Blue Jays Discussion: Off-Season Discussion 2022

[phillipmike]

Adam Macko, 21, SP, TOR (A+)
38.1 IP, 14.09 K/9, 4.70 BB/9, 3.99 ERA

The Blue Jays acquired Macko as half of the return for Teoscar Hernandez. A mystery injury prevented Macko from working much this season, though he did appear in the AFL. The upcoming season is his Rule 5 evaluation year which might push him toward a bullpen role. He has the stuff to start – a three-pitch repertoire of average or better offerings. The southpaw is inconsistent, often losing command of his secondary offerings. Predictably, his fastball plays down when this happens. When he’s on, he mows through low-minors hitters as evidenced by 14.09 K/9 and a 15.8 percent swinging strike rate

 

[phillipmike]

 

[phillipmike]

An ace to the NL East? Two star catchers on the move? Eight trades we want to see at the winter meetings

Slow start to the offseason? No problem -- here are the deals we would make for the Yankees, Mariners and more next week in California.

www.espn.com.au

The Toronto Blue Jays should trade one of their catchers to the ...​

Doolittle: St. Louis Cardinals

One of the surer bets of the hot stove season is that the Blue Jays will be dealing from their surplus of starting-worthy catchers (Gabriel Moreno, Danny Jansen and Alejandro Kirk), but it's unclear who will be the one to go. Moreno probably holds the most trade value and the veteran Jansen the least. So I'm splitting the middle and sending Kirk to the Cardinals to become the successor to future Hall of Famer Yadier Molina.



Kirk could step right in as St. Louis' regular backstop with Andrew Knizner behind him. Kirk not only hits well enough to DH on a regular basis, but he has the same kind of contact ability that was Molina's strength at the plate. The offense is important because if catching prospect Ivan Herrera pans out, then the Cardinals would be set at the position for years to come and the DH slot would help give them both enough at-bats.

Toronto is going to need a starting pitcher with some control in return, so the Redbirds could send lefty Matthew Liberatore along with Canadian-born outfielder Tyler O'Neill. Moving O'Neill would free up a lineup spot for fast-moving hitting prospect Jordan Walker in St. Louis while, for the Blue Jays, he'd help fill the void created by the trade of Teoscar Hernandez. It would also allow John Schneider to use Whit Merrifield more as a super-utility player than as a regular in the outfield.

Schoenfield: Cleveland Guardians

There is no doubt the Cardinals will be adding a starting catcher -- president of baseball operations John Mozeliak has repeatedly said that is the team's top objective this offseason. But he has also emphasized that defense is important, understandable for a franchise that employed Molina since 2004. That could rule out Kirk, who is OK defensively, but his bat-first profile and weight issues might make him more of a DH in the long term. I do have the Cardinals acquiring a catcher (see below) -- but not one from the Blue Jays.

For the Jays, I'm sending Jansen to the Cleveland Guardians. Cleveland's backstops hit a woeful .180/.267/.267 last season. The Guardians have also been linked to Oakland's Sean Murphy, but they also have a very good prospect ready for an opportunity in Bo Naylor, who hit .263/.392/.446 with 21 home runs (and 20 stolen bases!) across Double-A and Triple-A. The Guardians don't usually make 3-for-1 deals unless they're the ones receiving the three players, so I think that rules out Kirk, Moreno or Murphy, who will cost prospects the Guardians might not want to give up.

Jansen, however, makes sense to split time with Naylor and allow the rookie to ease into the job. Jansen has two years of team control and while he might not match the .855 OPS he put up in 2022, there is a solid platoon option here because Naylor hits left-handed. The Guardians have a wealth of pitching prospects in the upper minors, and the Blue Jays could use deep rotation depth, so I'll send right-hander Xzavion Curry to Toronto. He debuted in the majors in 2022 with two starts for Cleveland after striking out 134 in 122 innings in the upper minors, relying on a low-90s fastball that plays up because of a high arm slot and efficient spin.

That Cards deal isn’t good but I do like Liberatore. That Cleveland deal if fugly and straight up laughable.

 

[Canada4Gold]

hahahaha that Cleveland deal. Sure we'll do that, and then we'll trade Juenger for Steven Kwan because clearly you woke up on the no idea what you're doing side of the bed this morning

 

[Puckstuff]

Trade Moreno + O. Martinez + Barriea + Zeluta + maybe 1 more prospect for Burnes + Williams.
Sign Conforto.
Sign Bellinger.


Rotation: Burnes, Manoah, Gausman, Berrios, White/Kikuchi

Bullpen: Romano, Williams, Swanson, Garcia, Cimber, Bass, Mayza, Gage/Pearson/Merryweather

Lineup: 1) Springer, 2) Conforto, 3) Gurrerro, 4) Kirk, 5) Bichette, 6) Chapman, 7) Jansen/Gurriel 8) Bellinger 9) Espinal


Defence:

Conforto/Gurriel - Bellinger - Springer
Chapman - Espinal - Bichette - Gurrerro Jr. - Kirk DH
Jansen

 

[canucksfan]

 

[Discoverer]

hahahaha that Cleveland deal. Sure we'll do that, and then we'll trade Juenger for Steven Kwan because clearly you woke up on the no idea what you're doing side of the bed this morning

Yikes... it would be one thing to say "I like Curry, so if I'm the Jays I want to find a way to get him." Just saying "Jansen for Curry, done!" is something else altogether. Just over a K per inning in AAA with a 4.58 ERA and peripherals that suggest he was pretty lucky (FIP and xFIP juuuust under 5)... gross.

For the record, Baseball Trade Values has Jansen at $24.9 million in surplus value and Curry at a whopping $4.4 million. He'd make a decent third piece in a trade, though.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

It is kind of funny. Like every single one of the experts trade proposals with our catchers seem to consistently be undervaluing our side of the trades. Like at best it is a decent mostly fair trade idea. There has been a lot of egregious ones where we are getting bent over though and not a lot of the equivalent going the other way. Like people just putting a block up and don't want to recognize the sheer value someone like Kirk or Morena would have in a trade.

 

[Woodman19]

It is kind of funny. Like every single one of the experts trade proposals with our catchers seem to consistently be undervaluing our side of the trades. Like at best it is a decent mostly fair trade idea. There has been a lot of egregious ones where we are getting bent over though and not a lot of the equivalent going the other way. Like people just putting a block up and don't want to recognize the sheer value someone like Kirk or Morena would have in a trade.

Because like everything Blue Jays, there is 0 thought to what we want out of a trade. It's always about what we can provide another team to write an article. Similar to how we want to trade a catcher to the Pirates when there is virtually no reason the Pirates need one.

 

[Blitzkrug]

The winter meetings gave officially begun

 

[Zur En Arrh]

Gurriel, Kirk and a pitching prospect for Reynolds, and then sign Bellinger as well. OF of Bellinger, Reynolds and Springer would be phenomenal

Eww no. Reynolds is good but he ain't that good. I'd do Jansen for Reynolds and that's fair. Moreno and kirk are just too good. The only trade I make with kirk in it is for an ace but we already have two,we don't need it. I don't even want to trade jansen but for Reynolds straight up or with a small add i would.

 

[kb]

Was reading an article somewhere (forgotten where now) where someone suggested that since Clevinger signed with the White Sox, they mused about a Danny Jansen for Liam Hendricks and Michael Kopech trade. Grandal is coming off a rather poor season and at 34, it is unlikely for him to have a true bounceback now that he is 34. The author mentioned Kirk or Jansen, but Kirk? LOL No way....

I threw the Jansen for Hendricks and Kopech trade into the Baseball Trade Values simulator, and it was accepted. Again, this was just for a rough outline of how the trade simulator sees the value. I know it has many flaws.....

Does anyone think A) this is a reasonable trade, or B) if it is not reasonable, who would say no?

I will freely admit have never been one to fully understand how trade values are calculated. But I thought it was decent value finally for the Jays. Or am I wrong?

Please feel free to chime in on the proposal.

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

I'm not that high on Jansen but from Cleveland at minimum I want Bibee.

 

[Blitzkrug]

Was reading an article somewhere (forgotten where now) where someone suggested that since Clevinger signed with the White Sox, they mused about a Danny Jansen for Liam Hendricks and Michael Kopech trade. Grandal is coming off a rather poor season and at 34, it is unlikely for him to have a true bounceback now that he is 34. The author mentioned Kirk or Jansen, but Kirk? LOL No way....

I threw the Jansen for Hendricks and Kopech trade into the Baseball Trade Values simulator, and it was accepted. Again, this was just for a rough outline of how the trade simulator sees the value. I know it has many flaws.....

Does anyone think A) this is a reasonable trade, or B) if it is not reasonable, who would say no?

I will freely admit have never been one to fully understand how trade values are calculated. But I thought it was decent value finally for the Jays. Or am I wrong?

Please feel free to chime in on the proposal.

That almost seems like a bad deal for the Sox.

Kopech put up 2.2 WAR last year in 25 starts with relatively good peripherals with the added bonus of being under team control until 2025. Hendriks has been one of the better relievers in baseball over the last 4 or so seasons and last year was no different with a FIP just barely above 1 and a 142 ERA+ (1.7 WAR)

The only issue with this is Hendriks makes a pretty hefty chunk of change for a reliever.

Another thing i think that will hurt is the fact the league knows the Jays basically have to move a catcher and Sean Murphy is still floating out there.

That's a deal i would consider for Jansen but under no circumstances would i for Kirk.