cajones, I couldn't help but think of Lagace getting a chance and running with it.

He can't be much worse than what we've got now.

 

[Mr Misty]

It's hard for me to conclude we give up goals because our goalies are bad. The first goal was some weird non-coverage by the defense, the second a crazy deflection by Jarnkrok, the third an unstoppable Weber shot, the fourth hit a million people in front of Niemi, and the last was Kari moving right to left on a Neal scorcher. Are these goals worse to give up than the Roussel/Fiddler goals?

The second part is that I don't feel like the other guy is stealing sure goals from our shooters every time either. We score almost as many soft/weird goals as we give up, the other guy isn't standing on his head every night while ours falls on his face. How often do we face a goalie who holds us under his GAA?

But I guess bad things happen too often to us to be bad luck at this point, and we are stuck for 2 more seasons in this pattern.

 

[valente317]

Way to try to stay positive about the goalie situation, Mr Misty, but even the Maple Leafs Sens and Oilers don't pull their starting goalie as often as the Stars do, and that is a problem.

Every recent game has had multiple goals against that an NHL goal should stop 9.5/10 times. That's a problem.

Last night, Niemi tried making some strange flailing save on the first goal, which left him unable to recover and move across the crease. That sort of style just isn't as effective as a modern reverse VH hybrid butterfly, and it's going to reflect in poorer stats.

The Weber goal and the deflected backhander were both easily stoppable, had Niemi been aggressive enough to properly cut off the angles. Sort of reminds me of the goal against WPG where he basically dove out of the way of a point wrister.

Niemi has just been god-awful recently, and he must have nude photos of Lindy Ruff or something, because there is absolutely no reason he should continue to get starts.

 

[Benneguin]

In other news Enroth, yeah that Enroth has a 2.01 GAA and .931 SA. He plays for the Kings who know something about playing defense. Yeah, small sample size' 13 games, but that's what their backups always do and it's not the coaching either. Ben *** Scrivens posted similar numbers when he played with the Kings and as soon as he left he went back to *** bed stat-wise. Coincidence, I think not. Now is Niemi or Kari the answer even if we improve the defense? Who knows. We probably won't find out since we are incapable of developing defensemen nor do we splurge/overspend on top pairing defensemen when they do become available.

 

[Mr Misty]

I was surprised we didn't re-up Enroth, he wasn't terrible here. He would have been cheap and short term, maybe not as good as Niemi but we wouldn't have had to commit.

 

[FirstRowUpperDeck]

I have wondered if there is something systemic that makes goalies (other than Kari for his first three years here) pretty pathetic. They always do worse here, and better somewhere else.

Given the pattern, there would seemingly be something other than the goalies themselves at least partially to blame. Of course, the easy place to point the digits is the below average (and undersized, so maybe they wear down as the season progresses) and the team wide plan to score more and play defense when convenient, i.e., the Nill/Ruff system.

Most teams build from the goalie out, the Stars have chosen to build from the forwards back. Maybe the results are just pretty predicable?

 

[Mr Misty]

In the most recent Heika chat, the man himself wondered if the system puts too much on the goalies.

 

[OttMorrow]

Most teams build from the goalie out, the Stars have chosen to build from the forwards back. Maybe the results are just pretty predicable?

Bing-Bing-Bing! I think we have a winner. Goaltending and defense should always be the cornerstone on which you build a team. a star-studded offense is really a luxury...Every year there is an excuse as to why we pick up a Hemsky, Spezza, or Sharp instead of getting a top pairing D or the best goalie we can...too expensive or whatever it may be. Every year there is an excuse as to why we don't trade up in the draft to get a blue-chip defenseman...it's too expensive, the talent level is about the same at 6 as it is at 20 blah, blah, blah...and NOT making those moves for a goalies/defenseman in a trade, free agency, or the draft is ironically expensive in what it's costing this team a likely lost opportunity to advance in the playoffs. We have gone with excitement-value over the safe/smart bet.

With the wealth of offensive firepower that we have, you'd hope that we could make a trade for a steady top-pairing D...sacrifice a few 6-5 fun wins for a lot of 3-1 wins.

 

[Hockey Dad]

How many good defenseman have been available. How many good goalies have been available. Martin jones was available, but still unknown quantity. Those are the cornerstones of teams so they are not readily available. Nill was improving the team the only way he could. I wish he would have signed Strahlman instead of Hemsky though.

 

[Mr Misty]

How many good defenseman have been available. How many good goalies have been available. Martin jones was available, but still unknown quantity. Those are the cornerstones of teams so they are not readily available. Nill was improving the team the only way he could. I wish he would have signed Strahlman instead of Hemsky though.

This is the problem. Nieuwendyk tried to build via Campbell, then Oleksiak, then Faksa, but things haven't turned out. When Nill got here, he had a good group to build around, a deep farm system, and an owner who wanted to win.

 

[tjcurrie]

How many good defenseman have been available. How many good goalies have been available. Martin jones was available, but still unknown quantity. Those are the cornerstones of teams so they are not readily available. Nill was improving the team the only way he could. I wish he would have signed Strahlman instead of Hemsky though.

Nill backed out of the Cam Talbot deal, deciding to turn to free agency instead. That was a mistake then and it's an even bigger mistake now.

I like Nill, as I should, but I'll always hold that one against him.

 

[OttMorrow]

How many good defenseman have been available. How many good goalies have been available. Martin jones was available, but still unknown quantity. Those are the cornerstones of teams so they are not readily available. Nill was improving the team the only way he could. I wish he would have signed Strahlman instead of Hemsky though.

Like TJ said, Talbot. I really wanted Talbot. He's putting up much better numbers than either of our goalies...IN EDMONTON.

 

[FirstRowUpperDeck]

Like TJ said, Talbot. I really wanted Talbot. He's putting up much better numbers than either of our goalies...IN EDMONTON.

As I said in the Nill thread over in NHL talk, if Nill has a weakness, its that he always seeks value in trade, sometimes to the detriment of getting the player he really needs.

He is reluctant to give up true assets. Even the Russell trade on Monday, except for the second/conditional first, the assets given away were loseable. Not that Louis wasn't our best trade chip, but it really was quantity for quality.

Maybe he feels he has run out of spare parts to trade. Or, as mentioned, maybe the true cost of a goalie or No. 1 D really is beyond what he has to offer in Honka, and other blue chip prospects.

 

[tjcurrie]

Like TJ said, Talbot. I really wanted Talbot. He's putting up much better numbers than either of our goalies...IN EDMONTON.

As I said in the Nill thread over in NHL talk, if Nill has a weakness, its that he always seeks value in trade, sometimes to the detriment of getting the player he really needs.

He is reluctant to give up true assets.

Talbot has been fantastic this season and is easily their MVP. He had a short slide in November I believe it was, but since then he's been nothing short of great, and has earned a new contract. I had hopes that was going to be the case with us, make the deal for him and go from there.

From what I was told, Nill was in, then out because of the picks involved (Reluctant to give up assets as FRUD said), then on the recommendation of new goalie coach Jeff Reese he jumped back in. Talbot even wanted Dallas. At the end of the day though, Nill opted to keep the picks and get a goalie via free agency.

Maybe Niemi can turn it around, but regardless, Talbot was the better option. A 28 year old wanting to prove himself, a guy who was highly touted, a guy groomed by Henrik, a guy even goalie coach Jeff Reese was recommending. He wouldn't have been some retread stop-gap, and the fact is he's just a better goalie.

I don't care that he would have cost us a few picks (Edmonton gave 57, 70, and 184). The odds of any of those numbers turning in to anything at all are well stacked against. Well worth it.