Proposal: NYR-BUF

[Der Jaeger]

I would hope that the Sabres learned their lesson from the ROR trade about dealing a top center for a package of less than top shelf pieces.

If any team shows an interest in Eichel and their top 5 or so young players/prospects are off the table, that should end the conversation right there.

Bingo. If you acquire Eichel, and don't have the "I'm glad we got him but wish we didn't trade X player," then it won't happen.

Adams learned the lesson from the ROR trade. He's not trading a battleship for row boats, or even cruisers.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

And I am responding that the idea that he will sit or jump to the KHL is silly.

It wasn't my idea....

 

[GAGLine]

I would hope that the Sabres learned their lesson from the ROR trade about dealing a top center for a package of less than top shelf pieces.

If any team shows an interest in Eichel and their top 5 or so young players/prospects are off the table, that should end the conversation right there.

The problem with the ROR trade wasn't that the players they got back weren't top shelf, it's that they were bottom shelf. There are a lot of good players on the shelves in between. Buffalo needs as many good players as they can get, and not good-in-3-years players, but good-now players.

 

[Jim Bob]

The problem with the ROR trade wasn't that the players they got back weren't top shelf, it's that they were bottom shelf. There are a lot of good players on the shelves in between. Buffalo needs as many good players as they can get, and not good-in-3-years players, but good-now players.

Thompson was not anywhere near the Blues top young player or prospect. Sabres fans were hoping for guys like Thomas or Parayko in the ROR trade. Thompson was way down the list.

We all knew that Berglund & Sobotka were cap dumps.

Saying the top shelf of Rangers young players and prospects are off the table for Eichel is the ROR trade all over again. Hopefully Adams knows better than to go down that road.

 

[Stickpucker]

Sabres should get one of NYR goalies back in this deal.

 

[TGWL]

not disputing your assessment.

In theory
Buch is quality scoring asset mid 20s will have 5ish prime yrs, 4 are ufa after upcoming season which is still rfa but w/arb elig

Eichel is better quality scoring asset another 5 yrs on his deal which is already at ufa $.

Again, not advocating Eich to Rangers esp since we have no room to deal w/Trouba's 8per which is part of long term equation.

As a theoretical exercise,
since Buch is obv worth a 1st +
and the above profile is a reality,
using Buch as a core piece to which NYR would add, not Kravtsov, Kakko, etc, that would facilitate a productive discussion if a deal were to be had.

They don't want Buch as one of the main piece/one of the main pieces is what I was getting at.

 

[JimmyG89]

I would hope that the Sabres learned their lesson from the ROR trade about dealing a top center for a package of less than top shelf pieces.

If any team shows an interest in Eichel and their top 5 or so young players/prospects are off the table, that should end the conversation right there.

Vitaly Kravtsov is easily one of their top 5 assets. Same goes for Nils Lundkvist.

Your issue is that you are not getting assets that are already on an NHL team that are contributing to their success or will be the main focal point of their success for a long time. A team that is primed to take a step in the direction of cup contender isn't moving those pieces out. Buffalo is already a dumpster fire. Nothing immediately is putting it out either.

Adding multiple pieces to a team might prevent them from rolling out the likes of Riley Sheahan, Cody Eakin, Tobias Reider, and Curtis Lazar in your lineup at the same time, all while paying Kyle Okposo and Jeff Skinner $15M or having to trade for a 36 year old Eric Staal. You're not getting a 19 year old #1 pick or a 20 year old #2 pick for Eichel. This would have been like asking for Eichel or Sam Reinhart when they were just drafted in exchange for Taylor Hall when he was on the Oilers. Your ask has no precedence of happening prior in the league.

 

[Jim Bob]

Vitaly Kravtsov is easily one of their top 5 assets. Same goes for Nils Lundkvist.

Your issue is that you are not getting assets that are already on an NHL team that are contributing to their success or will be the main focal point of their success for a long time. A team that is primed to take a step in the direction of cup contender isn't moving those pieces out. Buffalo is already a dumpster fire. Nothing immediately is putting it out either.

Adding multiple pieces to a team might prevent them from rolling out the likes of Riley Sheahan, Cody Eakin, Tobias Reider, and Curtis Lazar in your lineup at the same time, all while paying Kyle Okposo and Jeff Skinner $15M or having to trade for a 36 year old Eric Staal. You're not getting a 19 year old #1 pick or a 20 year old #2 pick for Eichel. This would have been like asking for Eichel or Sam Reinhart when they were just drafted in exchange for Taylor Hall when he was on the Oilers. Your ask has no precedence of happening prior in the league.

You can't say Kravtsov and Lundkvist are in their top 5 of young players/prospects while also saying young players/prospects like Fox, Kakko, Laf, & Shesterkin are off the table.

The fact that those guys are all off the table is the point I'm making. You are going down the list to lower tier players to put a package together and that is the kind of thing the Sabres should avoid at all costs.

 

[bernmeister]

I understand your argument about blue chip prospects on elcs thoroughly. I think you are extremely infatuated with the idea of having an impact player making less than one million against the cap that you are forgetting to assess whether or not they are making an impact. Kaapo Kakko does not produce at a rate greater than an older player making the same amount. Isn’t Blackwell producing more than him? If Kakko was a 20 goal scorer, your argument would make a lot more sense. With all that being said, I think your value of Kakko is clouded by your infatuation with elcs. He is a great prospect, shows some signs of a budding star. He isn’t close to being the impact you want from him. At least 2-3 years away from that in my opinion, which means you’d be nearing the end of the Panarin era.

If salary is the issue, someone else has suggested sending back Deangelo and Smith to even out the salaries.

thank you for constructive, obective feedback.
that said, we disagree.
Kappo got here as a teenager, and was not fully prepared for full NHL season, hit the wall. Also, needed to learn the ropes and did not play w/best talent.

KK will not take "2-3" more years.
Mark my words.
I am not saying KK will be a star immediately in all situations.
If they listen to me, I am saying w/correct linemates he can thrive.

I want KK as physical driver of play at LW, w/Krav at C and Panarin at RW.

I trust breadman to shepherd them.

They go there, and we get good results, mark my words.

 

[Satanphonehome]

I'm not the one demanding that you accept our offer. As I said, don't like what we are offering, trade him elsewhere or keep him. Trying to prove that Eichel is worth your demands by creating false analogies isn't going to change our minds.

Who are you talking to? What demands have I made?

 

[GAGLine]

Who are you talking to? What demands have I made?

You've demanded we answer your BS questions, lol.

It's very simple. We aren't going to offer what you want for Eichel. Stop trying to convince us that we should.

 

[bernmeister]

... I suspect that Jack Eichel is well-regarded enough around the league that some team would give up a better asset than Kakko or Chytil for him. If the Rangers are unwilling or unable to offer a better asset, I doubt there is a deal to be made.

... All I want to know is, given the choice: would you take Fox, or would you take a package of Chytil, Kakko and Strome?

In the short term Fox is worth more; long term remains to be seen. But that is irrelevant.
Rangers have zero impetus to make a deal unless it is advantageous.
BUF has zero reason to deal unless Eich gives no choice.
IF IF IF that happens, then how pushy about where he wants to go, and what that location can/can not afford to do [not only assets surrendered, but cap, etc.] becomes a factor.

Happy to give value of four 1sts +
But it will be in currency NYR is comfortable with.

And again, umpteenth time, NYR should not look at Eich until Trouba's 8m is dealt.

 

[bernmeister]

They don't want Buch as one of the main piece/one of the main pieces is what I was getting at.

I got you and I agree w/you, that is not what they want.

I am saying given the theoretical I identified, it is not so wild to say use Buch as a base worth a solid first +, and have a lesser F w/5 yrs of prime at less cost be your base vs Eich, also 5 yrs prime coming up at more cost.

Then add mutually acceptable min 3 more assets of 1st value.

But there is too much gap atm on what is mutu. acc.

 

[Satanphonehome]

You've demanded we answer your BS questions, lol.

It's very simple. We aren't going to offer what you want for Eichel. Stop trying to convince us that we should.

A question is not BS because you don't like it, and I'm not sure how asking a question is making a demand.
I don't want "you" to offer "me" anything for Eichel and I have not tried to convince "you" of anything.

I was curious if Ranger fans would accept a similar offer to the OP's for one of their best assets.
I think I got my answer.

 

[EK392000]

Not sure if this was addressed to me, but to judge Kakko on what he has produced to date is just silly. I'd happily keep him and give up Blackwell, if you prefer.

It’s fair to judge his production relative to his cap hit within the context of an argument that claims blue chip prospect on elcs are impact players on a budget and are priceless.

Look at Pasta for example. He makes 6.6 M against the cap and plays like a 10 M player. Bern covets those elcs because he thinks, which to be fair can be true sometimes, players on elcs can play above their salary. Matthews made $925,000 and scored 40 in his rookie season. McDavid was just above ppg in the first year of his elc and then way above ppg for the remaining two. Kakko does not produce at that level. So the argument that his value is increased because he’s on an elc is invalid. He still needs to grow, and I think he’ll be great once he does though.

 

[smoneil]

Why are you quoting me? I never said the Rangers should trade Laf and Fox for Eichel, nor did i say Kakko was a bust. Personally, I like Kakko as a prospect. Kid came in too early and had way too many expectations placed on his shoulders as an 18 y.o. playing his first year of north american hockey in the NHL. It is a situation where very few teenagers can actually succeed, let alone excel. Given that he just turned 20, and is showing improvement and holding his own, I think he is going to be fine. Rangers definitely should not trade him now while his perceived value is down. He may never develop into a superstar, but he's young enough and has the tools to possibly get there in a couple of years.

I only posted to call out Smoniel for saying Eichel is likely the problem with Buffalo. He doesn't believe Eichel is a "true" 1st line center. Makes me wonder if he has ever even watched him play. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but his opinion on Eichel is kinda nuts.

My opinion sure sounds nuts when you substitute what I actually wrote for the bolded garbage above.

There's a difference between "not being part of the problem" and "being part of the solution." Most NHL players exist somewhere between those two extremes. To get the big money and the huge trade haul, you need to be part of the solution. I don't think Eichel is there for the copious reasons that Sabres fans keep ignoring because it's easier for them to insult me or put words in my mouth.

I used the 1st line vs "true first line" debates as a comparison to explain the difference I saw between guys like Mackinnon, Matthews, McDavid, Crosby and a guy like Eichel. They are all "franchise players" but the first four are "true" franchise players. Not every team HAS a franchise player, for what it's worth (even with the Rangers, I'd say Panarin is right on the line, and he's even a level above Eichel). At no point did I say that Eichel was not a real first line center.

I might add another category to the Eichel thread drinking game--every time a Buffalo fan throws up a straw man or misrepresents what you say rather than actually addressing your points, take a drink.

 

[smoneil]

You can't say Kravtsov and Lundkvist are in their top 5 of young players/prospects while also saying young players/prospects like Fox, Kakko, Laf, & Shesterkin are off the table.

The fact that those guys are all off the table is the point I'm making. You are going down the list to lower tier players to put a package together and that is the kind of thing the Sabres should avoid at all costs.

Just a point of logic, as I still don't want the Rangers to trade for him, but you do realize that "top 5 prospects" is an arbitrary term, right? One team's #6 prospect could likely be another team's top prospect. The Rangers have spent the last 3+ years acquiring and hoarding extra 1st round picks. They have one of if not the best prospect pool in the league. Just because one team might have pieces from its top 5 available, that doesn't mean that those pieces are any better than pieces in the Rangers top 6-10. The same is true for other teams with deep prospect pools, like L.A.

 

[RickChartraw]

thank you for constructive, obective feedback.
that said, we disagree.
Kappo got here as a teenager, and was not fully prepared for full NHL season, hit the wall. Also, needed to learn the ropes and did not play w/best talent.

KK will not take "2-3" more years.
Mark my words.
I am not saying KK will be a star immediately in all situations.
If they listen to me, I am saying w/correct linemates he can thrive.

I want KK as physical driver of play at LW, w/Krav at C and Panarin at RW.

I trust breadman to shepherd them.

They go there, and we get good results, mark my words.

why are the rangers moving kakko and panarin to their off wings?

 

[Off Sides]

I think Buffalo should keep Eichel. He has 5 years left and he is good, that is two of the major things Buffalo needs more of on their roster.

 

[BowieSabresFan]

My opinion sure sounds nuts when you substitute what I actually wrote for the bolded garbage above.

There's a difference between "not being part of the problem" and "being part of the solution." Most NHL players exist somewhere between those two extremes. To get the big money and the huge trade haul, you need to be part of the solution. I don't think Eichel is there for the copious reasons that Sabres fans keep ignoring because it's easier for them to insult me or put words in my mouth.

I used the 1st line vs "true first line" debates as a comparison to explain the difference I saw between guys like Mackinnon, Matthews, McDavid, Crosby and a guy like Eichel. They are all "franchise players" but the first four are "true" franchise players. Not every team HAS a franchise player, for what it's worth (even with the Rangers, I'd say Panarin is right on the line, and he's even a level above Eichel). At no point did I say that Eichel was not a real first line center.

I might add another category to the Eichel thread drinking game--every time a Buffalo fan throws up a straw man or misrepresents what you say rather than actually addressing your points, take a drink.

You really haven't made a point worth taking seriously yet. You're just spouting off, at length, about your very biased opinion.

 

[broc]

NYR fans have champagne taste, while offering forth a beer budget.

 

[RickChartraw]

NYR fans have champagne taste, while offering forth a beer budget.

I think, and it's just my opinion, why gut a team for Eichel.

He hasn't been able to bring a bad team to the playoffs in his career, yet.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I'll take the ppg type center and NYR can keep their Kakko bust and Chytil nonsense.
The we want your best player but won't give you our best PROSPECT nonsense is old.
Just move on. You don't want Eichel that's cool. I don't want your sloppy seconds and we all live normal lives. Buffalo is better with Eichel than without despite the nonsense bitter people want to post in here. It's strange to me Ranger's fans think they are in the driver's seat regarding this. Buffalo doesn't need to move Eichel....

Why would you need our best prospect? We don't play in the same division as Buffalo. Is the goal of your GM to weaken the Rangers or make Buffalo as good as possible?

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Sabres should get one of NYR goalies back in this deal.

Posts like this are great.

There's a huge difference in value between Shestyorkin and Georgiyev. I hope you know that.

We'd probably give Georgiyev away at this point for nothing because the contract is bad for a guy who isn't good. Shestyorkin is off limits in this discussion. He's not being traded.

 

[Dust]

Why would you need our best prospect? We don't play in the same division as Buffalo. Is the goal of your GM to weaken the Rangers or make Buffalo as good as possible?

I think it's a good bet that Eichel is gonna return a teams top prospect. If a team isn't willing to give that up, they probably aren't serious about acquiring said player.