Confirmed with Link: offer sheet on Ryan O'Reilly

HighLifeMan

#SnowyStrong
Feb 26, 2009
7,299
2,469
Daly would then release another statement that would not confirm that. You have to remember that when Daly made that statement he was still unaware if ROR had played over seas. That suggests to me that he was not familiar with the case specifically and was not at liberty to be making such claims.
 

Kevotron

Registered User
Jan 24, 2008
276
1
Edmonton
Daly would then release another statement that would not confirm that. You have to remember that when Daly made that statement he was still unaware if ROR had played over seas. That suggests to me that he was not familiar with the case specifically and was not at liberty to be making such claims.

So... basically your still defending Feaster, calling him brilliant and that he out smarted everybody including Bill Daly and the CBA itself eh...
do you have Jay Feaster wearing a #12 Flames jersey tattooed on your arm ?
 

Calculon

unholy acting talent
Jan 20, 2006
16,578
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Perhaps because the waiver rules regarding a player participating in a game overseas and then signing with a new NHL team hadn't changed with the new CBA, something Daly would be intimately aware of seeing as how he just finished negotiating it.
 

HighLifeMan

#SnowyStrong
Feb 26, 2009
7,299
2,469
Perhaps because the waiver rules regarding a player participating in a game overseas and then signing with a new NHL team hadn't changed with the new CBA, something Daly would be intimately aware of seeing as how he just finished negotiating it.

Maybe the spirit of the rule did not change, but as I previously mentioned the wording in the MOU is distinctly different then it was in the previous CBA agreement. That is essentially where the confusion lies, and based on his comments Daly was still unaware of the Flames position at that time.
 

HighLifeMan

#SnowyStrong
Feb 26, 2009
7,299
2,469
So... basically your still defending Feaster, calling him brilliant and that he out smarted everybody including Bill Daly and the CBA itself eh...
do you have Jay Feaster wearing a #12 Flames jersey tattooed on your arm ?

Where did I say that? stop jumping to conclusions. Obviously Calgary was not the only team that noticed this as four other teams also submitted an offer sheet. This move still came with some form of risk and I suppose you can focus in on that, but all that I am saying is that in my eyes the risk was not as great as everyone made it out to be. I just can't foresee a realistic scenario in which Calgary lost out on ROR and their draft picks.
 

Calculon

unholy acting talent
Jan 20, 2006
16,578
4,035
Error 503
Maybe the spirit of the rule did not change, but as I previously mentioned the wording in the MOU is distinctly different then it was in the previous CBA agreement. That is essentially where the confusion lies, and based on his comments Daly was still unaware of the Flames position at that time.

Which would be irrelevant if the spirit of the rule did not change. The CBA's not completely finished yet therefore basing a substantial gamble like this on the MOU is absurd. All it would take in an arbitration case is the PA and the NHL coming out and saying 'the old rules still apply as you can see in this template CBA we're working on' and that would have easily trumped the Flames claim that the wording was vague.

Bottom line is though, if you believe that Feaster and co. knew what they were doing, they were still gambling that their interpretation of the rules would overrule the leagues view. The fact that they would go ahead with the offer sheet and gamble everything without a phone call to the league clarifying the details should be enough to assure anyone of the front office's wholesale incompetence.
 

Kevotron

Registered User
Jan 24, 2008
276
1
Edmonton
Which would be irrelevant if the spirit of the rule did not change. The CBA's not completely finished yet therefore basing a substantial gamble like this on the MOU is absurd. All it would take in an arbitration case is the PA and the NHL coming out and saying 'the old rules still apply as you can see in this template CBA we're working on' and that would have easily trumped the Flames claim that the wording was vague.

Bottom line is though, if you believe that Feaster and co. knew what they were doing, they were still gambling that their interpretation of the rules would overrule the leagues view. The fact that they would go ahead with the offer sheet and gamble everything without a phone call to the league clarifying the details should be enough to assure anyone of the front office's wholesale incompetence.

Couldn't of said it better !
:yo:
 

Seedling

Tier 7 fan (ballcap)
Jul 16, 2009
6,226
30
Canada
Which would be irrelevant if the spirit of the rule did not change. The CBA's not completely finished yet therefore basing a substantial gamble like this on the MOU is absurd. All it would take in an arbitration case is the PA and the NHL coming out and saying 'the old rules still apply as you can see in this template CBA we're working on' and that would have easily trumped the Flames claim that the wording was vague.

Bottom line is though, if you believe that Feaster and co. knew what they were doing, they were still gambling that their interpretation of the rules would overrule the leagues view. The fact that they would go ahead with the offer sheet and gamble everything without a phone call to the league clarifying the details should be enough to assure anyone of the front office's wholesale incompetence.

Nail....meet head.
 

HighLifeMan

#SnowyStrong
Feb 26, 2009
7,299
2,469
Which would be irrelevant if the spirit of the rule did not change. The CBA's not completely finished yet therefore basing a substantial gamble like this on the MOU is absurd. All it would take in an arbitration case is the PA and the NHL coming out and saying 'the old rules still apply as you can see in this template CBA we're working on' and that would have easily trumped the Flames claim that the wording was vague.

Bottom line is though, if you believe that Feaster and co. knew what they were doing, they were still gambling that their interpretation of the rules would overrule the leagues view. The fact that they would go ahead with the offer sheet and gamble everything without a phone call to the league clarifying the details should be enough to assure anyone of the front office's wholesale incompetence.

Clearly we are getting no where here. ;)
At the end of the day I just don't see the need to jump down the man's throat when all of the details have yet to be released (and probably never will). Maybe I am being ignorant here, but I personally can't imagine an ENTIRE organization over looking such an important factor. They must have known what they were doing, and were certainly prepared for any circumstance that played out of the entire ordeal.

I would also like to point out that an arbitration case is a lot more complex than that (One would hope!). Calgary obviously believed they had enough to support their claims.
 

Calculon

unholy acting talent
Jan 20, 2006
16,578
4,035
Error 503
Clearly we are getting no where here. ;)
At the end of the day I just don't see the need to jump down the man's throat when all of the details have yet to be released (and probably never will). Maybe I am being ignorant here, but I personally can't imagine an ENTIRE organization over looking such an important factor. They must have known what they were doing, and were certainly prepared for any circumstance that played out of the entire ordeal.

I would also like to point out that an arbitration case is a lot more complex than that (One would hope!). Calgary obviously believed they had enough to support their claims.

I don't think it's that much of a stretch. No one, not even the league was aware of this possibility since almost no one was aware that O'Reilly had played a couple of games in the KHL after the NHL season started. The blame isn't just on the Flames, but rather the league, O'Reilly's agent and the Avalanche too. Dreger does a good job summing up how just about everyone involved in this potential disaster failed in this clip.

So for the Flames to miss out on this detail isn't that unlikely, but it is inexcusable since they were the ones risking everything. Nor can I really believe the Flames knew what they were doing all along since they couldn't even call the league to clarify the rule. They didn't even mention the possibility of this occurring to O'Reilly's agent when discussing a contract. One would think they'd at least realize their position might be contentious with that of the leagues, and there would be a possibility that O'Reilly would have to sit out for longer until everything was decided upon. But they didn't voice their concerns about that potential issue with anyone apparently . . .

But yeah, agree to disagree I guess.
 

Svenner

Registered User
Dec 2, 2008
1,195
0
Montreal, QC
Sorry but that's absurd. The only ones ruining the Flames reputation are the Flames. Having the GM coming out a guaranteeing a playoff spot or saying their biggest rival is wandering the desert only to have it blow up in his face is what makes this franchise the laughing stock of the league. The Flames didn't even know about this provision, as O'Reilly's agent confirmed:

I don't agree with Jay Feaster's comments about making the playoffs but it shows some confidence from upper management and that can do nothing but positive things to the players. Yes maybe he shouldn't of done that, but how is that such a big deal. I highly doubt people are looking back at this and saying "What was he thinking?" when the truth is they once again finished 9th and many believed that they we're going to make it as well once Cammalleri came into the picture.

'Many lawyers' confirming the Flames would have won the case? Like who? Read post 362 of this very thread to see why saying with any level of confidence the Flames would have won is patently ridiculous.

http://offsidesportsblog.blogspot.ca/

This is a simple article showing that the Flames could have a case in the argument. Obviously, the right thing to do was to contact the NHL and find out how it really works but this shows that the MOU is not very well worded and does have a loop hole that the Flames can argue for.

Yeah, you sure about that? Because Bill Daly sure seems like a solid confirmation:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor...rk-before-oreilly-offer-sheet/article9226312/

“We agree with the Flames in the sense that the entire issue has become an academic point,†NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly said in an email to The Canadian Press. “Ryan O’Reilly has signed a contract with the Colorado Avalanche and the contract has been registered. We have nothing further to say on the subject.â€

One source says he did one source says he didn't. The tsn article states Bill Daly told tsn he would have to clear waivers.. There is no quotes or video to back this up and I doubt Daly would simply come out and say that without reviewing the way they wrote up the MOU because it is in fact not exactly clear.

First of all, I wasn't happy with the offer sheet at all because for a team to risk a potential top ten pick, a pick which has a shot at first overall for a 2nd line centre is far to risky. So no, I wouldn't be bowing down to Feaster, particularly since he couldn't have pulled it off. He didn't even know about the clause.

Fair enough, but to say he didn't know about the clause is just blowing things out of proportion. He knew about the clause and he probably figured it was written in such a way that he could move around it IF somebody picked up on it.. Because clearly nobody did until the next day when the Avs already matched the offer. Something that you can criticize Feaster is why he would take such a risk without actually informing himself first.

The full level of interference by King and Edwards is unknown. Common sense suggests that they don't dictate each and every action Feaster should undertake, otherwise they'd just do the job themselves or hire some no name 'yes man' to do the paper work (like Charles Wang did with Snow) for cheap.


Can you seriously say you have no complaints with Feaster thus far and still expect to be taken with some credibility? If you haven't noticed, the team's in 14th place in the conference, has one natural centre on the roster, that being Matt Stajan, and has actually gotten worse under his tenure than when Darryl Sutter was the GM. All of this while guaranteeing playoff spots or proclaiming the Flames as contenders for a berth and maintaining the answers are in the locker-room. If you actually like the direction the Flames want to go in, then by that very rational you'd have to recognize that Feaster has failed miserably in achieving that goal and is actually doing the exact opposite of what he says he wants to do. He says he wants the Flames to contend for a playoff spot while in reality, the only they're contending for is the first overall pick.

What are you expecting really? Everyone knows that management doesn't want to rebuild. Murray Edwards even came out and said it. So I don't see how you can put this on Feaster for not rebuilding because HE didn't want to when the reality is the owners tell them what do to and they have to work with it. Feaster even said before sending the offer sheet he confronted Edwards and King to see if they we're on board so don't tell me he has the freedom to do whatever he wants. With what he's given I really don't have complaints with what he's done. This team was a disaster when Sutter left and three years later we have pretty much the same caliber team (they would be in the hunt with Kipper and Backlund) along with a much better Prospect pool. You're making it seem like im delusional to believe that when you haven't looked at all the details behind the story. I can guarantee that this team would be on the same pace they've always been if not for the lockout and some key injuries, the only reason they'd be worse is because of an aging core.

Yes we only have one natural center on the roster right now.. But you forgot to mention that Backlund is injured. And you can't say Feaster did not address this since he came with the club. He took a run at Richards and now O'Reilly. He brought in Cervenka and yes he's not playing center but that only reason is because first of all the coaching system in the KHL was much different to Hartley's. He joined in without a training camp and one day of practice before he played his first NHL game. He's making the transition from KHL to NHL and its much easier to play it on the wing. Had there been no lookout and a 3 week training we could've seen Cervenka playing center permanently right now.

I don't know if the Flames management shares your opinion with brushing this whole embarrassing saga under the rug but I wouldn't be surprised if they do. They've shown time and time again that they don't really think much of their fans and have no compunction with demeaning their intelligence.

Im not saying they do share the same opinions as me but clearly people are freaking out and blowing things out of proportion because they read and believe every single word the media tells them when they don't know whats going on internally. Feaster could get fired, but if he's not its time to put it behind you because face it. We still have the draft picks and we have the exact same assets we've had on Wednesday. Nothing has changed from that and a "loophole" in the CBA has not left me to believe that Feaster is going to start pulling some Mike Milbury trades with this team.
 

Gxgear

Registered User
Feb 5, 2012
450
0
Vancouver
It's crisis averted either way for the Flames, regardless of whose "interpretations" were correct. O'Reilly wasn't going to single-handedly take the team to the next level, is still relatively unproven to command that much money, and could just bolt at the end of the term with nothing to show for the organization aside from the lost picks.

But man, if Avs knew something about it, they could have taken the Flames for all their worth...and then some.
 

HighLifeMan

#SnowyStrong
Feb 26, 2009
7,299
2,469
It's crisis averted either way for the Flames, regardless of whose "interpretations" were correct. O'Reilly wasn't going to single-handedly take the team to the next level, is still relatively unproven to command that much money, and could just bolt at the end of the term with nothing to show for the organization aside from the lost picks.

But man, if Avs knew something about it, they could have taken the Flames for all their worth...and then some.

No he couldn't. That would be the Flames decision to make as he would still be an RFA.
 

Shawnofthedeadz

Registered User
Jan 18, 2013
1,050
110
It's crisis averted either way for the Flames, regardless of whose "interpretations" were correct. O'Reilly wasn't going to single-handedly take the team to the next level, is still relatively unproven to command that much money, and could just bolt at the end of the term with nothing to show for the organization aside from the lost picks.

But man, if Avs knew something about it, they could have taken the Flames for all their worth...and then some.

... Technically that's the same as any draft pick. Look at Justin Schultz, he chose not to sign with the ducks. They must of been pissed to lose their second round pick like that.

Plus ROR would of still been a RFA
 

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