Proposal: Nyr trade with blues (buchy)

[Robtom18]

Stl- Buchnevich 50% retained

Nyr- othmann robertson 1st 2024

Was on the nyr thread and several of thier fans were ok with this offer. To me it seems to check all three boxes top prospect, decent dman prospect and 1st 2024.

What do you guys think. I am new to forum so be nice. Lol

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[Spektre]

Robertson doesn't move the needle very much.

 

[Robtom18]

I think he would be bette than loof.

 

[Blueston]

I think he would be bette than loof.

that seems like low bar.

 

[Robtom18]

that seems like low bar.

We obviously need to draft better dmen higher up. But getting krug out and a solid #4#5 dman as a throw in whom is nhl ready. I think its a good thing. Guy isnt doing bad and has size.

I would prefer wallinder and kasper with first but othman and robertson and 1st is not bad.

Imo we just need to keep getting first to draft, cause we draft very well, and build from within.

 

[Frenzy31]

I would rather go after a better d prospect then a forward. I just don't see who that would be for NYR. I think there might be better available.

 

[Blueston]

We obviously need to draft better dmen higher up. But getting krug out and a solid #4#5 dman as a throw in whom is nhl ready. I think its a good thing. Guy isnt doing bad and has size.

I would prefer wallinder and kasper with first but othman and robertson and 1st is not bad.

Imo we just need to keep getting first to draft, cause we draft very well, and build from within.

i get that it is about maximizing return and he is 3rd piece, but he is still just a bit piece in value. do we want the top asset in buchy return to be a winger? is othmann that guy? when we look to mid-longterm organizational need it's d and c, not w. for me to want w as primary piece of return he needs to clearly be better than any of our w prospects (other than maybe snuggy). is he? or maybe a bit better and maybe not just a bit more advanced?

 

[Robtom18]

i get that it is about maximizing return and he is 3rd piece, but he is still just a bit piece in value. do we want the top asset in buchy return to be a winger? is othmann that guy? when we look to mid-longterm organizational need it's d and c, not w. for me to want w as primary piece of return he needs to clearly be better than any of our w prospects (other than maybe snuggy). is he? or maybe a bit better and maybe not just a bit more advanced?

Its hard to say i believe he is up there. Like i said i would prefer wallinder and kasper. Truth is those are the only two teams i have heard in the running. I will do some research and post what a possible return from every team that is in running and see what the forum thinks is the best.

 

[Frenzy31]

We really have no idea if he is even available or who is in the running.....

 

[Robtom18]

We really have no idea if he is even available or who is in the running.....

Just whispers. I have heard detroit nyr and vancouver. Vancouver went a different direction

 

[Brian39]

I'm not interested in that package for Buch.

Othmann is a nice prospect, but I think he's the 2nd best prospect on a team that is probably in the bottom half of prospect pools league-wide. He just made it inside Wheeler's top 50 drafted prospects this past summer (48), which I think pretty accurately reflects that he is probably in the tier just below 'top prospect.' Wing is by far our greatest organizational strength in the prospect pool and all of Stenberg, Bolduc, Neighbours, and Dean shoot left. The 3 vets under contract that could be placeholders to the next core (Schenn, Saad, and Hayes) all shoot left as well, which means that we are already going to have a bit of a tough time putting all of our lefty forward prospects in positions to succeed.

Adding to the only prospect logjam we have isn't what I want from a Buch trade unless the prospect is clearly a top prospect and Othmann doesn't get there for me.

The Rangers are currently leading their division by 4 points. Carolina has 2 games in hand on them, but even if they win those to even things up, there is a decent chance that the Rangers win that division. They aren't a lock to pick 25th or later, but there is a pretty good chance of it. I think you have to view that as a likely late-1st if you're giving them Buch without impacting their roster.

If Buch is going for a late 1st and a non-clear-top prospect, I at least need that prospect to be a D man.

 

[Snubbed4Vezina]

Any trade for Buch has to start with a 1st rounder and a D-man with top two potential. The Blues are already loaded with good forward prospects so Othmann doesn't do a whole lot for me here.

 

[simon IC]

I would rather go after a better d prospect then a forward. I just don't see who that would be for NYR. I think there might be better available.

Braden Schneider

 

[kimzey59]

Any trade for Buch has to start with a 1st rounder and a D-man with top two potential. The Blues are already loaded with good forward prospects so Othmann doesn't do a whole lot for me here.

1- Disagree that a D man needs to be the main prospect.
We'll have our 1st and whomever we trade with's 1st to put towards the defense. Combined with Lindstein, that's three really good D prospects. Add a stabilizing vet(Parayko?) and you have your future top 4.
I know we're all worried about the defense right now, but there's a very clear path towards rebuilding the defense without needing to focus on getting an NHL ready D prospect out of a Buchnevich trade. Obviously, it would be better to get a future top 4 D man; but I'm not going to shoot down a trade just on the basis of "needing a D prospect". If the right forward prospect is on the table, I'd be willing to listen.

There are some very specific traits I'd be looking for to be convinced into accepting a forward instead(starting with being a righty shot).

2- Having said that, I fully agree that Othmann doesn't do it for me. Along with Bolduc and Stenberg, he would be a completely redundant prospect. If we're accepting a forward, they need to fill an actual gap in our prospect pool. Either a bonafide Power forward or a high end playmaker(and as I said, being a righty shot would be preferable).

Short of putting Perreault on the table(and I'm absolutely sure they don't want to do that), I'm not sure the Rag's have a prospect that I'd be interested in.

 

[Xerloris]

1- Disagree that a D man needs to be the main prospect.
We'll have our 1st and whomever we trade with's 1st to put towards the defense. Combined with Lindstein, that's three really good D prospects. Add a stabilizing vet(Parayko?) and you have your future top 4.

I have to disagree with that. LD is our absolute weakest link atm and we have to take every chance we can to strengthen it. Yes, we could draft but why buy a magic bean when you could just get what you need to begin with? We don't even know if a good Dman would be available and our still yet unknown draft position.

 

[PerryTurnbullfan]

Braden Schneider

And Will Cuylle

 

[kimzey59]

I have to disagree with that. LD is our absolute weakest link atm and we have to take every chance we can to strengthen it. Yes, we could draft but why buy a magic bean when you could just get what you need to begin with? We don't even know if a good Dman would be available and our still yet unknown draft position.

Because that "magic bean" is better than anything in the Ranger's system?

Sure, if you can get a guy like Wallinder you take it.
However, the only D prospect NY has in that spectrum is Schneider; and Drury would probably be out the door before the end of the day if he made that kind of trade.

But you don't settle for a guy like Robertson because "we need a D man". You need an "A" level prospect coming back. Yes, a D man is preferrable. But I don't consider it a deal breaker if somebody comes in with a forward instead.

That's not to say that Othmann is an A level prospect, either; but I'm talking about hypothetical scenario's. Let's say Buffalo really did want to enter the fray for Buch and came in with a package centered around Noah Ostlund. I'm not going to shoot that down on the principle of "needing a D man".

The Rag's simply don't have the prospects to make a legit offer for Buch unless they're stupid enough to put Schneider or Perreault on the table.

 

[PerryTurnbullfan]

Because that "magic bean" is better than anything in the Ranger's system?

Sure, if you can get a guy like Wallinder you take it.
However, the only D prospect NY has in that spectrum is Schneider; and Drury would probably be out the door before the end of the day if he made that kind of trade.

But you don't settle for a guy like Robertson because "we need a D man". You need an "A" level prospect coming back. Yes, a D man is preferrable. But I don't consider it a deal breaker if somebody comes in with a forward instead.

That's not to say that Othmann is an A level prospect, either; but I'm talking about hypothetical scenario's. Let's say Buffalo really did want to enter the fray for Buch and came in with a package centered around Noah Ostlund. I'm not going to shoot that down on the principle of "needing a D man".

The Rag's simply don't have the prospects to make a legit offer for Buch unless they're stupid enough to put Schneider or Perreault on the table.

I would also say in our top prospect core that we lack size upfront. Meaning we have no one with above average size being a 6364 guy in our top six.

 

[Beauterham]

Any trade for Buch has to start with a 1st rounder and a D-man with top two potential. The Blues are already loaded with good forward prospects so Othmann doesn't do a whole lot for me here.

Well, it depends... If we use our own 1st and the 1st coming back in a potential Buch-trade on D-men at the draft, I wouldn't be against a forward prospect, but it all depends on what forward prospect is available. In an optimal situation I agree we'd get a really good D prospect in the trade.

 

[Snubbed4Vezina]

Because that "magic bean" is better than anything in the Ranger's system?

Sure, if you can get a guy like Wallinder you take it.
However, the only D prospect NY has in that spectrum is Schneider; and Drury would probably be out the door before the end of the day if he made that kind of trade.

But you don't settle for a guy like Robertson because "we need a D man". You need an "A" level prospect coming back. Yes, a D man is preferrable. But I don't consider it a deal breaker if somebody comes in with a forward instead.

That's not to say that Othmann is an A level prospect, either; but I'm talking about hypothetical scenario's. Let's say Buffalo really did want to enter the fray for Buch and came in with a package centered around Noah Ostlund. I'm not going to shoot that down on the principle of "needing a D man".

The Rag's simply don't have the prospects to make a legit offer for Buch unless they're stupid enough to put Schneider or Perreault on the table.

The "magic bean" may be better than anything in the Ranger's system, but all that means is that I don't really care to trade with the Rangers because they're not likely to offer a package that's intriguing enough for me.

I need that left-side D prospect that's closer to contributing to the NHL than a 2024 draft hypothetical that may or may not actually be available.

You're correct in saying there are forward prospects that could be worth trading for, but given the state of our pipeline as it is, LD is still my main focus. This team will not be good enough to compete with the best in the league again without a legitimate top-line defenseman in the fray. Buchnevich is an extremely valuable asset and my be our best chance to find that defenseman given our current assets.

 

[Snubbed4Vezina]

Well, it depends... If we use our own 1st and the 1st coming back in a potential Buch-trade on D-men at the draft, I wouldn't be against a forward prospect, but it all depends on what forward prospect is available. In an optimal situation I agree we'd get a really good D prospect in the trade.

My statement was based on what I'd require in a trade for Buchnevich before the trade deadline. An offseason trade could present other opportunities at which time, yes, a forward prospect could be a desirable return, but as of now, we're not going to know what's truly available to us in the offseason.

 

[Frenzy31]

Everyone keeps talking about LHD, but man we have nothing beyond Kessel that is a RHD in the system and the prospect we are getting wouldn't like be ready for 2 years, and we will have some needs on the right side at that time.

 

[Blueston]

Everyone keeps talking about LHD, but man we have nothing beyond Kessel that is a RHD in the system and the prospect we are getting wouldn't like be ready for 2 years, and we will have some needs on the right side at that time.

Agreed. We need top 4 ld and rd for intermediate term, even if lindstein hits and we keep parayko.

 

[kimzey59]

Everyone keeps talking about LHD, but man we have nothing beyond Kessel that is a RHD in the system and the prospect we are getting wouldn't like be ready for 2 years, and we will have some needs on the right side at that time.

Will we?
Parayko is signed until the 30-31 season.
Faulk is signed until the 27-28 season.
Kessel won't be UFA eligible until the 27-28 season.

Barring injuries, our right side is locked in for the next 3 years.
We should definitely start looking at some options now, but the left side is the bigger issue(Krug and Leddy's NTC's roll back in the summer of '25 and neither one has done anything to justify keeping).

 

[Frenzy31]

Faulk seems to be slowing down. And it is already 2024. 2027 is only 3 years away, about the time a drafted player will be hitting the AHL.

Granted, we get a prospect that is nhl ready next year….. I am just pointing out a fact that we sometimes conflate team issues now with what could be a team issue in 3 years.

We have:
Loof
Lindstein,
Buchinger
Burns
Fischer

Right side
Kessel